Phoenix & Luton Borough Council

[combathamster]

I built up considerable arrears of counil tax when I was ill and had a less than supportive partner. I fell ill in late 2004, was quite badly treated by the 'Leave & Die', which is the subject of a complaint, developed severe depression as a result of the heart problem being undiagnosed, was admitted for depression in 2005, sectioned 2006. Finally had angioplasty in Nov 2007. My then partner was working part time, and supposedly covering the council tax. However as I became more active it became obvious she wasn't. I had to have her and her kids removed by the police in July 2008 and informed the council of my circumstances as I was on incapacity benefit so the payment structure would have to change. They then took me to court as 'I hadn't made an offer in my letter'. This was in addition to the previous arrears from the previous year. I offered to pay £10 a fortnight out of my incapacity which was more than I was supposed to bu stated in a letter to them to stop any action as I was going to return to work in the autumn term. They sent the account ( some 840 quid ) to Pheonix in August for the previous year despite me being on benefit and a 'vulnerable' person, I asked to be discharged from the Mental Health Services in November as I needed to get back to work. Come December I was pleased as I had paid off all the arrears for 2008-9 but received a letter from Pheonix saying their agent will call in 7 days to collect 1067 pounds ( previous year ). I had just received a rather negative response from the Healthcare Commission so was in a very poor state of mind. Coupled with this demand I went downhll pretty rapidly and wrote to Phoenix and LBC stating that if anybody would try to take any of my property, I wold do something daft...I was quite serious, and had made arrangements for the animals and changed my will to prevent the ex from benefiting. I also went down to the council and stated the same thing, which resulted in the council bod looking at the ceiling a lot. The recovery team said they would do nothing and I should speak to Phoenix...I had asked for a 30 day stay so as to begin working again and sort out an installment plan. LBC wrote a 2 line letter of reply back saying talk to the bailiffs, Pheonix wrote a 2 line letter back saying speak to their agent. The nice bailiff man appeared, put my car on the form ( which I needed to work ) and an old car which I had just sold on e-bay to raise money to pay off the debt. I gave hime 334 and he gave me 10 days to find the rest, there was no discussion of installments. I immediately gave all the stuff I had inherited from my parents to friends in case the worst happened. I had injured myself in the meantime, and they clubbed together and I got a small loan at a ridiculous rate of interest. Since coming onto the forums here I have noticed on the form he left..an 'enforcement fee'...I believe this to be spurious as from what I can gather that is charged AFTER a levy has been made and that figure is laid down in statute. It amounted to £165.

 

Subsequent to that I have received another demand from LBC.which is valid...but they used the wrong acc number on it...I had been told I was up to date on the one I was using..and I ended up going to court despite e-mailing and writing to them 8 times giving full details and disputing it...I turned up, and was told I didn't need to be there....I did point out that I had been offered work that day ( if I don't work I don't get paid ), and would be seeking to be compensated for that, and was told that was discussed in the letter posted the day before ( it arrived after the weekend...nothing was in it ) I have given them until the 27th to respond or I will take them to the small claims court.

[ScarletPimpernel]

I will move this to the Bailiff forum.

[chris600uk]

Since coming onto the forums here I have noticed on the form he left..an 'enforcement fee'...I believe this to be spurious as from what I can gather that is charged AFTER a levy has been made and that figure is laid down in statute. It amounted to £165

 

Ok, so when the bailiff called and levied upon your car he charged what? What was the debt he was collecting?

 

Using Schedule 5 you can work out how much he was entitled to charge. see: The Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992

 

 

2.—(1) In heads A and B of the Table to paragraph 1, "the relevant amount" with respect to a visit or a levy means—

(a) where the sum due at the time of the visit or of the levy (as the case may be) does not exceed £100, £12.50,

(b) where the sum due at the time of the visit or of the levy (as the case may be) exceeds that amount, 12½ per cent. on the first £100 of the sum due, 4 per cent. on the next £400, 2½ per cent. on the next £1,500, 1 per cent. on the next £8,000 and ¼ per cent. on any additional sum;

and the sum due at any time for these purposes means so much of the amount in respect of which the liability order concerned was made as is outstanding at the time.

 

(2) Where a charge has arisen under head B with respect to an amount, no further charge may be aggregated under heads A or B in respect of that amount.

 

 

Start there.

[combathamster]

Thanks Chris, the debt was for council tax, for £844.29, his charges were ;

 

Levy charge £49

Walking Possession Fee £12

Enforcement Fee £165

 

I found something else out last night as a result of looking on one of the links through the forums here;

 

From Specification for Private Enforcement Provision Schedule 4 HMCS and DCA

 

Section 6.31

 

"The contractor shall not take action to levy distress without prior reference to the court if the defaulter............appears to suffer from severe physical or any mental disability"

 

I bet Pheonix didn't stick to this one

[chris600uk]

Have you contacted your local councillor? They can ask for a review of the council's actions in your case.

I would also contact your local MP - whose responsibility it is for voting for bad laws that allow councils and bailiffs to act as they do.

[combathamster]

Hello Chris I have been in contact with my local MP and sam sending her copies of all paperwork, as well as a formal complaint to the council and Phoenix, and have given them until the end of the month to reply. What regulatory/other organisations should I write to? I have thought about trading Standards and the Local Government Ombudsman?

