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    • We need to see the actual document from the IAS where it is written - "The Operator's evidence shows no payment for the Appellant's vehicle, or anything similar. It does show two payments for the same registration in quick succession. I would take a reasonable guess, based on the circumstances described, that the person paying has paid for the registration of the person they assisted again." You can't just type it up yourself. At the hearing in July or August or whenever the judge will have two Witness Statements. One from Bank's director says you never made a second appeal. You say you did make a second appeal and the IAS concluded that payment was made. The judge will immediately twig that either you or the director is lying.  But who? Fail to show the documentation form the IAS and instead just produce something you've typed yourself will make it look like you just made up the appeal and you are lying and you will lose the case. Please let us see what the IAS adjudicator sent.
    • I used to have a retail outlet in London selling my husband's photography.  We also had a co-op with staff so they weren't directly employed by me, but I paid for the other overheads etc.  When my husband died, I carried on as usual for a while but then I became ill and moved quite far away so logistically was becoming very difficult.  I came to an arrangement (verbal) with one of the guys I trusted, that I would send him the images to print and sell as normal, and I wouldn't take any money, as a short term solution until I got back on my feet and worked out the best way to do things. He would pay all the  rent, insurance etc... Over a year later, not able to give things away for free anymore,  I drew up a contract as a wholesale agreement, so I would get everything printed and sent to him and I would invoice his for what he ordered. I noticed form the beginning that he wasn't ordering enough or frequently enough to be making any money, and was suspicious he was doing his own orders on the sly and ordering just enough from me to keep my happy.  I checked with my printer, which I've been with for 20 years, and he sad he wasn't getting orders for my images from anyone else. I emailed a few other printers to ask them to keep a look out for some images but I soon realised this would be impossible to police.  The only option really would be to buy a print from him and check the stamp on the back of it.  I finally managed to get hold of on the prints on sale, and sure enough, he did not order it through me.   In the contract he signed in 2022 it explicitly states that he must destroy all files I had previously sent him etc etc so e is in breach of that.  When I drew up the contract, I was careful to make sure it was legally binding, but before I let rip at him, I need to know where I stand.  The contract is here: PARTIES This WHOLESALE AGREEMENT (“Agreement”) is made effective as of 30th June, 2022, by and between ############################## The Supplier and the Client, collectively referred to as the "Parties," hereby agree to the following terms: TERMS AND CONDITIONS SALES OF GOODS The Supplier agrees to provide the following goods to the Client (“Goods”): Description of Goods ################################# Doc ID: 3d54c1d336d8780243801e0e068ebd33114b088b BOTH PARTIES AGREE: The Client purchases the Goods through the Supplier directly, and agrees to delete/destroy any previously held digital images (Goods) owned by the Supplier, and agrees not to use any such files for monetary gain, outside of this agreement, either directly or through a third party from immediate effect of this agreement. The Client purchases the other materials necessary for resale of the Goods independently of this agreement. The Client shall have exclusive rights for resale of Goods at ###########, and also with permission, as a retailer of the Goods elsewhere, provided that there is no conflict of interest between the Supplier and the Client. The Client is free to decide their own retail prices, for the Goods. The Supplier shall use #####  to provide the printed Goods on Fujifilm Crystal Archive paper, with Lustre finish, and will not use any other Printer unless #### cease to trade, without prior approval from the Client. The Supplier shall not impose restrictions on size or frequency of orders made by the Client. The prices provided by the Supplier shall not increase for a minimum of 3 years, unless the prices of the raw materials rise, in which case the client will be informed immediately. Any discounts/promotional prices of raw materials shall be passed on to the Client by the Supplier, and the invoice will show adjustments for this, as well as credit for return postage of any damaged goods. This agreement can be terminated by the Client without notice; the Supplier must give notice of no less than 90 days, unless the terms of the agreement are breached, in which case, the agreement can be terminated with immediate effect. PAYMENT Orders must be paid for upon receipt of invoice, via Bank transfer: ######### Doc ID: 3d54c1d336d8780243801e0e068ebd33114b088b DELIVERY AND INSPECTIONS All orders received by 12.00am (midnight) shall be processed by the Supplier the following working day and delivery of order shall arrive in accordance with the Royal Mail schedule, or DPD, should express delivery be requested. The Client shall be liable for the delivery charge which shall be added to the invoice. The Goods will be delivered to the address specified by the Client. The Client shall be provided with order tracking, and should any problems arise with the ordering system or the couriers (Royal Mail, DPD), the Client shall be informed without delay of any such issues. The Client will inspect the Goods and report any defects or damage to the Goods in transit as soon as possible upon receipt of Goods, and will retain damaged Goods for return to Supplier for refund/replacement. GENERAL PROVISIONS CONFIDENTIALITY The prices of the Goods and other information contained in this Agreement is confidential and will not be disclosed by either party unless with prior written consent of the other party. INDEMNIFICATION The Client indemnifies the Supplier from any claims, liabilities, and expenses made by any third party vendors or customers of the Client. GOVERNING LAW This Agreement will be governed by and construed in accordance with UK Law. ACCEPTANCE Both parties understand and accept the wholesale arrangement stipulated under this Agreement. Doc ID: 3d54c1d336d8780243801e0e068ebd33114b088b IN WITNESS WHEREOF, each of the Parties has executed this Wholesale Agreement as of the day and year set forth above.   Signed by us both electronically.   I haven't broached any of this yet, and I am looking for some advice about what action to take.  The main issue I've got is that he has still go those images.  If I terminate the contract, I will need to know that he no longer has those images and I can't think of a bulletproof way to do this. I'm thinking I might tell him I will continue with the contract but ask for a  sum in damages and say that if I find out he's still doing it down the line I will terminate the contract and sue him for damages. The damages side of things I'm not sure how it would work as he is self employed, and I'm positive he doesn't declare all of his earnings to HMRC, in order to find out how much I have lost, would the court demand to go through his tax self assessments?  I'm not sure how to proceed with this, I don't want to lose that place as an outlet as it is in a prime spot in London, which is why I let him have those images in the first place as I would have had to pull out altogether at that point.  I am regretting it somewhat now though.  Please help.
    • I cannot locate anything in my paper work that states 2 payments were made? Perhaps you could point this out? In reply from IAS it states "The ticketing data has been attached" nothing was sent to me. I made a response to the IAS all this was done online
    • Thanks again for your responses. The concern I have here, is that freeholder of the land (a company, who presumably would have been the ones to have initially instructed PPM to manage the parking here), will have proof of exactly how long the vehicle was on site for, as the driver was meeting operatives from that company on a separate matter. On this basis, if the matter was to get to court, I feel all the other technicalities about signage, size of signage/font, lack of start/finish times, will not be enough to have any case dropped? This PCN was brought up to the freeholder but they have advised that PPM will not waive this charge. 
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IMHO I dont think you will here anymore from anybody on this, even the police; it will all go very quiet. any meaningful response would cost money ( time ) and thats not the game they are in.

