Mortgage Trust/Corp/HOMELOANS(No8)LLP debt - Godebt/Asset/phoenix - now shoos/Arrows

[firstship]

still having problems with Asset Recoveries,

I have written to them along the lines that I do not have a contract with them or the company they say they represent Phoenix Recoveries,

 

 

the latter may have purchased a debt but it is my contention that no contract exists between us and I therefore do not recognise any debt is this correct or am I making it up as I go along.

 

 

...Help on this please....Firstship

 

42man..re my previous thread do you think this is the correct route to go down or is this not going to hold up as a legal arguement,

 

 

somewhere I have read a thread along the lines of

 

 

No Conract,No Agreement,debt not recognised.

...ANY THOUGHTS....

..Firstship

[johnnymitch]

Hi firstship,

I'm no expert on this subject , but it would seem to me that Asset Recoveries need to explain where they are coming form , who they are representing , and by what authority they can ask you for repayments.

 

As a purely cynical aside ..... the fact they're willing to 'accept' such a small proportion of the overall debt makes one wonder if they're entitled to it in the first place and is this a last-ditch attempt to get some money out of you ........

 

As with Bank CCAs / SARs ... IMHO.. if they can't produce documentary proof that they're entitled to collect ...... then make them put up .....or shut up !! If they were entitled to the full amount ... and could prove it - wouldn't they be going to court to recover it ?

 

Maybe someone else will have a different slant on this ... but , for what its worth .... that's my two penn'orth

[42man]

I think you should try issuing a CPR31.16 to them requesting specifically..

 

The notice of assignment.

 

The deed of assignment.

 

You could also try this on the original creditor.....Do I presume you were repo'd ?

 

With the original creditor having zero documentation, My feeling is that unless they produce some meaningful documentation then they MAY struggle to enforce.....

 

If you're scratching your head over CPR31.16 then have a look at this.... - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/173201-why-you-shouldnt-use.html - this has been used successfully for somebody to disclose documents to ascertain IF you potentially have a case....it can be applied to your own situation.

[firstship]

42man...johnmitch.thanks for your replies as usual helpful comments and threads to follow,keep you in the picture...........Firstship

[firstship]

Now well over 60 days and no reply to my SAR

 

 

,during this period I have written to this Dodgy DCA 3 times,

still no reply

-- my final letter today suggesting they write to me confirming Declaratory Relief (like this Johnnymitch) as I am 99% sure most of the documents asked for in full detail they cannot supply.

 

 

This debt was purchased by Phoenix Recoveries over 3 years ago but they forgot to tell me and the original Mortgage Company also forgot as well.

 

 

In 2009 I managed to get a copy of the Deed of Assignment .....

 

 

..........QUESTION should they not produce the detailed documents with full explanations of each item,

what is my best course of action as I cannot see them sending a letter confirming Declaratory Relief as much as I would like this to Happen...

....any ideas...thanks Firstship

 

Any Ideas Regarding My Question.......thanks....fs

 

QUESTIONS...........(1)No reply to my SAR over 60 days expired

 

 

in fact no reply to 3 letters apart from

 

 

1 today demanding payment.

 

 

(2)My SAR asked for specific details regarding charges made under obscure headings,

I have asked for full details of who they where paid to and what for.

 

 

(3) Phoenix Recoveries bought the debt in 2007 but did not bother to tell me nor did the Mortgage Company

 

 

(4)Have now got hold of a Deed of Assignment over 34 months after the sale

(42 Man advised this,and it worked thankyou 42man)

 

 

(5) Asset Recoveries say they represent Phoenix Recoveries but neither companies have produced a letter confirming their legal right to collect monies from me

 

 

(6)As Asset Recoveries cannot produce any documentation re my SAR do I have to pay any money to them( I am not paying at present)

 

 

(7) Can I say to Asset/Phoenix as you cannot produce any documentation requested I consider the account closed,or what is the best move forward???????...thanks FS

[loopinlouie]

No proof of debt, no payments:D

 

They would have to get a ccj in which was non complied with to come after you and for that they need a valid agreement in the first place.

[johnnymitch]

Hi FS ,

 

Loopinlouie is absolutely right - no agreement .... they cannot collect . There are several ways to treat this , perhaps this link will give you some idea on how to proceed :

 

finding faulty cca agreements after a ccj?? - The Consumer Forums

 

But basically, the ball is in their court ..... they can't take you to court without providing you with a true copy of the documentation they would rely on ... They have to supply you with that under Civil Procedural Regulations (CPRs) ......so really you can sit back and ignore them - or push them into abandoning their claim that you owe them money ... the link above should help with that ..... . I know it mentions CCJ , but the post I gave you (#12) is 'where no CCJ is in force' ..........

Edited January 13, 2010 by johnnymitch

[firstship]

JOHNNYMITCH....LOOPINLOUIE.............Thanks to you both for your very speedy replies.JM have had a look at the link just what I need,keep you in the picture on this.thanks again....FS

[firstship]

Hi....

.Yet another month has gone by SAR dated November 2009 no response of any type

 

 

.My last and I hope final letter to ARUK and Phoenix Recoveries 20th January 2010

No notice of Assignment thus in Default of the Law of Property Act 1925 section135..

.........as Phoenix Recoveries have passed data to ARUK without my knowledge or permission

 

 

,and further Phoenix Recoveries have never written to me at any time both ARUK and Phoenix are in Default of the Data Protection Act....

 

 

...No response in any shape or form to my SAR,

and as we aware these DCAs usually find it very difficult to produce much if any documentation concerning the account.