[chris600uk]

There is no harm in trying, and all they can say is no

[combathamster]

I need a little clarification here;

 

1st visit ( not filled in )

2nd visit ( not filled in )

Levy charge £49

Walking Possession Fee £12

Enforcement Fee £165

Administration Fee ( not filled in )

 

He was on his own ( and in the same tatty red van as he was in when he picked up the money after 10 days ) nothing was taken at the time so I would presume the levy was all he was allowed to charge...so the £165 enforcement fee is bunk?

 

I have written to Phoenix asking them to explain their fees and have asked for an answer by 1st May ( recorded delivery of course ) I may SAR them this weekend. Any other advice?

[chris600uk]

Yes the enforcement fee is bunk, excessive and therefore unlawful, fraudulent in fact.

 

However, you must give the bailiff the opportunity to correct his "mistake", as of course you are correctly doing.

[combathamster]

Thanks Chris..well if they don't reply by that date then I will got to the Ombudsman and go and see my local constabulary...and go for the form 4 thing.

[tomtubby]

I need a little clarification here;

 

1st visit ( not filled in )

2nd visit ( not filled in )

Levy charge £49

Walking Possession Fee £12

Enforcement Fee £165

Administration Fee ( not filled in )

 

He was on his own ( and in the same tatty red van as he was in when he picked up the money after 10 days ) nothing was taken at the time so I would presume the levy was all he was allowed to charge...so the £165 enforcement fee is bunk?

 

I have written to Phoenix asking them to explain their fees and have asked for an answer by 1st May ( recorded delivery of course ) I may SAR them this weekend. Any other advice?

 

 

 

The "enforcement fee" is really an "attending to remove" fee. HOWEVER there is plenty of case law that makes it very clear that for this to be charged there must be a VALID LEVY in place.

 

There is a levy fee and I would suspect that a "levy" has been put on a motor vehicle outside. Did the bailiff provide any documentation?

 

You need to ask for a complete breakdown of the account and that in this respect you would prefer to receive a copy of the screen shot of your account and that if this request is refused you will be copying your letter and their response to the Information Commissioners Officer (ICO).

 

This should work !!

 

PS: Please ask for confirmation of the name of the bailiff who visited...and confirmation that he is certificated to work for Phoenix !!!!

[combathamster]

Thank you tomtubby, will write with full details when I return home. This was the first time I had seen him. He arrived at around 8.30am. I said I did not have to let him in, he said he would have my car removed ( subsequently as I need this for my job as a supply teacher he would not have been able to do this ), so let him in. The levy and the enforcement fee appeared on the document he left with me at the same time. There was no discussion about installments, I gave him £340 and he gave me 10 days to find the other 740 odd. I am confused in that I thought an 'enforcement fee' or attendance fee...could only be charged AFTER a levy had been made...not at the same time inn the same visit. He was on his own and in the same red van he later came in to pick up the rest of the money. I did repeat my threats to my own welfare I had put in writing...but he ignored then..see section 6.31 above ( not enforceable by law but 'good practice'....I found that in the last week looking through here )

 

Thanks for responding

[combathamster]

Back home. Sequence of events was this;

 

07/01/09 Bailiff arrived made note of car registrations on the drive. He was on his own. He then came to the door....what happened is described in the post above. What he left me with was a 'Notice of Siezure of Goods and Inventory'.

 

Both cars were put on the form my own ( which was vital for me to do my job ) and the ex's old one she had given back to pay off the debts she left me with ( ha ha ) which had been sold on E-bay.

[combathamster]

Found this on:

 

Costs and Fees - Debt Help UK

 

Council Tax and Community Charge

 

The Bailiff visits the premises but does not gain entry:

• 1st visit - £20
  
• 2nd visit - £15
  

The Bailiff gains entry, lists and takes "possession" of the goods (the goods are not necessarily removed):

• Debt less than £100: £20
  
• Debt more than £100:
  
  • 20% of first £100
    
  • 4% of the next £400
    
  • 2% of the next £1500
    

The bailiff makes one attendance with a vehicle and intends to remove goods (where the bailiff has previously gained entry, listed, taken "possession" but not removed the goods):

• Reasonable costs and fees: Around £50.
  

The bailiff removes and stores goods: reasonable costs and fees.

The bailiff takes walking possession of the goods (the debtor has signed a walking possession agreement): £10.00.

 

A bit more;

It may be possible to get the bailiff withdrawn if there are Special Circumstances. The debtor should contact:

• the creditor if they have a County Court Judgement;
  
• or the Council if they owe Council Tax or Community Charge;
  
• or the Magistrates Court if they owe a fine;
  

and inform them of any Special Circumstances, ask for the bailiff not to be used, and if it is possible to make a new payment arrangement.

Special Circumstances are usually defined as:

Serious illness, mental impairment, learning difficulties, physical disability, long term sickness, unemployment, recent bereavement, severe financial difficulties.

 

However North Somerset concil seem to condone 'attendance fees as valid'

http://www.n-somerset.gov.uk/cairo/docs/doc15176.pdf

 

Merton

 

Bailiff Service - Merton Council

 

Medway

 

History

 

Birmingham

 

How To Deal With The Bailiff

 

Derby

BAILIFFS This actually states that a attendence fee can be charged AFTER a visit had already been made ( walk-in possession )

 

anyway..enough for now....think I can go after them bigtime