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Letter from Primark of 26th May

 

"We refer to ....

 

As you will appreciate, your correspondence appears to relate to an event which you state involved your wife, xxx yyy, and as such, I am sure you will appreciate it is not appropriate for us to respond to your correspondence without the authority of xxx yyy.

 

What we can say, however, is that primark take all issues raised seriously and consider them carefully.

 

We would be delighted to respond further, once we have the appropriate authority from xxx yyy.

 

We look forward to hearing from you and would like to thank you for taking the time to correspond with us.

 

Yours sincerely

 

Manager Legal Services

 

................

 

This has been appropriately replied to.

 

.............

 

Maybe a standard reply to RLP should be:

 

 

I refer to your letter of ...

 

As you will appreciate, your correspondence appears to relate to an event which you state involved Boots / Primark / ... , and as such, I am sure you will appreciate it is not appropriate for us to respond to your correspondence without the authority of Boots / Primark / ... .

 

What I can say, however, is that I take all issues raised seriously and consider them carefully.

 

I would be delighted to respond further, once I have the appropriate authority from Boots / Primark / ... , and an unlimited liability indemnity from Boots / Primark / ... , covering all actions by RLP in this and other cases with any party both in The UK and elsewhere.

 

I look forward to hearing from you and would like to thank you for taking the time to correspond with me.

 

Yours sincerely

 

........

