Vertex Data Science Ltd - Statutory Demand - ***WON + COSTS***

[chrismc]

Just remember thats 12 working days + 2 for postage. And 40 days for the SAR normal days +2.

sorry not teaching you to suck eggs just clarifying things;)

Thanks Al, understood

[chrismc]

Just remember thats 12 working days + 2 for postage. And 40 days for the Subject Access Request normal days +2.

sorry not teaching you to suck eggs just clarifying things:wink:

 

Yes thanks again, for your help. It gets awfully close to the 18 day deadline though doesn't it

[e28bigalbexley]

Yes on the CCA definitely but its all future ammo to chuck at them if they pursue the issue at least if you have the letters ready you could wait till more of the site team are on here tomorrow so they can give advise. 42 man for example. Im sure the 6 year statute must be the overriding thing here.

 

AL

 

One other thing if you do go with the set aside dont forget your costs:D

[chrismc]

Yes thanks Al, I will remember costs if it goes that route.

 

Cheers.

[42man]

If it was me in your shoes, I would get it set aside, you have 18 days from when you received it, do you still have the envelope ?, any proof you only received it close to the deadline, I think judges allow 2-3 days for service, to submit a 6.4 (set aside) and a (6.5) affadavit outside the 18+ 3 days will cost I think around £30.....edoes the demand contain the name and number of somebody you can contact ? if so ring them state that you will be setting this aside and claiming your full costs (if you can't get hold of them log the times and dates you tried)

 

For your affadavit I would put something along the lines of.

 

The debt is totally disputed.

 

The defendant can categorically state that they have never heard of the alleged creditor before let alone them having maintained any financial relationship with them. Indeed the defendant has NEVER received any paperwork from the alleged creditor

 

The defendant believes this is a vexatious and unlawful claim and has had no opportunity to dispute this alleged debt previously.

 

The alleged claimant has provided no proof whatsoever that this alleged debt is indeed mine..

 

The alleged creditor has provided no proof whatsoever that the alleged debt is barred by the Statute Of Limitations Act 1980

 

The alleged creditor has provided no statements for the duration of the account (it not being uncommon that some debts are made up entirely of excessive charges)

 

The alleged creditor has provided no notice of assignment for the debt.

 

The alleged creditor has provided no valid default notice in the prescribed format.

 

The alleged creditor has provided no deed of assignment for the debt.

 

In light of the evidence of the above and with no proof or correspondence from the alleged claimant or proof of any existence of the alleged debt, I request the judge dissmisses this unlawful and vexatious claim. I also request the judge order the alleged creditor to pay my costs as litigant in person, and in light of the upset and inconvenience this has caused myself and my family, I would also order the judge to make an indemnity award in my favour. I refer to.

 

Hammonds (a firm) v Pro-Fit USA Ltd [2007] EWHC 1998 (Ch)

 

In this case, Mr Justice Warren confirmed that it was usual for an indemnity award to be made:-

 

27 So far as disputed debts are concerned, the practice of the court is not to allow the insolvency regime to be used as a method of debt collection where there is a bona fide and substantial dispute as to the debt. Save in exceptional cases, the court will dismiss a petition based on such a debt (usually with an indemnity costs order against the petitioner).

[42man]

Take the forms 6.4 and 6.5 to your local court, get them to swear in your affadavit (this is usually free at a local county court - at a local solicitor it will cost £5 to do this or at central London courts it costs £12) Also just ring your local court to check they handle bankruptcies (if they don't they should be able to tell you the nearest that does).....

 

The forms 6.4 and 6.5 can be found electronically here -

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/dca-legal-successes/86067-getting-statutory-demand-set.html

[e28bigalbexley]

Thanks for that rapid response 42Man Im sure it goes along way to giving Chris the ability to get this set aside.

