Militant's Friend v Barclaycard

[angel_1]

hiya thats very interesting DD so looks like they are now trying to goad us to start legal action?

 

and that they have already supplied what they need to suply by statutary responce of only the terms they have provided....

 

 

so do we all now send out complaints to whom, as bcard are stone walling us with this responce - surely then its court as our only option in forcing them via court to provide the evidence of the contract ie the credit agreement in its original format

 

laters all angel x

[militantconsumer]

I will wait until we receive a copy of this latest template letter, and then decide on the next move.

 

If they are simply putting forward further arguments as to why they are not obliged to provide a copy of the original signed agreement under CCA 1974 then fine - that is not what I am asking for.

 

I am asking for a copy of the original agreement which bears my signature because I have lost mine, and I want to assess two aspects of a potential action against them:-

1. A declaration of the rights of parties under section 142 of CCA 1974

2. A reclaim of payment protection insurance policy premiums which were charged, and for which I believe there may not have been a contractual arrangement.

 

That is why I want a copy of the document. It has nothing to do with section 78 of CCA 1974. My action is not about what I am entitled to under that section of the Act.

[slick132]

If they fail to respond to your CPR request and subsequent LBA, the next move is to file at court as per Pt2537's thread.

 

[militantconsumer]

If they fail to respond to your CPR request and subsequent LBA, the next move is to file at court as per Pt2537's thread.

 

 

Well, we've given them until mid-April to respond to letter 3.

 

If they send the new template mentioned by DD then it will be necessary to send them a letter 4 as a new LBA.

 

So it looks like, before we come to make our own N244 application, we'll get to see what happens with smt's case - in which the hearing is schedued for the end of April.

[angel_1]

hiya mili and all

 

thats what i was thinking ref smt's thread and what happens on their court request mid april,,,,,

 

well it will prove one way or another for the rest of us

 

 

have a fun day all and happy mother's day for all you mums out there:grin:

 

laters angel x

[slick132]

So it looks like, before we come to make our own N244 application, we'll get to see what happens with smt's case - in which the hearing is schedued for the end of April.

That sounds v sensible to me.

 

[slick132]

Smt37 was SUCCESSFUL and secured an order from the court for BC to produce the credit agreement.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/barclaycard/195898-cpr-strategy-important-success.html

[militantconsumer]

Thanks slick, we have a blank N244 form and are currently considering whether to do the same.

 

A few points to be considered first:-

 

1. PT's guide is still marked as draft/work in progress. I recently asked him on the "why you shouldn't use...." thead and he confirmed it's still work in progress.

 

2. We have a "proper" Barclaycard account so it is less likely that they don't have the original agreement. If they have it then it is a lot of effort to potentially get nowhere.

 

3. We want to see whether Barclaycard comply with the court order in SMT's case, or what additional work will be required to reach the point where you can stop paying without risking a default.

 

Having said all of the above, we are well up for it, just treading cautiously at the moment.

[slick132]

Yes, I think the cautious treading is still sensible. See how smt37's case is resolved first.

 

Re your points :-

 

1. Smt's case is the only one I know of so far. We have to see how other courts treat such Applications before we can say it's defo the way to progress.

 

2. I disagree - they are avoiding sending out BC agreements but you shouldn't assume yours is invalid or unavailable until you see it, or don't see it, respectively.

 

3. I agree entirely.

 

[militantconsumer]

While we wait to hear the outcome of various test cases we have decided to make a complaint to Barclaycard about the PPI on this account.

 

It may even be the case that these charges, together with interest (contractual and/or court 8%) are more than the remaining alleged outstanding balance.

 

In refusing to supply a copy of the agreement, Barclaycard has also not proved that we ever asked for or agreed to PPI. (this was specifically mentioned in each of our letters).

 

If they reject this complaint then we will go to the Financial Ombudsman Service.

 

We still have the other legal options open to us afterwards. You never know - during the complaints process, they may end up supplying some evidence that helps with these other avenues.

[slick132]

Hi MC,

 

You may be interested to learn that recently a few users have got their credit agreements from BC after a complaint to the FOS about BC's failure to supply it in response to a CCA request.

 

[militantconsumer]

Thanks Slick, that may affect the wording of our FOS complaint if and when Barclaycard refuse to refund the PPI. Perhaps we'll be able to kill two birds with one stone.

[slick132]

Hi MC,

 

I'd suggest keeping the two matters separate.

 

Try a complaint to FOS about the credit agreement, or lack thereof, now.

 

Do another complaint if/when they fail to sort out the PPI.

[militantconsumer]

Why do you suggest that order rather than the PPI first?