 

 

Letter from Police of 28th May.

 

I acknowledge your request for a Court hearing in respect of the above-mentioned Penalty Notice, and would advise you that the necessary arrangements will now be made.

 

The Penalty Notice will be referred to the issuing borough for review. Any statement of mitigation that you submitted or wish to submit to them will receive due consideration.

 

Once a decision as to whether to prosecute or not has been made, you will be notified by letter or alternatively receive a summons from the Court.

 

yours sincerely

 

Penalty Notice fro Disorder Section.

 

..................

 

 

Nothing from RLP

Edited by hwilliams
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Yes a nice standard reply letter to RLP .....can you clarify as to whether this would be letter Number 1 or 2 ?

Its just to assist RLPs filing systems for speedily locating queries.

I think it may demonstrate a measure of efficiency and user friendly management-and may in particular assist them to find real basis and lawful justification of their actions.

 

Hold fire for now tho-we need to check with ACPO that any letter re-drafts meet with their approval !!

Have a happy and prosperous 2013 by avoiiding Payday loans. If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.

Advice offered by Martin3030 is not supported by any legal training or qualification.Members are advised to use the services of fully insured legal professionals when needed.

 

 

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  • 1 month later...

Update:

 

Good news and bad news.

 

Primark have dropped all action

 

"Primark will forward instructions to RLP to request that they cease recovery action. Furthermore Primark are pleased to confrim that XXX is welcome to return to our stores and we trust will enjoy shopping in our stores on an ongoing basis. We must make it clear that Primark Stores Limited now consider that Primark's involvement in this matter to be enirely at an end."

 

Great stuff.

 

Ah but she has since received a summons to appear before the magistrates court.

 

On ... at ... without lawful excuse, attempted to damage earrings to the value of £2.94 belonging to Primark, Oxford Street, London intending to destroy or damage such property contrary to section 1(1) of the Criminal Attempts Act 1981.

 

Gosh!

 

She is now being accused by the Police / CPS of thought crime under catch-all legislation more frequently used in connection with anti-terrorism operations and anti-social behaviour.

 

Recall she was initially accused of theft.

 

Then given a penalty notice for £80 for "causing damage worth £3.00"

 

Now formally accused of "attempt to damage to the value of £2.94"

 

I am going to defend it myself. Bring it on.

 

Defence Points

 

1. Why has the amount changed? The value of the goods has changed from £3.00 to £2.94.

 

2. The Penalty Notice referred to 2 set (sic) of earings (sic). Is that one set or two sets.? What colour were the earrings? How many in each packet? Let's see them in court.

 

3. How is it possible to attempt to and fail to damage or destroy £3.00 earrings? She was not interrupted from checking and examining the earrings and was stopped 30 minutes later outside the store after paying for goods.

 

4. I have 56 photos showing open goods on the racks and floor of Primark. I will need a projector system to show the court the photos.

 

5. She will need an interpreter supplied by the court otherwise call for an adjournment.

 

6. I will need their evidence in advance otherwise call for an adjournment.

 

7. Primark have examined the evidence and have dropped the case and moreover have welcomed her back to shop on an ongoing basis.

 

All this hassle all round for possibly thinking about opening a packet worth £2.94 at Primark.

 

Beware that the same legislation could apply if you read a newspaper or magazine in a newsagent or try something on in any shop in the UK. Or sit on a sofa or bed in a furniture store. Or spill some food on a restaurant tablecloth.

 

Clearly the Police and Crown Prosecution Service and Courts have a lot of spare time.

 

Any suggestions re defence?

Edited by hwilliams
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Looks like the defence is already well covered.

Its staggering that the CPS have given the go for this...but obv they are not aware of the defence you are able to put over...if they was I cant see how they would be wanting to push it.

Have a happy and prosperous 2013 by avoiiding Payday loans. If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.

Advice offered by Martin3030 is not supported by any legal training or qualification.Members are advised to use the services of fully insured legal professionals when needed.

 

 

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Is it wise to let them know about Primark at this point ?

I mean sending them a copy of the letter ?

It could open a can of worms-I would sit on it.

Have a happy and prosperous 2013 by avoiiding Payday loans. If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.

