help needed

[needsomeinfo]

hi can anyone please help my partner had a letter from rossendales about council tax she is on the sick with depression and other illness and moved out of her house 7 months ago as she could not afford topay the mortgage and moved in with me 300 miles away but they still have not took the house yet any way cut a long story short i phoned rossendales and spoke to them offering £10 a month the bloke said ok i have set the first debt to £50 a month and the other one to £100 i said she cant pay that much so he told us to send them details of income by the end of march if not there coming to take stuff i said you cant just come in my house he told me he had some warrant that he could so i phone the council where she owed the money they said htey cant do nothing now its with rossendales and also told us they are charging her half the amount of her normal tax every month for the house being empty that she left 7 months ago what i want to know is i read somehwere that if your on sickness the council have to take the debt back from rossendales is this true?

 

PS sorry for my poor writing and spelling any help would be great

[chris600uk]

i phoned rossendales and spoke to them offering £10 a month the bloke said ok i have set the first debt to £50 a month and the other one to £100 i said she cant pay that much so he told us to send them details of income by the end of march if not there coming to take stuff

 

Fairly typical, your mistake was phoning them, I hope you don't do that again.

 

i said you cant just come in my house

 

Absolutely correct

 

 

he told me he had some warrant that he could

 

 

No he doesn't, he was misrepresenting his powers, very naughty

 

so i phone the council where she owed the money they said htey cant do nothing now its with rossendales

 

The council worker has to say that, although it's not strictly true.

The council has a contract with the bailiffs, but that doesn't mean you can't pay the council direct online - which I strongly recommend that you do.

 

 

they are charging her half the amount of her normal tax every month for the house being empty that she left 7 months ago

 

Well if she didn't inform them that she was leaving, they had no other way of knowing that she wasn't there - unless there is some other evidence like a utility bill somewhere else, or being registered to pay council tax somewhere else.

 

 

i read somehwere that if your on sickness the council have to take the debt back from rossendales is this true?

 

That depends whether or not she receives any benefits or not, or whether she can prove that she's sick enough to be classed as "vulnerable", a doctors note would do that.

 

 

What SHE should do from now on, is only write to them or communicate by email - don't phone the bailiffs anymore.

 

How much is the debt for? Any payments should be made direct to the council. After a while if the bailiffs are unable to collect, they will hand the account back to the council. Just remember that if she is officially living at your address then you need to keep all doors and windows locked and park any car away from the house until the debt is paid, and don't leave any goods outside (front or back) that a bailiff could seize/levy upon.

[needsomeinfo]

hi thanks for the reply the debt it for £456.07 for rossendales and the council said theres another debt for £160 plus half the council tax is being charged for the empty house every month and yes she as been paying council tax where she lives now for the last 7 or 8 months also she gets incapacity benefit

Edited March 4, 2009 by needsomeinfo

[chris600uk]

hi thanks for the reply the debt it for £456.07 for rossendales and the council said theres another debt for £160

 

That's wrong, unless they have levied upon something or been into the house.

 

They must have visited and then they can charge fees of £24.50 for the 1st visit and £18.00 for the second.

 

You should write/email challenging their fees, and tell them that because the account is in dispute (excessive fees) you will only pay the council direct.

 

plus half the council tax is being charged for the empty house every month and yes she as been paying council tax where she lives now for the last 7 or 8 months

 

Well if the house is being repossessed, then she should write to them from that address informing the council that she is NFA from next week and no longer responsible for council tax from that address because the house is no longer her property it has been returned to the lender who is now responsible for the tax.

 

 

she gets incapacity benefit

 

I can't remember if the council can make deductions from incapacity, or if it qualifies her as vulnerable, but at the very least there is a template letter which I'll post, asking the bailiffs to hand the account back.

It can't do any harm, and it may work.

[chris600uk]

Modify this letter carefully to suit your circs and then send it by post or email or both

 

.To: Bailiff Company


 

Date:



 

Dear Sirs,



 

Re: Account reference.



 

I refer to your letter/phone call dated (enter date)informing me that your company have been instructed by (enter local authority) to enforce a warrant/liability order etc against me, in respect of arrears of council tax. 



 

In your letter you state that you will be visiting/returning to my home to (seize/auction etc my goods.)unless full payment of (enter amount) is made by return.



 

The purpose of this letter is to advise your company that I am in receipt of (income support/jobseekers allowance) and am enclosing as proof, a copy of (payment book/letter from benefits agency.)



 

I am informed that deductions can be made directly from my benefits to pay my arrears of council tax. This is provided for in the Council Tax (Deductions from Income Support) Regulations 1993.



For this reason, I would like to request that this account be referred back to (local authority) so that the relevant forms can be completed.

I am also aware that once deductions are in place, Regulation 52 of The Council Tax (Administration & Enforcement) Regulations 1992 expressly forbids any enforcement action.



 

As I have now made you aware of (my/our) circumstances, and provided proof, if your company continues with enforcement action, I will consider making a formal complaint about the bailiff’s conduct to the County Court

Could you please confirm safe receipt of this letter, a copy of which is being sent to my local authority. 




 

Yours Faithfully.

