Where do I start?!

[cupcake68]

Thanks so much!

 

I am going to start answering them and telling them to put it in writing. I just thought that missing one payment they might be easy on me this month if they just thought it might be an oversight. Silly I know!

 

When they call and I am not around the children I will take your advice.

[GamekeeperToPoacher]

Hi,

 

I have now started asking for their full name and employee reference number as I would like to call them as a witness in my harassment claim.

 

GKTP

[cupcake68]

I love all these ideas.

 

I just don't have the fight in me any more! Life has become so emotionally draining I just can't face another unnecessary fight. I suppose that says it all ....... This one's not unnecessary, it is actually the most important fight I have on at the moment!!!

 

Off to find some inner strength from somewhere! (used to have it by the bucket loads, just not sure where I have put it now!)

[magiciansgirl]

Oh dear, poor you. These people should not be phoning you on a Saturday, and it is indeed harassment. I know it's hard to stay positive and strong when you feel beleagured but things WILL change for you; I know it. This time two years ago I was in despair and in danger of repossession by bloody Blemain. By fighting back even if I didn't feel like it I'm in a better place now. Try and do just one thing everyday to move forward; eg could you do any PPI reclaiming? Template letters on here and lots of people to help. But if nothing else, I used to find that 30 minutes in a hot and scented bath bucked me up tremendously.... thinking of you and hoping you are feeling less stressed today.

[underdog13]

I know it's a hassle, but would it be worth changing your phone number?

[cupcake68]

Hi

 

Thanks for the support!

 

Should I have to change my number? I have had it for years!

 

I was amazed when it was quiet all day yesterday until half past 8 (surely that is a bit much?! after all I could have been ill and just missed a payment!)

 

We've been out this evening and just got home to 4 calls all from one credit card(!!!)

 

I am getting a bit braver, maybe tomorrow I will be brave enough to answer!

 

I have always turned down the option of PPI because we have always been self employed (think maybe I should have taken it out in hindsight!) but a hot scented bath sounds like a lovely idea!

 

Everyones support really does help. Thank you x

[underdog13]

I'm not saying you should have to change your number, just mentioning it as an option if it really gets too much:)

[cupcake68]

Sorry!

 

I wasn't meaning to sound ungrateful for the support! I didn't think you were saying I should have to change my number (I was just trying to find that fighting spirit and I found it in the wrong place!)

 

Had a letter from mint today informing of default charges added to our account! (Boy! they don't hang around do they?) I wonder if that is because we missed one payment or because they received our CCA request?!

[underdog13]

Hi Esile,

 

I didn't think you were being ungrateful:) I can understand your frustration - it's not right that you should have to change your phone number, but sometimes we just have to do what is best for us, whatever the principles.

 

Anyway, it sounds like you're not so bothered by them now. Glad to hear you've got your fighting spirit back. I was bombarded with calls to begin with, which I either ignored (had an answer phone, so I could call anyone back if they were someone I actually wanted to speak to), and if the ringing drove me crazy I took the phone off the hook for a while. Eventually they pretty much gave up when they realised they weren't going to get anywhere. It did take a while though.

 

The default charges are for missed payments, nothing to do with your CCA request. They certainly don't waste any time. RBS policy is to send a DN and terminate after 3 months.

 

One good thing that seems to be emerging is a new fear of the OFT from the creds. Mint got very windy when I told them I had made a complaint about them:D

[cupcake68]

HELP!!!

 

One of the cards we CCA'd was n/wide (we have 3 between the 3 of us with them).

 

They have called my Dad and left a message saying. Thanks for your letter we have a bit of a problem if you could call our customer services on this number or you could write to us again.

 

What the hell do they mean? What are we supposed to write again to say? Is this a delaying tactic to try and put us off the scent? What should he say when he calls back? I knew they tried all sorts but now scared we might say the wrong thing on the phone!!

 

Ps Underdog - what did you threaten them over? Was it phone calls?

[supasnooper]

Don't phone them back !!

 

Send them the phone harrassment letter.

 

If they call again, read out the harrassment letter to them...............or just put the phone down on them.

 

Everything must be in writing.

 

I know this can be tiring and wearysome but you need to get things in writing.

 

Deep breath, chin up and be brave.

 

Keep going, you're doing very well so far.

[cupcake68]

So I should complain about them calling even if it's about the CCA request?

 

Have I missed something? I know they shouldn't call be about missed payment but are you impying they are using the letter as an excuse to speak to us and then start badgering us about payment?

 

If so what should I write in my next letter. except the harassment bit? Do I just send the harassment and then treat it as unenforceable when they do not reply to my CCA request or do I need to request again since this call?

 

Sorry if I appear dumb but this is a real learning curve for me!

 

Ps Thanks so much for the support!

[supasnooper]

They won't be calling about a CCA request - they will be inviting you to pay them and put themselves at the top of the repayment list..... so yes you are learning fast.

 

An agreement can only be unenforceable if it does not meet certain criteria. Read these threads ( courtesy of 42man and steven4064 respectively ) -

 

Is My Agreement Enforceable - Useful

 

Consumer Credit Agreements

 

 

I am imaging that you are a little confused about the terminology used on the site and that you are hoping that if the creditors do not respond to your Consumer Credit Card Agreement by 12 + 2 working days then you can place the account "in dispute"

 

If Nationwide are excessively phoning you, then send off the phone harrassment letter ASAP. Also speak to your phone service provider to see if they can block their calls.

 

Do send all letters by recorded delivery.

[cupcake68]

Hi Supasnooper

 

I obviously am confused!

 

I have had a brief look at the two threads you suggest but it's getting late and I can't find the answer to my question.

 

So would you mind please putting me straight?

