Invalid Default Notices

[pumpytums]

Cosalts DN is fatally flawed anyway they have stated that 14 days are from the date shown not the "date of service" both are still wrong though.

 

Link to DN

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/show-post/post-2809246.html

 

I believe they actually terminated on the 19th which should have been the remedy date if they had done things correctly.

 

Pumpytums

[means2anend]

just been re reading s87/8

 

i wonder how many creditors comply with s88 (4) (a) and supply an uop to date notice of arrears with the DN as this section requires!!

 

 

Yep!

 

Thats a point I put to Annabelle7 on another thread!

[brooooooooooce]

I'm not sure if this has been addressed yet,but if you have submitted a CCA request,the OC defaults on that request.....and in the meantime they send you a default notice for not paying anything(which you are perfectly entitled not to do until a valid agreement is produced) and then terminate the account,are they guilty of unlawful recision?

 

also,if the account was intitially defaulted some years ago,the issue of a second default notice could be seen as being invalid in and of itself,since the rule says only 1 default per account?

 

'...which you are perfectly entitled not to do until a valid agreement is produced...'

 

Just to avoid confusing people, that sentence isn't true. The CCA does not give a debtor the right to stop paying a creditor whilst an account is in dispute or in default of a s78 request. In those circumstances if the DN and TN were compliant they would be within their rights to and it would not be an unlawful repudiation.

 

Not sure about the 2nd paragraph. Pretty sure a creditor can re-issue a DN provided they haven't terminated or asked for full repayment (and you've accepted the termination).

[vint1954]

They can only issue one default notice, unless the original DN was satisfied or partially satisfied. If not then they can only update the original.

[brooooooooooce]

They can only issue one default notice, unless the original DN was satisfied or partially satisfied. If not then they can only update the original.

 

What if they originally issue a defective DN, with, for example, insufficient time to rectify. How do they then make that compliant?

[Dotty50]

Hi Further to my previous post, here is the DN again minus some details which I had missed!

 

I realise it is invalid, but may be useful on here for reference.

TERMINATION NOTICE & DN - with deletions.pdf

[vint1954]

What if they originally issue a defective DN, with, for example, insufficient time to rectify. How do they then make that compliant?

Well they cannot, so it would still stand so long as the notice was not satisfied in any way by you.

[vint1954]

Hi Further to my previous post, here is the DN again minus some details which I had missed!

 

I realise it is invalid, but may be useful on here for reference.

Well that one could never be complient Dotty. Dated 22nd April, earliest possible service date is the 26th if sent first class, therefore earliest rectification date is 10th May.

 

How was it posted?

[vint1954]

Lso the DN is supposed to be a stand alone document not an attachment. The DN is not dated.

 

Sit tight and wait for the termination notice or the demand for full ballance.

[frettful38]

I have received a DN from my lender this morning. It is dated the 28 April 2010, the envelope that it arrived in is dated the 29th April 2010 and I received it on the 30 April 2010.

 

Any advice please on what I should do would be appreciated please.

 

Edited May 2, 2010 by frettful38

[emandcole]

I have received a DN from my lender this morning. It is dated the 28 April 2010, the envelope that it arrived in is dated the 29th April 2010 and I received it on the 30 April 2010.

 

Any advice please on what I should do would be appreciated please.

 

http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/qq223/sophiak_bucket/BlemainDefaultNotice.jpg

 

Sweet. It's invalid. Within 15 business days? What's all that about?

 

Keep it safe and wait for them to demand the full balance, either with an actual termination of agreement letter or by inference, eg a DCA sends you a snooty letter demanding all of the money 'or else'.

 

It's not even in the prescribed format and although it clearly relates to a mortgage as opposed to section 87 type credit card stuff they still need to give you the right amount of time, clearly specified, to provide remedy.

 

Your lucky day Frettful

[Dotty50]

Well that one could never be complient Dotty. Dated 22nd April, earliest possible service date is the 26th if sent first class, therefore earliest rectification date is 10th May.

 

How was it posted?

 

Hi Vint,

 

It was Royal Mail 2nd class, but I didn't receive it until yesterday!

[middenmess]

I have received a DN from my lender this morning. It is dated the 28 April 2010, the envelope that it arrived in is dated the 29th April 2010 and I received it on the 30 April 2010.

 

Any advice please on what I should do would be appreciated please.

 

http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/qq223/sophiak_bucket/BlemainDefaultNotice.jpg

 

 

On or after the date shown above----what date is that then?

[frettful38]

Just nearly fell off my chair reading what you wrote emandcole , BUT I am in a state of panic at the mo. My loan is an unregulated agreement taken out in Sept 07 and over £25k.

I received a letter this morning from my no win no fee solicitors saying that will no longer be acting for me because they do not believe that I have a good case. In fact it is quite the opposite. I have a very strong case under the unfair relationship test and a secret commission, but I guess they ain't got the balls to fight but I have.

 

I will keep it safe as I have received one DN in my name and exactly the same one in my OH's name.

 

The thing that worries me is as my loan agreement is unregulated do the same rules for DN'S apply also?

[Dotty50]

Lso the DN is supposed to be a stand alone document not an attachment. The DN is not dated.

 

Sit tight and wait for the termination notice or the demand for full ballance.

 

Vint,

 

Are you referring to my DN in this post?

[frettful38]

oooh dear am I right that it is Bank Holiday on Monday?