 

 

This letter was designed by tomtubby and originally downloaded from www bailiff advice online co uk

[needsomeinfo]

hi no the £160 is what she owes for new council tax since she left we spoke to the mortgage compnay today they have not taken her to court yet so shes decided to just hand the keys back to them instead of waiting

[needsomeinfo]

update just phoned the council they told me that now a van notice as been sent they cant take the debt back so fell out with on the phone will wait now for them to come but theres one thing for sure they will have to kill me first to get in to my house

[chris600uk]

This is a very special "game" with special rules.

 

If you get into conversation with a bailiff you are going to come off worse unless your knowledge of the relevant law is perfect and you have an over controlled personality.

 

If you think the bailiff is outside, do not answer the door, don't give him/her any feedback no matter how loud they shout, or bang on the door.

 

They can't break in and they know it, so they try to embarass you into opening the door and may attempt to push past you.

 

If that happens then unless you are built like hulk hogan you won't get them out and once in they will say you let them in and then changed your mind.

They will call the police and either have you charged with assault, or have the police restrain you while they go round YOUR house and make a list of stuff they want to seize.

 

DON'T OPEN THE DOOR - DON'T MAKE ANY CONTACT - DON'T GIVE ANY FEEDBACK UNLESS IT IS IN WRITING

 

And never ever speak to them on the phone unless it is to gather information for a complaint AND you are recording the conversation.

[needsomeinfo]

hi thanks again for the reply only spoke once on phone yesterday which was a waste of time and when they do come they wont get in my house i had this happen years ago with bristow debt collectors sent the biggest blokes ever but they never got past me and wont this time also my dog is a rottie and i dont think they will come in my garden when hes outside

[chris600uk]

Your dog should be locked in the back garden or in the house.

 

If it is in a place that is not private, ie. locked, then any damage to the bailiff could result in police action and possibly the loss of your dog.

 

Like I said, this is a special "game" with special rules.

[needsomeinfo]

Your dog should be locked in the back garden or in the house.

 

If it is in a place that is not private, ie. locked, then any damage to the bailiff could result in police action and possibly the loss of your dog.

 

Like I said, this is a special "game" with special rules.

 

 

hi you keep saying special "game" with special rules but if there not allowed in my house i cant really see what they can do and why cant my dog be outisde in the garden he is every day

[chris600uk]

If your dog is in the front garden where a postman or meter reader or bailiff might reasonably be expected to enter to knock on your door or post a letter, and it bites the bailiff (who is entitled to be there) then he can call the police and have the dog treated as dangerous, which may result in your dog being put down.

 

If your dog is in the house, or the back garden behind a locked gate, then although the bailiff is entltled to climb over, he must bear in mind that a dog can't read the regulations and won't be able to distinguish between a bailiff and a burglar. So in climbing over knowing a dog is there he accepts the risk of injury when the dog quite rightly defends it's home.

[chris600uk]

Never underestimate a bailiff, if I was doing that work I can promise you I'd have peaceful entry sorted in no time - bailiff law allows intelligent and determined bailiffs to achieve their objectives.

Fortunately most ordinary bailiffs aren't very smart or creative.

 

 

 

A bailiff does have the right of peaceful entry, and the right to seize any goods found outside your property, so that might include garden furniture.

I've even heard of a bailiff seizing a doormat!

 

 

Also, and more worrying - a bailiff who forces entry is guilty of trespass, but that won't make the seizure unlawful.

 

That's why you keep all doors and windows locked and don't open them to callers until you are sure it's not a bailiff.

[needsomeinfo]

Never underestimate a bailiff lol you dont know me and i can assure who ever comes wont be getting anything from my house or garden will let you know when or if it happens PS most bailiffs are bullies

[chris600uk]

Good luck

 

I'm sure you won't need it though

[needsomeinfo]

lol i wont i have had these in the past at my house over fines but posted this here as i thought the laws might of changed

[chris600uk]

Different laws, much older, ancient actually, some of them go back to 1267

[needsomeinfo]

hi chris today we asked for a crisis loan and i have asked the council for the duplicate bills of what is oweing as you said to pay the council on there web site once this is done can the bailiffs still come after for the money they have added on top or not?

[chris600uk]

Not as bailiffs they can't, because once the liability order is satisfied provided there has been no seizure of goods, they have no right to pursue you.

 

If they really really want their fees they would have to sue you in the small claims court, and provide evidence that they had complied with the law.

Bailiffs don't often do that, they take shortcuts, which would make a normal claim difficult to win.

 

There's a legal principle called "clean hands", if you have not been honest then the court is unlikely to find in your favour.

[needsomeinfo]

ok as soon i have the duplicate from the council and have the money to pay i just do it online then phone the council to say its been paid but no the bailiffs as the council should inform them and the council cant say they wont except it or any rubbish will they

[chris600uk]

if you offer it openly to the council they are contractually obliged to refuse it and insist you pay it to the bailiffs.

 

However if you pay it online, it goes into their bank account and is then their money, which they can't give back.

 

So that's that.

 

 

 

 

As for the bailiffs, the council won't bother telling them, so you should inform them in writing/email.

[needsomeinfo]

ok i might just pay the bailiffs to save any problems they have not put much on top of the bill only about £30