me v barclays

[izzitme101]

Barclays sent me a DN 4 weeks ago, for an alleged personal loan, so i gave them a nice, polite reply asking for a copy of the cca.

Havent decided wether to send the dispute letter or wait to see what they say, if anytihng.

[clemma]

As it is passed the 12+2 days for them to reply, send the letter and put the account into dispute.

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT

 

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

 

Thank you for your letter of xx/xx/xx, the contents of which have been noted.

 

You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account.

 

On **DATE** I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8. A copy of which is enclosed for your perusal and ease of reference.

 

You have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account is now in default as of **DATE**.(12+2 days after you sent the CCA request)

 

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document.In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.

 

Furthermore;

 

You are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before your client enters into a default situation. This limit has expired

 

As you are no doubt aware section 78(6) states:

 

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

 

As you have Failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, Failed to send a full statement of the account and Failed to provide any of the documentation requested. Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS. Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

 

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect. This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

 

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data. It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends. Should you not respond within 14 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

 

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

 

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* You may not pass the account to a third party.

* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit. You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint. I therefore request a copy of your official complaints procedure which you are obliged to supply.

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

 

Yours faithfully,

[izzitme101]

thanks clemma, think i will do that, will save 87p per day interest if anything does turn up haha

[izzitme101]

i got my reply today, has left me a bit suprised, they havent even attempted to get a copy from microfiche!

Will put copies up in a few once i sort the details out

it is extremely clear and readable, i guess thats a plus haha

[izzitme101]

ok here they are, doesn't look anything like any credit agreement i may have signed, despite lacking a sig, and a prescribed term missing i believe.

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/tt77/izzitme101/page1.jpg

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/tt77/izzitme101/page2.jpg

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/tt77/izzitme101/page3.jpg

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/tt77/izzitme101/page4.jpg

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/tt77/izzitme101/page5.jpg

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/tt77/izzitme101/page6.jpg

 

Dont think ive ever seen a cca in this format before, any comments?

obviously i realise theres no sig ect, but im pretty sure cca's are not laid out in this way?

Looks to me like just a normal typed up letter.

Any advice on an appropriate reply to, they have the dispute letter was the last one i sent?

[clemma]

The lack of your signature makes this unenforceable. However, there is a loophole in the CCA request that banks etc. like to use - they are perfectly within their rights to omit such details as your signature, address etc

 

You may want to read through this thread and use the CPR route instead as Barclays are going to be difficult with this one.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/173201-why-you-shouldnt-use.html

[izzitme101]

I am right in thinking that this is just a typed up copy that they have sent me aint I?

reading the thread no clemma

[clemma]

I agree, it looks like something they have just printed from a template.

[izzitme101]

theyve been reading cag, ive not seen that template on here, where do i find it?

[izzitme101]

ok I have looked at this, does this mean if I take this route, i would eventually have to start proceedings?

Or can I just get the information I need then stop short of making a claim?

I would really prefer that they took the action tbh

[clemma]

It's entirely up to you - you can always send them another one letter - but to be honest, they have complied with your CCA request - regardless of the fact it is unenforceable as it is.

 

You can just sit tight and wait for them to start action - but my guess is this will be passed to a DCA (Calders or Mercers I think are their in-house monkeys, can't remember for sure).

[izzitme101]

Dear sir/madam

I write with regards to the above account with your organisation.

 

 

I respectfully request that you provide me a copy by return of the credit agreement that bears my signature. I require this as I believe there may be discrepancies within the agreement which render it improperly executed.

 

 

Obviously if the agreement is improperly executed, I would be entitled to ask a court to consider the agreement and make a declaration of the rights of the parties to the agreement. I must stress this is NOT made pursuant to section 78 consumer credit act 1974, but is made pursuant to civil procedure rules (pre action protocols part 31.16) and therefore an unsigned copy will not suffice.

 

 

Please confirm you hold a copy of my agreement, and that you will provide me with this document.

 

 

I do not view this as an unreasonable request given that by supplying the document I have asked for it will allow me to assess if my case has merit and will help resolve matters possibly without the need to involve the court, and will save costs on both sides.

 

 

I look forward to your reply and would ask for a response by

 

 

 

 

that look ok? i dont have any ppi probs, i always refused it

I remember a program when i was about 14 about it then, and even that far back they said it was mostly a [problem] lol

[clemma]

That looks fine to me

[izzitme101]

thanks clemma, will be posted recorded in half hour.

Hopefully it will get the response im looking for

[izzitme101]

i dont get why they are so stubborn haha

in reply to my cpr request, they sent me the exact same document as posted above!

I think im gonna cobble together a letter spelling it out em and disputing the account later, have to pop out now.

Cant believe an organisation of this size doesnt understand the rules, regulations and laws under which it operates.

[izzitme101]

ok i have a question now, is what they sent me under the cpr request the document that they have to now rely on in court to attempt to enforce it?

[slick132]

No, it is not.

 

They say they are responding properly to your request for documents. They contend that they don't have to supply the document which you want to see.

 

If they wanted to take you to court to enforce the agreement, they would normally have to supply the original credit agreement to the court.

[izzitme101]

hmm how would it work if i wnated to take them, and any idea of the chances of the cca turning up from 05?

[slick132]

We've seen many cases of valid credit agreements being produced. You can't assume their reluctance to produce it now means they have no agreement, or no valid agreement.

 

Taking the CPR route beyond the LBA means you would file at court seeking production of the agreement.

 

Only when/if they produce the agreement can you consider whether it is valid and enforceable.

[izzitme101]

so its better to hang on and tell them what they sent me is no good then?

[slick132]

Hi Izzit,

 

I'd wait just now for 2 reasons:-

 

1. To see what BC/Mercers do next.

 

2. To see how another case (smt37) goes when it's heard in court.

 

Meanwhile, going back to the DN which started this thread, are there any penalty charges on the account in the last 6 years. If so, this will render the DN invalid as it contains incorrect data.

 

You should set about reclaiming all charges on the a/c, starting with a SAR if nec'y.

Edited April 10, 2009 by slick132
typo

[izzitme101]

looking at the statement of account they sent in place of the cca, i dont see any penalty charges, though they are now adding interest at just under 1 quid per day, i received a monthly statement yesterday, and no charges except that interest are on it.

[slick132]

I assume you kept the account in good order, if you weren't charged late payment or over limit fees over the last 6 years.

 

Does that sound right to you.

[izzitme101]

yeh the alleged loan was begining of 05, only started coming late at the height of the high prices last september time, at which time i had to stop paying to survive.

[slick132]

Hey Izzit,

 

As this is a Fixed Loan, charges don't get added on like they would with a credit card a/c.

 

It's easy to confuse the two types, because of the credit agreement issues.