 

Thanks again AL

[chrismc]

Thanks for all that 42man

 

If it was me in your shoes, I would get it set aside, you have 18 days from when you received it, do you still have the envelope ?, any proof you only received it close to the deadline, I think judges allow 2-3 days for service, to submit a 6.4 (set aside) and a (6.5) affadavit outside the 18+ 3 days will cost I think around £30.....edoes the demand contain the name and number of somebody you can contact ? if so ring them state that you will be setting this aside and claiming your full costs (if you can't get hold of them log the times and dates you tried)

Yes I have the envelope, but there is nothing on it at all, only my name and address and nothing to say when it was hand delivered. The letter and SD is dated 9th Feb but it was put through my letterbox Friday 27th around 6.30pm (when the man rang the intercom) bang on the 18 day time limit? I got it Saturday 28th around 11am. I wondered if they had delivered it on or around the 18th day following the date on the documents on purpose?

 

What would be classed as the "Date of Service" in this situation?

 

Yes there is a name and contact details on the SD.

 

So you say it is not worth bothering with a CCA and SAR then?

Edited March 2, 2009 by chrismc

[42man]

My feeling is they are being particularly devious in posting it through so late....PLEASE MENTION THIS IN THE AFFADAVIT TOO....this is a severe abuse of the process !! GET THOSE FORMS IN ASAP.....!!!

 

A SAR could be a good idea, send to original creditor (if known) or to VERTEX (remember they have to comply in 40 days - claim back the £10 in your court costs too) however if the going is getting tough in court (although my feeling is the judge will NOT be happy with them but i'm just bearing in mind a worse case scenario) then you must request the judge order the other side to produce EVERYTHING...agreement, default notices, proof of stat barred etc etc.....IMO a judge will not allow this demand and the associated behaviour to stand....!!! common sense must prevail here.....

 

One thing that does worry me though is that they have taken the trouble to post this through the door, so it could POSSIBLY be a serious attempt...

 

I think you should 'fillet their donkey' and claim all your costs back....

 

This is a good SAR to use

 

You should send a £10 postal order with each one and address it to the Data Controller at each company:- (send recorded / guaranteed)

 

 

Data Protection Act 1998

 

Subject Access Request

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: xxxxxxxxx (or multiple numbers if more than one account)

 

Please supply me with all data that you hold on me. This includes in particular, but is not limited to, the following:-

 

1. The original signed, executed credit agreement and any terms and conditions that applied to the account at the time of default and at the time the account was opened.

2. Transcriptions of all telephone conversations recorded and any notes made in relation to telephone conversations by your company, or by any previous creditor

3. Where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my account formerly held with ORIGINAL CREDITOR.

4. True copies of any notice of assignment and/or default notice or enforcement notice that you or the original creditor sent me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

5. Documents relating to any insurance added to the account, including the insurance contract and terms and conditions, date it was added and deleted (if applicable).

6. Details of any collection charges added to the account; specifically, the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was calculated, and what the charge covers.

7. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of this account and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.

8. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998

9. A list of third party agencies to whom you have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

10. Copies of statements for the entire duration of the credit agreement.

 

I enclose the statutory maximum fee of £10. You have 40 days in which to comply.

If there is specific information which you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity, please let me know by return. However, please note that the above address is the one which you normally use to communicate my private business to me and which you have hitherto found to be acceptable.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

sign your name but put crosses through it so it can't be 'lifted'

[42man]

You submit your FULL costs to the court 24 hours before the hearing...or at least post them so they arrive 24 hours before....we'll leave this until later - but remind me if I forget !!!

[42man]

State in the affadavit that the demand was delivered through your letterbox on the (date) and that the date on the demand itself was (date) this clearly gave the defendant very limited time in which to respond, you believe this was a deliberate attempt to put the defendant at a disadvantage. You believe this was unlawful, and an abuse of the process

 

Then quote this...