 

What happens if the credit cards do not send me a copy of an agreement within the 14 days?

 

What is my next move if I don't hear from them?

 

Sorry for seeming dumb!

[underdog13]

Ps Underdog - what did you threaten them over? Was it phone calls?

 

General breaching of the OFT guidelines on debt collection - you name it they broke it;)

[supasnooper]

If you do not recieve a copy of the CCA after 12+2 working days then you may wish to put the account "into dispute", as it could be presumed that no valid agreement is available upon which the account is based.

 

At this point, the creditor would not be able to enforce collection on the account in court as there is no valid agreement to support any claim.

 

To put an account into dispute, you would need to send the creditor a letter stating this -

see below

 

Your name,

Your address

XXXXXX,

Postcode

Date, 2009

 

The Loan Company

Company House,

Church Street,

Newtown,

Kent,

R1 7HG

 

Account In Dispute

 

Ref:

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Thank you for your letter of xx/xx/xx, the contents of which have been noted.

 

You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account.

 

On **DATE** I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8. A copy of which is enclosed for your perusal and ease of reference.

You have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account entered default on **DATE**.

 

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document. In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.

 

Furthermore

 

You are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before your client enters into a default situation.

 

This limit has expired.

 

As you are no doubt aware section 77(6) states:

 

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)

 

(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.

 

Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

 

As you have failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, Failed to send a full statement of the account and Failed to provide any of the documentation requested.

 

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

 

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect.

 

This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

 

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data.

 

It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

 

Should you not respond within 14 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

 

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY

Action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

 

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

 

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* You may not pass the account to a third party.

* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit.

You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

 

Yours faithfully

Print your name

 

 

 

However, if the creditor, at any time in the future does supply a valid agreement, then the creditor could enforce collection on the account in court as they have a legally valid agreement.

 

You really need to see what documentation sent by the creditors and study the document to see if all the prescribed terms are embodied in the document which would make it enforceable or not.

[cupcake68]

Underdog - Why am I not surprised?! I look forward to dealing with all 30 of them and their 'little ways'!!!

 

Thanks Supasnoop I will indeed copy that letter as soon as their time is up.

 

I have told Dad not not return n/wide call and just keep a record of all calls coming in to help any harassment cases.

 

For now I guess we just sit tight and wait for our time to be up! Am I right in saying because I sent them recorded delivery I don't have to allow the extra 2 days? (not sure where now but I read that on here at some point) I sent the letters last Thursday so 14 working days takes up to the Wednesday before Easter so if I add another two days it's the Tuesday after Easter. Should I be gracious and wait until then anyway?!!!

[magiciansgirl]

Keep going Esile! Have no advice to offer on this as haven't done the CCA thing but I quite agree with those who have; don't phone them back!

 

Hugs, MG

[supasnooper]

The reason that you send all correspondence by Royal Mail recorded Delivery is so that you have proof that the letters were received. A signature of the receiver is available by going to the Royal Mail website, find the "trace an item" link then enter the reference number.

 

Sending by Recorded delivery does not shorten the time period allowed (12 + 2 working days from postage) for the CCA request.

 

As you have sent the requests on Thursday 19th March, they must reply on or before Monday 6th April, after which you may put the account into dispute.

 

 

A few good tips -

 

1/ Get a separate folder for each account or creditor to prevent muddled correspondence.

 

2/ Print off an extra copy of any correspondence you may send - just in case your pc crashes.

 

3/ Check and print off all Recorded Delivery signatures.

 

4/ Get a calendar or Date Wall planner and mark off all the neccessary dates.

 

5/ When you do get a response and you feel it needs advice, post a seperate new thread for each creditor so you get the correct advice for each one.

 

Hope this helps.

[cupcake68]

Thanks

 

It really does help!

 

Just one question. If I add 14 working (monday to friday except bank hols) to 19th March I get to 16th April which is a Tuesday. Should I be including Saturdays or something?

 

Ps MG - Thanks for being there!

[supasnooper]

Saturdays and Sundays are not working days

 

Your timeline so far -

 

Thur 19th March - CCA sent

Friday 20th - working day 1

Sat 21st

Sun 22nd

Mon 23rd - working day 2

Tue 24th - working day3

Wed 25th - working day 4

Thur 26th - working day 5

Fri 27th - working day 6

Sat 28th

Sun 29th

Mon 30th - working day 7

Tue 31st - working day 8

Wed 1st - working day 9

Thur 2nd - working day 10

Fri 3rd - working day 11

Sat 4th

Sun 5th

Mon 6th - working day 12

Tue 7th - working day 12 + 1

Wed 8th - working day 12 + 2

Edited March 25, 2009 by supasnooper
completeness

[cupcake68]

I AM SO STUPID!!!!!!!!!!

 

I have been counting 14 + 2 !! (I'm not normally this stupid I promise!)

 

So my 12 days takes me to 6th April +2 days takes me to 8th April. Is that the day I post my next letter to those I haven't heard from? Or should I wait until 9th?

 

Thanks for your help I obviously need someone to hold my hand (as you can see!). My mind has been shot to pieces in the last 6 months with everything that had gone on!

[supasnooper]

Your call on when you post the "in dispute" letter - but as I have said earlier, if they produce a valid CCA even a day later, then they may enforce the agreement whenever.

 

See what turns up first before you get ahead of yourself.

[cupcake68]

Thanks Supasnoop

 

I just like to know where I'm heading! Let's hope we get lots of unenforceable agreements sent within our 14 days!

[supasnooper]

Might be worth reading this thread re. dealing with Creditor phone calls

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/131475-dealing-dcas-phone-calls.html

 

Also, to help compile your harrassment log, dial 1471, make a note of the number and then google it or search on this site to find out who the phone call has originated from.