NW overdraft account passed to KPR, then Fredricksons and now threats of Litigation and 2nd Charge on my home from KPR!

[meerkatsmimm]

Hi Folks,

 

Recieved a letter in from KPR, Nationwides in-house debt collection agency, telling me they have been instructed by themselves, sorry Nationwide to deal with my account.

 

Threatening all sorts, but sent them off a CCA letter and dont doorstep us letter a few days ago. Also asked them to refer the account back to the OC as they have no notice of assignment or sale, so its not 'their' account to deal with in the first place.

 

Letter scanned below - should this be enough for them to send it back to Nationwide?

 

They to havent replied to my CCA request as yet, needing me to confirm address information etc.

 

Thanks x

 

Edited May 23, 2009 by meerkatsmimm
Change title

[cerberusalert]

They're very naughty asking you to pay by credit card when it's against OFT guidelines;

 

Debt collection guidance - Final guidance on unfair business practices - oft664

 

Physical/psychological harassment

2.5

Putting pressure on debtors or third parties is considered to be oppressive.

2.6

Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

a.

contacting debtors at unreasonable times and at unreasonable intervals

b.

pressurising debtors to sell property, to raise funds by further

borrowing or to extend their borrowing

c.

using more than one debt collection business at the same time

resulting in repetitive and/or frequent contact by different parties

d.

not ensuring that an adequate history of the debt is passed on as

appropriate resulting in repetitive and/or frequent contact by different

parties

e.

not informing the debtor when their case has been passed on to a

different debt collector

f.

pressurising debtors to pay in full, in unreasonably large instalments,

or to increase payments when they are unable to do so

g.

making threatening statements or gestures or taking actions which

suggest harm to debtors

h.

ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are

disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment

i.

disclosing or threatening to disclose debt details to third parties unless

legally entitled to do so

j.

acting in a way likely to be publicly embarrassing to the debtor either

deliberately or through lack of care, for example, by not putting

correspondence in a sealed envelope and putting it through a letterbox,

thereby running the risk that it could be read by third parties.Page 10

 

6

Debt collection guidance

July 2003 (updated December 2006)

Deceptive and/or unfair methods

[meerkatsmimm]

Thanks cerberusealert,

 

I think I will include that in my next letter to them. Learning more and more everyday!

[creditcardmug]

Hi, is this for a credit card? i presume you've had a Default Notice?, since its already been passed to KPR

[meerkatsmimm]

Hi CCM,

 

No it is not for a credit card - that hasn't been passed onto KPR yet!

 

It's for an overdraft on a personal current account. I was on a payment arrangement of £100 per month until I stopped paying at the end of December. I did phone and asked for the repayment amounts to be reduced for 6 months back in November but they wouldn't negotiate at all.

 

I sent a CCA request off on 12th April as I do not remember signing anything for the overdraft at all.

 

Anyway - did get a default notice but it was improperly served - asked for full payment within 14 days of letter - no time to serve etc.

 

Account seems to have been terminated as it is no longer showing on my internet banking.

[meerkatsmimm]

Up date folks,

 

Today recieved a FINAL NOTICE letter from KPR.

 

They state that I have failed to take the action requested in our previous correspondance.

 

That our debt has now become a priority case and Ms. Feasey cannot allow that to continue.

 

That I must call within the next 7 days with an acceptable offer to repay the overdrawn balance.

 

If I do not do so they will refer the account to a DCA to pursue me for the outstanding debt...

 

Confused with this last point, are they not saying they are a DCA??? As in KPR Debt Collection? Is this them finally admitting to be the Nationwides inhouse team even though the secret has been out for a long time?

 

Anyway, Im confused about how I can sort this account out as its not a Credit Card, simply a bank account and overdraft.

 

I CCA'd Nationwide and CCA'd KPR, but as you can read its not especially relevant.

 

Ive SAR'd NW and they sent the letter stating they need signature and proof of who I was etc. Still havent done this, because I dont want them messing around with a fresh signature.

 

How can I get this crowd off my back? Is there someway I can put this type of account in dispute or is it a case whereby I am going to end up with a CCJ over this simply because I cannot pursue it on any other level?

 

Urgent advice would be appreciated.

 

Many thanks x

[UnitedFront]

Hi CCM,

 

No it is not for a credit card - that hasn't been passed onto KPR yet!