[slick132]

Because:-

 

1. You are ready to make the complaint about failure to supply a credit agreement now.

 

2. You said above that you have yet to see if BC refund PPI, hence I assume you are not ready to complain about this now.

 

3. I see nothing to be gained by including two unrelated topics in a single complaint to the FOS. Delays on either topic will cause delay to the other.

 

Just MHO.

[militantconsumer]

Well, we already sent off the complaint about PPI to Barclaycard yesterday, so in about a week or two we will be in a position to complain about either/both to the FOS.

 

So in a couple of weeks we can choose to complain about either one. I am still leaning towards PPI as that could wipe the alleged debt out to zero without any need to go through court, whereas even if we obtain the agreement or knowledge that they don't have it, we still have to go to court before we can stop paying.

[militantconsumer]

Response from Barclaycard asking for more information from us. We have been asking them for more information for about a year. I assume they are trying to trick us into saying something that undermines our PPI complaint.

 

[militantconsumer]

And here is the questionnaire:

 

[militantconsumer]

I think we are going to send this in response:

 

Thank you for your letter dated X November 2009. I am pleased to hear that you are looking into my concerns.

 

I have been asking for a copy of my agreement since XXXXber 2008 because I believe that you have charged me for payment protection insurance without my permission. You have repeatedly refused to send this to me.

 

I do not see how it will assist your investigations if I fill in your questionnaire. Instead, please respond to my complaint by either proving that you had my permission to charge me for an insurance policy, or refunding the premiums to me (plus interest).

 

I look forward to hearing from you.

[slick132]

Hi MC,

 

If you decide to lodge a complaint with the FOS about BC's failure to supply the credit agreement, see here for a template letter I drafted - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/barclaycard/231901-tony3x-barclaycard.html

 

[militantconsumer]

Thanks Slick, I will wait and see how Barclaycard responds on the PPI, and then we will make a complaint to FOS about either or both of these issues.

[militantconsumer]

We have received a letter from Barclays saying (more or less) that they will be closing our complaint file if we do not complete the questionnaire within the next 10 days.

 

It is not clear if this has crossed with our letter referred to in post #44 above.

 

Either way it looks like this will be with the Financial Ombudsman by Christmas, at which point we shall use Slick's template letter so that our complaint includes the part about not supplying the credit agreement.

[slick132]

Drop them a line enclosing a copy of your letter from post #44 and tell BC that the matter remains unresolved and they cannot close their file.

 

Give them a final 7 days to supply your credit agreement and evidence that you agreed to PPI or you'll file a complaint with the FOS without further notice.

[militantconsumer]

We've received another nonsense standard letter about section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act.

 

Time to take your advice I think, and refer this all to the FOS.

[militantconsumer]

OUR ADDRESS

XX December 2009

The Financial Ombudsman Service

South Quay Plaza

183 Marsh Wall

London E14 9SR

Dear Sir or Madam

Dispute with Barclaycard a/c no. XXXX XXXX XXXX XXXX

I sent a CCA request to Barclaycard on XX January 2009 asking for a copy of the executed credit agreement for the above account and enclosed the £1 fee. I am entitled to this by virtue of s.78 Consumer Credit Act 1974.

They replied by sending me a set of Terms and Conditions (not specifically relating to me, or the account) saying this is all they are required to do.

I have been trying to find out why I have been charged hundreds of pounds in “Payment Protection Plan” on this account because I believe I never asked for this nor agreed to it being charged.

As well as the formal CCA request on XX January 2009, I wrote to Barclaycard on XX November 2008, XX January 2009, XX February 2009 and XX March 2009 asking for a copy of my agreement so that I could establish whether I signed up to Payment Protection when the account was opened. Every letter was either ignored or met with more copies of standard terms and conditions.

On XX November 2009 I specifically complained to Barclaycard about the Payment Protection and asked for a full refund of all premiums plus interest. They responded by asking me to complete a questionnaire.

I wrote back on XX November 2009 stating that I did not see how filling in a form would establish the contents of the original agreement, and that the requested document would prove whether or not Barclaycard had the right to charge me for Payment Protection insurance.

Barclaycard responded by sending me yet another copy of their standard terms and conditions, but have still not addressed my complaint.

Would you please intervene on my behalf, by contacting Barclaycard to ask that they send me a copy of the signed executed credit agreement, to which I am entitled, and that they either prove that they had my permission to charge me for Payment Protection, or that they refund all the premiums plus interest.

I have copies of all correspondence if you need to see this. The majority of letters were sent by either recorded or special delivery and I have proof of postage and receipt.

Your efforts in this matter will be greatly appreciated.

Yours faithfully

XXXXX