[frettful38]

On or after the date shown above----what date is that then?

 

 

Hi middenmess, it states 15 business days of this letter, letter is dated the April 2010

Edited May 2, 2010 by frettful38

[emandcole]

Just nearly fell off my chair reading what you wrote emandcole , BUT I am in a state of panic at the mo. My loan is an unregulated agreement taken out in Sept 07 and over £25k.

I received a letter this morning from my no win no fee solicitors saying that will no longer be acting for me because they do not believe that I have a good case. In fact it is quite the opposite. I have a very strong case under the unfair relationship test and a secret commission, but I guess they ain't got the balls to fight but I have.

 

I will keep it safe as I have received one DN in my name and exactly the same one in my OH's name.

 

The thing that worries me is as my loan agreement is unregulated do the same rules for DN'S apply also?

 

I believe so, if they didn't need to give you any time to remedy they wouldn't have botherd with '15 days' and all that.

 

It makes sense that if they issue a default notice such a notice must give you time to pay them the sum they're moaning about. If they didn't need to do that the entire process would be pointless wouldn't it?!

 

Where does it say it's unregulated too? Have to check dates but thought the 25k cap was removed as previosuly 25k and over moved automatically into unregulated territory. Perhaps Vint is better with the dates etc and can offer better insight. Hope it works out for you anyway

[InformedSearcher]

I'm not sure if this has been addressed yet,but if you have submitted a CCA request,the OC defaults on that request.....and in the meantime they send you a default notice for not paying anything(which you are perfectly entitled not to do until a valid agreement is produced) and then terminate the account,are they guilty of unlawful recision?

 

also,if the account was intitially defaulted some years ago,the issue of a second default notice could be seen as being invalid in and of itself,since the rule says only 1 default per account?

 

 

.... which is one of those good reasons to ensure you check CRA records. In theory they cannot do sneaky things but it does happen. Oh, what happened to the belief many years ago that banks were to be respected and held high levels of integrity??

 

Michael

[middenmess]

Hi middenmess, it states 15 business days of this letter, letter is dated the 28 April 2010

 

 

As far as I'm aware it has to specify an exact date -14th May for example--so that you are in no doubt as to when the breech has to be rectified by,Stating a number of days is not compliant under the CCA.

[frettful38]

I believe so, if they didn't need to give you any time to remedy they wouldn't have botherd with '15 days' and all that.

 

It makes sense that if they issue a default notice such a notice must give you time to pay them the sum they're moaning about. If they didn't need to do that the entire process would be pointless wouldn't it?!

 

Where does it say it's unregulated too? Have to check dates but thought the 25k cap was removed as previosuly 25k and over moved automatically into unregulated territory. Perhaps Vint is better with the dates etc and can offer better insight. Hope it works out for you anyway

 

I agree with you emandcole and will wait for vint to see if he can add anything. It does not state unregulated on my loan agreement but I know that my loan is unregulated as it was taken out before they lifted the limit.

 

I would just love to be 100% sure about the validity of this DN before doing anything, and I don't know if my lender would instruct a DCA or just apply directly themselves to court for repossession. Will wait to see what others advise.

 

Thanks for your help.

[frettful38]

As far as I'm aware it has to specify an exact date -14th May for example--so that you are in no doubt as to when the breech has to be rectified by,Stating a number of days is not compliant under the CCA.

 

Thanks again middenmess, I am trying to work out what date would 5 business days from the date of the DN be and make it 18th May 2010. As you can see no date is prescribed and it is Bank Holiday on Monday 3rd May 2010. Also letter dated Apr 10 posted 2 Apr 10 received Apr 10. I guess it was sent 1st class as payment postage is 36p.

 

Maybe the y have covered their backs when they have stated 15 business days, who knows?

Edited May 2, 2010 by frettful38

[emandcole]

Remember that a loan was not automatically unregulated if it went 'in total' over 25k.

 

Example.

 

Loan for 22k. Interest 7k. Total 29k = Still regulated...

 

as its the principle amount that dictates the regulated/unregulated and not the total amount payable (29k in the example above)

 

Check yout T&C's maybe too?

[frettful38]

Sweet. It's invalid. Within 15 business days? What's all that about?

 

Keep it safe and wait for them to demand the full balance, either with an actual termination of agreement letter or by inference, eg a DCA sends you a snooty letter demanding all of the money 'or else'.

 

It's not even in the prescribed format and although it clearly relates to a mortgage as opposed to section 87 type credit card stuff they still need to give you the right amount of time, clearly specified, to provide remedy.

 

Your lucky day Frettful

 

emandcole, this is not a mortgage but secured loan on my property, should have said that first.

[emandcole]

Thanks again middenmess, I am trying to work out what date would 15 business days from the date of the DN be and make it 18th May 2010. As you can see no date is prescribed and it is Bank Holiday on Monday 3rd May 2010. Also letter dated 28 Apr 10 posted 29 Apr 10 received 30 Apr 10. I guess it was sent 1st class as payment postage is 36p.

 

Maybe the y have covered their backs when they have stated 15 business days, who knows?

 

Remember too that they need to specify a date or it's plain unclear! In addition, if they for example stated 'remedy before the 25th August' that actually only gives you until 23:59:59 on the 24th August, another factor that can invalidate a DN

Edited April 30, 2010 by emandcole
typo