 

 

I have already SARd the Mortgage Trust,

and they are unable to produce any documentation

,they apologised and stated the debt has been sold to Phoenix it is their problem,

so I am 99.9% sure ARUK/Phoenix cannot produce the documents I have requested,

 

 

I have suggested they remove this debt by use of Decalatory Relief as they are in Serious Default and Breach

.Unfortunatly I had been paying ARUK up until mid 2009 as I though they where yet another Debt Collector in a long line of DCAs the OC had been using

 

 

,it was not until ARUK asked for bigger payments (was paying £10) per month that they let slip that Phoenix had purchased the debt in 2007 and they ARUK where acting on their behalf,

 

 

I stopped paying them as you can see from earlier in my thread.

.do I continue to follow Jonnymitch and 42Mans thread, and just ignore ARUK/Phoenix..............FS

Edited February 23, 2010 by firstship
missed out last line

[johnnymitch]

I'd let 'em sweat firstship, but others may have a different view ..

 

What I was wondering ... how did your request for Declaratory Relief go with them ..... and how did you word it please ?

 

Thanks in advance

[firstship]

Johnnymitch..

..Hi.....thanks for your reply,,

to answer your questions,

had no reply from ARUK in 5 weeks...

 

 

...my final paragraph to them.

..On reading the history behind this complaint it would appear that neither the Mortgage Trust or Phoenix Recoveries are in a position to comply with the DSAR in full and on taking advice I would suggest should this be the case that the only reasonable course of action is to remove this debt by the use of Decalatory Relief....JM...I hope this is the correct method of suggesting Decalatory Relief??????FS

[johnnymitch]

It may be ok to hint at it Firstship , but it can only be granted by a court . It may be though that they will give in and abandon the debt rather than go down that road .... make sure that you get their confirmation in writing though ........

 

I'm not sure how to set the ball rolling properly on DR .... but there will I hope be someone who can ..... .

[firstship]

JM................thanks very much,still no reply from ARUK Asset Recoveries,I hope they will just give up,thanks again....FS

[firstship]

Johnnymitch................Had a letter from ARUK,I do not want to put it on the screen as it is very identifiable..................final para...we have been instructed by our client Phoenix Recoveries,to take no further action.Pleased with this but also slightly concerned that this may not be the end of it.Do not want to write to ARUK as it might rock the boat,any thoughts on this...........................Thanks FS

[johnnymitch]

Hi FS

 

I'd say that's a result ! . Just keep that letter in a very safe place and have some copies made too .... just in case someone tries to resurrect it ....... but I'd say you'll hear no more on that front .

They'd be crazy to try to pursue any court action now, ..... so ... file and forget I'd say .....

 

Congratulations !

[firstship]

JM............thanks very much for quick reply,will follow your pointers.....FS

[firstship]

Wow!

this has raised it's ugly head again,

 

last contact April 2010,

stating been instructed by their client to take no further action.

 

Now Arrow have got their hands on this debt,

and they are asking me by letter to get in touch with Shoosmiths of Northampton.

 

Apart from doing nothing ,

 

how do I stand with this

 

Thanks

FS

[dx100uk]

seems like arrows have bought a new portfolio and are trying to spoof people into a panic settlement .

 

sadly there are mugs out there.

 

here another one like you

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?480761-shoos-for-Arrow-chasing-11yrs-old-NRAM-shortfall

[firstship]

Thanks for your reply,as this is a Mortgage debt does 12 year SB apply?

 

Arrow have not supplied a transfer of ownership of the debt.

 

The last owner who sold the debt Phoenix Recoveries, through AR UK wrote to me in 2010 stating that they had been instructed by their client Phoenix to take no further action.

 

Should I respond to Shoosmith and send them a copy of the letter, or Do Nothing

 

thanks FS

[unclebulgaria67]

Yes i think Shoosmiths need to be aware of previous decisions by owners of the debt. It is relevant to them, as they might not be aware of this history of the debt.

[dx100uk]

pers id not go sending anything.

unless you have moved from the address whereby you last wrote to any of them.

 

 

only invites stupid letter tennis.

 

 

dx

[firstship]

OK many thanks for your replies

 

FS

[firstship]

Shoosmiths have advised me that as I have not responded to their letter they are Consulting their client to produce further information.Which from memory is a standard reply?

 

There has been NO Assignment Letters from Arrow or from the previous owner of the debt, Shoosmiths state in their letter that Mortgage Corporation where the owners, which is not the case.No Assignment letter from Arrow or Debt owner,are they required to produce the Letters of Assignment before making any claims of any debt outstanding????

 

FS

[dx100uk]

to give some illusion this is going up some sort of chain

its not.

 

 

same printer same office.

[unclebulgaria67]

Shoosmiths have advised me that as I have not responded to their letter they are Consulting their client to produce further information.Which from memory is a standard reply?

 

There has been NO Assignment Letters from Arrow or from the previous owner of the debt, Shoosmiths state in their letter that Mortgage Corporation where the owners, which is not the case.No Assignment letter from Arrow or Debt owner,are they required to produce the Letters of Assignment before making any claims of any debt outstanding????

 

FS

 

Shoosmiths were chasing a Halifax mortgage debt owned by someone else who posted to CAG going back a long time ago. The person concerned had moved on and remarried. To them it was ancient history.

 

In the case concerned, Shoosmiths kept writing as Halifax wanted to pursue the matter. It ended up going to the FOS who were useless and afterwards Shoosmiths just gave up. But it took over a year before they stopped writing.

 

If Shoosmiths come back saying their client wants to pursue, perhaps you need to advise them what happened 7 years ago.