Advice offered by Martin3030 is not supported by any legal training or qualification.Members are advised to use the services of fully insured legal professionals when needed.

 

 

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Hi

Now I am a novice here but can you contact the CPS not just to inform them of Primark's current stance in the latest letter but also to prepare your defence under the Data Protection Act request access to the case file? I am sure that JonCris will know whether that is possible.

How on earth can CPS justify that this would be in the public's interest - what a waste of money and distress for you both!

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I am guessing that no matter how welcome Primark claim you would be back in their stores - you will never want to give them your custom again!

I feel so sorry that for the vast majority of the public who do not know what the little "civil recovery" signs mean on the shop windows - they don't realize the danger they are in when entering a store - honestly, after my own experience, I don't ever want to shop again! When I do go into a store I get the attention of a store assistant and insist that they go round with me and pick out whatever I need to buy - they think I am mad but it is how paranoid I have become.

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I think you are meaning advance disclosure ?

Have a happy and prosperous 2013 by avoiiding Payday loans. If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.

Advice offered by Martin3030 is not supported by any legal training or qualification.Members are advised to use the services of fully insured legal professionals when needed.

 

 

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Right of audience ?

Is this a legal term Pat ....?

Have a happy and prosperous 2013 by avoiiding Payday loans. If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.

Advice offered by Martin3030 is not supported by any legal training or qualification.Members are advised to use the services of fully insured legal professionals when needed.

 

 

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ok thanks

Have a happy and prosperous 2013 by avoiiding Payday loans. If you are sent a private message directing you for advice or support with your issues to another website,this is your choice.Before you decide,consider the users here who have already offered help and support.

Advice offered by Martin3030 is not supported by any legal training or qualification.Members are advised to use the services of fully insured legal professionals when needed.

 

 

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He can represent the accused in court

 

A McKenzie friend assists a litigant in person in a common law court.

This person does not need to be legally qualified. The crucial point is that litigants in person are entitled to have assistance, lay or professional, unless there are exceptional circumstances. Their role was set out most clearly in the eponymous 1970 case McKenzie v. McKenzie[1] Although this role applies in the jurisdiction of England and Wales, it is regarded as having its origins in common law and hence has been adopted in practice in other common law jurisdictions such as Australia, Canada, New Zealand and the USA. The role should be distinguished from that of an amicus curiae, a "friend of the court" who provides information for the benefit of the court.

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The Scottish Parliament is at this time being petitioned to allow McKenzie friends which is a bit ironic don't you think about the only place on the planet where the practice is presently disallowed is the place from which McKenzie probably came

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hwilliams PLEASE get in touch

 

In the meantime make no admissions also contact the CPS & offer to send them a copy of Primarks letter dropping all civil action AND inviting her to shop there again

 

I suspect it's a junior CPS counsel who needs some court experience & that's why they are going ahead with this nonsense

 

How do you want me to get in touch, JonCris?

 

MPS & CPS & court personnel involved emailed with all paperwork in this matter copy to Attorney General & Solicitor General suggesting to them that the case is likely to bring the CPS into disrepute.

 

Thanks for the reference to McKenzie Friend.

 

I will use the services of the Duty Solicitor getting there early to brief him or her. I can't justify running up a legal bill of hundreds or even thousands of pounds.

 

But I fear that both the Duty Solicitor and the CPS Counsel will be fresh faced pimply graduates.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Litigant_in_person

 

This all seems like a device to generate fees and expenses for the legal profession.

 

However, the entry in wikipedia suggests courts are biased against litigants in person and the court procedure is used by lawyers (nods, winks, first names) against non lawyers.

 

Looks like a McKenzie Friend does not have a right of audience.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McKenzie_friend#What_a_McKenzie_Friend_cannot_do

Edited by hwilliams
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Is it wise to let them know about Primark at this point ?

I mean sending them a copy of the letter ?

It could open a can of worms-I would sit on it.

 

A bit late as I have sent it to the CPS.

 

But what is your reasoning?

 

I seek to demonstrate to the court they we have been very reasonable in good time.

Edited by hwilliams
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Just ordered a couple of books on Advocacy from Amazon and also enrolled on a 1 day Advocacy course.

 

i would rather spend the money on self-training rather than pay fines or lawyers.

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