 

It's for an overdraft on a personal current account. I was on a payment arrangement of £100 per month until I stopped paying at the end of December. I did phone and asked for the repayment amounts to be reduced for 6 months back in November but they wouldn't negotiate at all.

 

I sent a CCA request off on 12th April as I do not remember signing anything for the overdraft at all.

 

Anyway - did get a default notice but it was improperly served - asked for full payment within 14 days of letter - no time to serve etc.

 

Account seems to have been terminated as it is no longer showing on my internet banking.

 

 

I'm sorry but I don't think that the Consumer Credit Act is relevant to Overdraft facilities?? Perhaps one of the experts can come along and confirm this, but I'm almost certain!!!

 

UF

[mr.ton]

Ms. Feasey cannot allow that to continue.

 

Awwww bless her

She may not allow it but you certainly will

[mr.ton]

Confused with this last point, are they not saying they are a DCA??? As in KPR Debt Collection? Is this them finally admitting to be the Nationwides inhouse team even though the secret has been out for a long time?

 

They dont even know what they are themselves..its symptomatic of a debt system in chaos that does know its A from its E anymore

Report them to the OFT & trading standards.

[meerkatsmimm]

They dont even know what they are themselves..its symptomatic of a debt system in chaos that does know its A from its E anymore

Report them to the OFT & trading standards.

 

Is that all I can do in this situation?

 

Both of these Overdrafts have invalid DN's served against them and they have actually terminated the other account I have with them. In that instance how can I get them to go away now they have issued an invalid DN, as it would normally mean I only owe the arrears - to which end all I owe above the agreed overdraft level is penalty charges.

 

Can I do anything else here, short of phoning them and offering to try to resolve this with a payment plan?

 

Thanks

[UnitedFront]

Have you started a claim for the unlawful charges?

 

UF

[meerkatsmimm]

No, how do you do that United Front?

 

Do I not have to wait until the SAR request has been fulfilled?

 

If it puts the accounts in dispute I would start the ball rolling now, could you please advise.

 

Thanks

[UnitedFront]

Hi, yes get the Subject Access request in now, when that comes back you will know how much the unlawful charges are for! I know many people have found that the charges actually outweight the debt!!

 

I will try and find a link to the bank charges reclaiming guide thing for you.

 

Starting a claim can basically place the account in dispute, as far as I know, because you are disputing the amount owing. To that extent it is in dispute.

 

I will try and post in a minute with the bank charges link.

 

UF

 

I am not a legal expert and I have no legal training. All of my posts are just my opinion and I cannot be held responsible for their accuracy or the way in which the information etc is used.

[meerkatsmimm]

Hi UF,

 

Thanks for that, the link would be very much appreciated.

 

Can I put the Bank Charges claim in now, or do I need to know an amount at this stage, or can I say application pending the SAR results.

 

Thanks

[UnitedFront]

Hi meerkat, this link should have all the relevant stuff in it that you need:

 

The Consumer Forums - Bank charges templates (consumer)

 

As far as I can tell you just follow each letter on from the last and do as they say.

 

I think you need to get the SAR back first, so that you know an amount, then you hit them with the claims etc.

 

Can I ask roughly how much we are talking about that they are chasing you for? (rough figures, not precise )

 

 

UF

 

I am not a legal expert and I have no legal training. All of my posts are just my opinion and I cannot be held responsible for their accuracy or the way in which the information etc is used.

[meerkatsmimm]

Both OD's just under 4k. Does it make a difference?

 

Thanks for the link, that is super.

 

Can you explain about following the first letter on from the last and doing as they say?

 

Thanks x

[meerkatsmimm]

Can I send KPR a letter stating that I am waiting on the SAR being fulfilled so that I can place the account in dispute due to charges being owed to me from Nationwide?

 

Would they be liable to suspend any further action until I get this information and therefore have a chance to review this information?

 

Could I contact the Nationwide directly and suggest this?

 

Thanks

[UnitedFront]

Hi, I think it does make a difference, because as far as I know the limit currently for the small claims court is 5k. You want to be in small claims rather than anything else, because of potential costs etc.

 

The first thing to get off to them is the SAR letter as follows:

 

Data Protection Act 1998

Subject Access Request

 

 

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: xxxxxxxxx (or multiple numbers if more than one account)

 

 

Please supply me with a complete list of transactions and charges relating to my banking history with your organisation. Alternatively, a complete set of statements for that period will be acceptable.

