all new to me

[stmark]

hi we ve been to the c.a.b and have been advised it would be a good idea to challenge our credit card agreements, some of which are 20yrs old .

unsur as how to pursue this have been reading various threads and dont know which letter is best to send first.

 

 

 

the cards we are looking at are hsbc ( which was originally acces card by midland bank) this is the oldeest.

 

mbna

capital 1

m &s which was originally a store card

hsbc gold

is there a limit to the amount you can claim some have largish balances on.

 

all help required please itsvery daunting. thanx

[clemma]

The best thing you can do is send a CCA request to them. This then gives them 12+2 working days to supply a copy of a valid, enforceable agreement. Send the following letter, recorded delivery. Include a £1 postal order and PRINT do not sign your name.

 

I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO YOUR COMPANY

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re: Account no: xxxxxxxx

 

This letter is a formal request pursuant to s.77/78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. I require you to provide me with a true copy of the credit agreement relating to the above account, together with any other documentation the Act requires you to provide.

 

I expect you to comply fully and properly with this request, within the statutory time limit. You are reminded that should you fail to comply with my request, the provisions of s.77(6) will apply.

 

If it is your view that you are not the creditor, s.175 of the CCA 1974 applies in the case of a simple assignment, and places a duty upon you to pass this request to the creditor. In the case of an absolute assignment, you are a creditor as defined by s.189. If you contend that you purchased the rights but not the duties of any agreement, you are reminded that s.189 of the Act is clear that an assignment is of both rights and duties.

 

Your attention is drawn to ss.5(2), 3(b),6 and 7 of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 (CPUTR).

 

I enclose a postal order in the sum of £1.00, which is the statutory fee. Note that these funds are not to be used for any other purpose.

 

If you are unable to comply fully and properly with this request, you should confirm this in writing at the earliest opportunity, and certainly within the statutory time limit for compliance, and return the fee.

 

 

 

Yours etc

 

Try and post their replies and/or documents they send on here (removing all personal details). If they do not send an enforceable agreement within the timeframe, you can then LAWFULLY stop paying them until they do produce something.

 

Hope this helps

 

p.s. There is no limit to the amount you are disputing

[stmark]

thanks for that but whats the difference between this letterand the other letter youcan send , one is actually asking for the signed copy and not quoting the conumer credit act, what arethe implications of sending the letter you suggested and the other one , this is where me not being so bright gets confused.

[clemma]

You can send either letter. The other one is demanding a true signed copy. Even though that is what you are asking with the above letter, there is a loophole these people like to use to avoid sending you "a true copy of the original agreement".

 

The choice is yours

[stmark]

if I send them these requests and it is found out there is nothing wrong with theagreements will we get black marks against our credit rating for asking for these.It just seems a little frightening threatening to stop payments we have never defaulted on any of our payments or had any bad credit ratings.

[clemma]

if I send them these requests and it is found out there is nothing wrong with theagreements will we get black marks against our credit rating for asking for these.It just seems a little frightening threatening to stop payments we have never defaulted on any of our payments or had any bad credit ratings.

 

If you have not defaulted and the agreements come back enforceable, then continue making payments. You will receive no marks on your credit file for requesting a copy of your agreement.

 

For any that come back unenforceable, you can of course stop paying. Even though they should not mark anything on your credit file (as there is no agreement between the 2 parties agreeing to this), it does not mean they will not try. You can, of course, request any information they place on your file to be removed - usually by threatening court action.

 

Hope that helps you a little.

[stmark]

thanks for that guess we need to be brave and bite the bullet, are any companies easier to deal with than othe s . I know my oldest card was originally the midland bank access card and somewhere along the line it changed when hsbc took over this card must be nearly 20yrs old.

[clemma]

The older the card, the less likely there is an enforceable agreement.

 

Ultimately, don't be scared of these people. They may send you many letters (if the agreements aren't valid) telling you all sorts is going to happen. They will more than likely pass on the debt to a collection agency (which they cannot do if the account is in dispute). DO NOT PANIC - if this happens, come back here and you will get all the advise you need. Trust me, have a good read around the forum, and you will see you have absolutely nothing to fear.

 

I have been there, been scared and worried. I buried my head and the debt got worse. Then I found CAG and have not looked back.

 

Good luck, and post here if you have any questions, no matter how small or big they may be.

[stmark]

do u suggest we tackle all the cards at once or one at a time, i thought the older ones were more likely to be wrong, dont know why.

I do appreciate your advise.

[clemma]

That is up to you. If you keep separate files for each creditor then you will be ok. Or, why not try one first (I suggest Capital one as these are the worst at having unenforceable agreements) to see the kind of response you get, then you will know what to expect from the others??

[stmark]

ok will do that, although Mbna is our biggest amount owing and biggest bug bear have you any experience of these.

[clemma]

Only from what I have read on here. You can try MBNA first - how old is that card?

[stmark]

about 10years wethink

[clemma]

Ok - been advised you use the other letter.

 

Dear Sirs

 

Account number

 

I write with regards to the above account with your organisation.

 

I respectfully request that you provide me by return a copy of the credit agreement which bears my signature. I require this as i have reason to believe that there may be discrepancies within the agreement which may leave it improperly executed.Additionally i require the underwriting sheet or other document showing any commissions paid to you by the broker or by you to the broker

 

(If you have any other reasons why you need the agreement such as misselling of PPI Add it here)

 

obviously if the agreement is improperly executed i would be entitled to ask the court to consider the agreement and make a declaration of the rights of parties to the agreement.

 

I must stress this request is NOT made pursuant to section 78 Consumer Credit Act 1974 but is made pursuant to the Civil Procedure Rules ( Pre action protocols and Part 31.16) and therefore unsigned copy will not suffice, only a copy of the original contract in its unaltered form will suffice in these circumstances

 

Please confirm if you still hold a copy of my signed agreement and that you will provide me with this document.

 

I do not view this as an unreasonable request given that by supplying the document which i have asked for it will allow me to assess if my case has merit and will help to resolve matters possibly without the need to involve the court and will undoubtedly save costs on both sides

 

I look forward to your reply and wouyld ask for a response by 4pm on XXXX Date ( Give 21 days to respond)

 

 

Regards

[clemma]

I doubt they will come up with anything enforceable for an agreement that old. Send the letter recorded delivery tomorrow. DO NOT SIGN the letter.

[stmark]

this one just for mbna? or for others too.

[clemma]

For all of them. Start with MBNA first and see what happens. Try and scan and post anything you receive on here (blank out personal details). You will get all the help you need

[stmark]

my hsbc previously access card has got to be 20yrs old aswell

[stmark]

thanks feelin better already

[clemma]

I doubt they will have anything for that either, nor Capital one

[clemma]

thanks feelin better already

 

No problem whatsoever.

[stmark]

I wrote to cap 1, M and S, and MBNA, requesting the signed cca. M and S wrote back saying they could not prove who I was as I had not signed the request letter. I already have a reply organised for them. Capial one sent me an unsigned copy of their terms and conditions. Which is the best reply for this one?

Finaly, the most confusing is that mbna have not replied at all and a reply is now well overdue. I repay them over £300 a month so should I stop, and if so should I tell them why first, and in writing? The original letter I sent was by registered. Indeed should I stop paying all of them.