 

Judge Boggis QC - RE AWAN - [2000] BPIR 241

'In my judgment, bankruptcy is one of the most serious forms of execution that can be brought against a debtor. In any bankruptcy proceedings it is, in my view, absolutely clear that the provisions as to service must be followed exactly. - JUDGE BOGGIS QC - SITTING AS A JUDGE OF THE HIGH COURT

[chrismc]

Thanks again for all that 42man will get cracking on it now.

 

You mentioned calling the guy named in the SD as the contact, is this wise, is it not just giving him a heads up to what I am doing? or is that the intention?

Edited March 2, 2009 by chrismc

[chrismc]

OK I have submitted my set aside application, now to re-do my SAR and get that and my CCA off to them.

[e28bigalbexley]

Thanks again for all that 42man will get cracking on it now.

 

You mentioned calling the guy named in the SD as the contact, is this wise, is it not just giving him a heads up to what I am doing? or is that the intention?

 

What i think 42man is saying is that you ring ring them and 9 times out of ten you wont be able to/or they wont talk to you regards the SD = another abuse of the process to mention in your set aside. If you are unlucky enough to be put through to the person dealing with the SD,and it must be the person named on the SD just follow 42mans advise re applying for set aside and you will be claiming costs. Withhold your phone number and only speak to the person named on the SD. Unfortunately your in a catch 22 situation but you have plenty of ammo to win this battle.

 

AL

[42man]

Yes spot on E28

 

statutory demand must show a named person or persons from the Creditor or their agent/solicitor whom you can contact directly. This is Rule 6.2 of The insolvency Rules 1986.

This means that if the statutory demand doesn't give the name of a person you can speak to then it is not valid. If you try to contact the named person and they won’t put you through then it is also invalid.

[chrismc]

There is a person named and a contact number, I will be calling him in a few minutes, and will let you know the outcome, this has not been put in my Affirdivit however, does it matter, I think there is already enough reasons listed in there.

 

Thanks again guys for your advice

Edited March 2, 2009 by chrismc

[chrismc]

OK I just called him, it rang for a while and an answerphone then came on, do I leave a message or keep calling back?

[e28bigalbexley]

personally i dont talk to those machines and you dont want him ringing you try once more in the morning if you like but i bet you get the same machine.

[chrismc]

Thanks again Al, I won't be leaving a message then, in a day or two they will be aware anyway, in fact tomorrow they will be aware as they will recieve my CCA and SAR copies.

[e28bigalbexley]

Just add it to your Set Aside that everytime you rang you got an answer phone so the contact details were incorrect.

 

 

No point in leaving a number to contact you as you were using a payphone:D

 

`al

[chrismc]

Ah yes of course, the payphone is a least a £10 bus ride away aswell

[chrismc]

I called and actually spoke to the contact on the SD this morning, and told him I had applied already for the SD to be set aside and letters were already in the post to both him and Vertex, he asked what my defence was, I told him various reasons and the court would let him know in due course, I then ended the conversation with him.

[e28bigalbexley]

morning chris

well i bet that b@ggered up his day:eek:

It will probably be a few weeks before the court lists it so you have time to scan a few threads and make notes on things for your defense.

And dont forget to get your costs sheet ready they need to be at the court at least 24 hrs before the hearing. LIP=£9.25 an hour+traveling 40p per mile+postage+parking/bus fares:D

 

 

AL

[chrismc]

morning chris

well i bet that b@ggered up his day:eek:

It will probably be a few weeks before the court lists it so you have time to scan a few threads and make notes on things for your defense.

And dont forget to get your costs sheet ready they need to be at the court at least 24 hrs before the hearing. LIP=£9.25 an hour+traveling 40p per mile+postage+parking/bus fares:D

 

 

AL

 

 

Thanks Al, yes he did sound a little surprised on the phone, but I am surprised it even got answered reading that most contact lines do not on here.

 

Anyway, like you say gives me time to do some research and my costs together etc etc.

[42man]

Well done.....they will be worried !!!