 

Additionally, where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any member of your staff, or any other person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my banking business with you.

 

If you are unable to supply this data because there has been no such manual intervention, then please be so kind as to confirm this in your response.

 

I enclose the statutory maximum fee of £10. You have 40 days in which to comply. Furthermore, if I discover that you have levied disproportionate penalties against me, then I shall be reclaiming them, and also reclaiming the enclosed £10 DPA subject access request fee.

 

If there is specific information which you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity, please let me know by return. However, please note that the above address is the one which you normally use to communicate my private business to me and which you have hitherto found to be acceptable.

I would be happy to collect the Data from my local branch.

 

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

[signature]

 

 

[name]

 

When you receive all the information you need, you can add up the charges that have been unlwfully levied on the account. Remember that you can go back 6 years (5 in Scotland).

 

When you have done this, I think the next step is to send Letter Number 3 - preliminary approach:

 

Request for repayment of charges

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: xxxxxxxxx

 

 

My request

 

I am writing to ask you to refund to me bank charges and related interest which you have levied from my account over the last XXXX years.

 

The High Court has recently decided that your charges are subject to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999. I consider that the regime of bank charges you operate is unfair within the meaning of these Regulations as they are not individually negotiated, they operate in much the same way as charges operated by other High street banks and therefore there is little alternative to myself but to agree to the charges. Furthermore the charges are contrary to the requirement of good faith and fair dealing as they lack basic standards of commercial moral practice and take an unfair advantage of the weak bargaining power of the consumer. They impose a significant imbalance in the rights and obligations between the contracting parties which is to my detriment. I also consider that the charges may be unlawful at common law.

 

Your responsibilities

 

I would draw your attention to the terms of the contract which you agreed to at the time that I opened my account. It is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law. Furthermore you are bound by the Banking Code to treat your customers fairly and it is evident that you do not so.

 

I am frankly shocked that you have operated my account in this way as I had always reposed confidence in your integrity and expertise.

 

I consider that your repeated representations that your charges are fair and reasonable are deceptive and that they have deceived me into agreeing to pay them.

Your concealment of the true nature of your charges has prevented me from asserting my right until now.

 

What I require

 

I calculate that you have taken £XXXXX plus a further £XXX which you have charged me in overdraft interest for the sum which you have taken. Total £XXXXX .

I enclose a schedule of the charges which I am claiming with this letter.

 

Additionally you have entered [a default notice against] [adverse comments onto] my credit record.] [This default] [The comments] occurred merely in respect of the unlawful charges levied by you or was the result of impecuniosity caused directly by the taking by you of unfair charges which you had applied unlawfully to my account.

 

In addition to full payment of the sum mentioned above, I require that you remove the [default entry] [adverse comments] from the register. Please note that mere correction or amendment to the entry will not be acceptable. I would remind you that the misuse of personal data in this way is contrary to the Data Protection Act and is probably defamatory.

 

Further complaints about breaches of the Banking Code and misuse of personal data

I am also putting you on notice that I intend to complain or to take appropriate action about your breaches of the Banking Code and also about the holding and/or unlawful processing by you my personal data.

 

My targets to resolve this matter

I hope that you will enter into a sincere dialogue with me about this matter and I am writing this letter to you on the assumption that you will prefer to do this than merely respond with standard letters and leaflets.

 

I am fully aware of the waiver which you are presently relying upon and which was granted to you by the FSA. However, this is an internal industry matter and has nothing to do with me. It is one-sided and I note that you continue to levy charges and to enforce them despite the weight of judicial and popular opinion against you.

 

I will give you 14 days to reply to me accepting, unconditionally, my request in principle and letting me know a date by which I will receive payment.

 

If you dispute that I am entitled to a refund of these charges, then please let me know within the above timescale the basis upon which you dispute together with the reasons why you consider your charges to be fair.

 

If you do not respond, or you do not respond positively, within this time period, I shall send you a letter before action giving you a further 14 days in which to reflect. I believe that these targets are more than sufficient for a large company such as yours with dedicated staff and departments.

 

After that, there will be no further communication from me and I shall issue a claim at the expiry of the second deadline.

 

ADD THE FOLLOWING IF RELEVANT:

 

In considering this request for repayment, your attention is drawn to the Press Release issued by the FSA on 27th July, which states:

 

"Consumers who are in very difficult financial circumstances - 'hardship cases'

 

Banks and building societies will have to conduct a filtering process to ensure that cases of genuine hardship are still dealt with during the waiver period. Cases of hardship would still be entitled to be referred to, and dealt with by, the FOS."

 

I believe that my personal circumstances fall within this category because....... [add whatever you think relevant]

 

 

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

 

 

 

[name]

 

There is a big Warning above these letters saying the following:

"

Warning

 

Do not send these letters if you do not intend to follow the matter through promptly and to the end.

 

To send this letter otherwise will make you look ridiculous and will undermine the efforts of others who do want to get their money back.

 

============================================================="

But I think depending on the amount of charges on your account, you may have firm ground to dispute the money being claimed!!

That should get you going for now my friend.

UF

 

I am not a legal expert and I have no legal training. All of my posts are just my opinion and I cannot be held responsible for their accuracy or the way in which the information etc is used.

[UnitedFront]

Can I send KPR a letter stating that I am waiting on the SAR being fulfilled so that I can place the account in dispute due to charges being owed to me from Nationwide?

 

Would they be liable to suspend any further action until I get this information and therefore have a chance to review this information?

 

Could I contact the Nationwide directly and suggest this?

 

Thanks

 

I'll be honest, I'm not sure what to say. If it were me, I would probably write to them asking them to provide proof of the amount they claim and where it accumulated from.

 

Hopefully by the time they finish mucking about with that, you will have your SAR back. Then the big work begins.

 

UF

 

I am not a legal expert and I have no legal training. All of my posts are just my opinion and I cannot be held responsible for their accuracy or the way in which the information etc is used.

[meerkatsmimm]

Thank you UF,

 

That is all excellent.

 

Just been talking with my hubby and he suggests that perhaps we send a letter to both KPR and NW now, stating that we are awaiting the SAR response from them, but as they have very recently placed unlawful penalty charges on both accounts, we now place them in dispute pending a more detailed examination of what they owe us back on reciept of the SAR.

 

My issue is that I dont want them to take this to CCJ level - will they place the account in dispute once the above letter is sent in and could we amend the amount (add to it) owed by them to us if we were to send the above letter in today, with the monies they owe back on penalty charges that we are aware of to date?

[meerkatsmimm]

Thanks UF, at the very least I will send that letter off to them both today x.

[UnitedFront]

Thank you UF,

 

That is all excellent.

 

Just been talking with my hubby and he suggests that perhaps we send a letter to both KPR and NW now, stating that we are awaiting the SAR response from them, but as they have very recently placed unlawful penalty charges on both accounts, we now place them in dispute pending a more detailed examination of what they owe us back on reciept of the SAR.

 

My issue is that I dont want them to take this to CCJ level - will they place the account in dispute once the above letter is sent in and could we amend the amount (add to it) owed by them to us if we were to send the above letter in today, with the monies they owe back on penalty charges that we are aware of to date?

 

You're quite welcome. I'm not sure they would take this to CCJ level within the 40 days they have to provide you with information under you SAR. I mean..... it's possible.... but I'm not sure how likely?

 

To get a CCJ, you would have a chance to go to court and defend yourself and from what I have picked up on the forum here, your defence can be partially a dispute regarding unlawful charges.

 

No doubt someone with more expertise than me will be along shortly. Until then thought get the letters off and then sit tight

 

Obviously keep the thread updated with any developments etc.

 

Cheers

UF

[meerkatsmimm]

Thank you again UF,

 

I would like to try to sort this before them starting to take us down a court route - I would prefer to be the one doing that!

 

Ill send the letters off today, asking for clarification.

 

BTW, welcome Guest, dont be shy, speak up!

[meerkatsmimm]

One other thing,

 

Give that they have Terminated my account and issued an invalid DN on this account, how can I get tell them to bugger off over this?

 

Any ideas? x

[UnitedFront]

They have terminated your account? I take it you have set up another account with which to conduct your finaces etc?

 

I'm afraid Im not sure about your last point. I've heard all sorts of story's about companies winning in court despite invalid DN's etc, so that argument may be short lived.

 

Still...... carry on with what you're doind for now and wait until everything comes back

 

No doubt other people may post up further advice for you as well

 

UF

 

I am not a legal expert and I have no legal training. All of my posts are just my opinion and I cannot be held responsible for their accuracy or the way in which the information etc is used.