Forgot to buy a ticket at a NCP carpark

[trickywiki]

Hi,

My wife has used a NCP carpark for the last 15 years and normally buys a weekly ticket using a credit card. One day this week she put the ticket on the dash but hadn't realised that it had expired. In her defence she doesn't buy the ticket on the same day each week so it's not that easy to remember when it needs renewing. To the best of my knowledge this is the first time in 15 years that she forgot.

 

Whilst I realise that she should have paid for the ticket I think a £50 fine is unjust on the basis that she's been a very good customer over the years.

 

Would it be best to 'come clean', send them a cheque for the days parking and ask them to reconsider the PCC on the basis that she's been a good customer to date.

 

What would you advise?

 

Thanks in advance for any guidance

[david1605red]

NCP, as a private company, cannot issue "fines". They can invoice you for parking under contract law, however any penalty under contract law is illegal and unenforceable, as per the bank charges saga.

 

They are only entitled to claim their actual losses, in this case the fee for one day's parking. I would send them a cheque for that amount, and state that this is the limit of your liability, which you have now discharged in full.

 

They will no doubt send you all sorts of threatening letters after that; just ignore them all, NCP don't do court.

[Al27]

They are entitled to the amount of parking time you used ie. their actual losses. They have no legal powers to demand £50 - it's a [problem].

 

Now if they were nice and asked for what they are owed, then fair enough.

 

But since they're threatening you for an amount they are not entitled to:

 

• do not pay

• do not contact them

• ignore any letters you receive

• they will give up and go away

 

NCP are well known. Expect a couple of letters from them, and 2 from phoney 'solicitor' Graham White. Then they will give up and go away.

 

I would send them a cheque for that amount, and state that this is the limit of your liability, which you have now discharged in full.

 

That's one approach, but it won't stop them pursuing the £50. As NCP simply don't do anything apart from send letters (like all these private companies) I would advocate the ignore approach. Ignoring works every time.

[DDWales]

As above,- they will chase you for a while and you will hear from Graham White who will threaten all sorts of nonsense. They will give up soon after:)

[lamma]

is this a private car park or a council one run by NCP ?

[trickywiki]

I'm not sure if it's owned by NCP or owned by the council and run by NCP.

 

How do you tell? Do they write different demanding letters depending on which set up there is?

 

I'm going to send them a cheque for the parking fee so my conscience is clear and then ignore any replies.

 

As my wife often uses the car park are they likely to clamp her car if they tie up the unpaid PCC with her car?

[Al27]

Does it say 'Penalty Charge Notice' on it and mention the TMA 2004? If so, it will be a council one.

 

Assuming its a private ticket, it would be an offence to clamp your car.

[lamma]

AL27 is 99.9 percent right. Some PPCs quote the TMA and use the council wording !! Clearly Fraud. Never seen NCP do that - they prefer to claim authority under Railway Bye Laws when they have none, this could also be considered fraud (for the same reason of falsely claiming statutory powers).

[nero12]

AL27 is 99.9 percent right. Some PPCs quote the TMA and use the council wording !! Clearly Fraud. Never seen NCP do that - they prefer to claim authority under Railway Bye Laws when they have none, this could also be considered fraud (for the same reason of falsely claiming statutory powers).

just to back up the above, here is a fruadulant ppc ticket from securitas

 

 

naughty, naughty, very naughty !!

 

TMA 2004 I think not.

[pin1onu]

As my wife often uses the car park are they likely to clamp her car if they tie up the unpaid PCC with her car?

Clamping is a remedy for trespass only. They cannot clamp for debt which arises from an alleged breach of contract by the driver.

 

You or your wife would be within your rights to remove the clamp by whatever means at your disposal were that to occur (anglegrinder?).

 

Have a read of the clamping guide in the stickies section at the top of the thread for more information.

[Al27]

What did you do about that Securitas letter by the way?

 

I'd consider sending it to The Express or Daily Mail. They love Securitas / Group 4 stories.

[crem]

just to back up the above, here is a fruadulant ppc ticket from securitas

 

 

naughty, naughty, very naughty !!

 

TMA 2004 I think not.

 

A council PCN wouldn't have to refer to a VAT element!

[nero12]

What did you do about that Securitas letter by the way?

 

I'd consider sending it to The Express or Daily Mail. They love Securitas / Group 4 stories.

 

Treated as amateurs. offered court proceedings paid for by myself.

 

The usual bollox. They are twits.

 

TWITS edited. Replace the I with an A

 

LOL come on CAG!

 

An I for an A is worth it for these twits

Edited February 23, 2009 by nero12

[lamma]

That Securitas ticket is clear Fraud (and a rubbish one at that, an FPN under the the TMA !!). Report them to TS and the Police, insist on a crime number from the police, you may have to see an inspector to get this done (and explain it to them), the desk drone will be clueless and will just want to fob you off. Assume that Securitas have a contract with the Hospital and so write a compliant to the legal dept at the Hospital (copied to the NHS body that governs it), mention the Fraud to them. Quote S2 of Fraud Act 2006.

[trickywiki]

Does it say 'Penalty Charge Notice' on it and mention the TMA 2004? If so, it will be a council one.

 

Assuming its a private ticket, it would be an offence to clamp your car.

 

The notice does not say 'Penalty Charge Notice' it says it's a 'Parking Contravention Charge Notice' and does not mention TMA 2004 at all.

 

Thanks for all the advice - I've sent them a cheque for the parking fee together with the PCC number and that's it.

[Al27]

I'd be interested to see if they return your cheque.

 

Expect an 'appeal rejected' letter soon though with them still after the £50!

[My Real Name]

It is your responsibility to display a valid ticket otherwise the standard charge applies as per the clearly marked terms and conditions.

Which makes it a penalty charge, and therefore unlawful, as evidenced time and time again in the higher courts.

 

Any losses incurred have been restored to the land owner.

 

You're banging a very, very broken drum.

[lamma]

Travis, you are just so wrong. read this http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/parking-traffic-offences/164651-problems-ppcs-face.html?highlight=problems+ppc+face and this FAQs - PPCs - fighting back. The forces are aligned

[Al27]

Hi think Travis knows full well though Lamma

[trickywiki]

Hi,

I paid the parking fee as I said I would and sure enough in due course a 'Notice to Owner' letter arrived advising that I had paid the fee, deducting it from £100 and listed the amount outstanding. Not much of a surprise.

 

What was a surprise though, is that another letter from NCP arrived in the same post (separate envelope) headed Pre Legal Notification with a completely different Charge Notice Reference Number. They now seem to think I owe them £100 for another 'Parking Contravention' on a preceding date for which I have never received any communication. That is, they didn't attach a PCCN to the car and if they did and the wind blew it away, they haven't sent any previous letters in respect of this alledged 'offence'.

 

I haven't kept the parking ticket for the day in question (10 weeks ago) but my bank records show that I bought a weekly ticket the day before the offence.

 

Is this an intimidation tactic?

[lamma]

yes.

[Al27]

It's either intimidation or incompetence.

 

Either way, orginal advice stands:

 

• do not pay anything else

• do not contact them

• ignore any letters you receive

• they will give up and go away

[DDWales]

As above. Keep on the ignoring route. Be prepared for a few threatograms-approx 5/6 letters all in all. They will give up after that:D

[buzby]

I wouldn't think so - that requires 'intelligence'. However as you've already sent them money (when you shouldn't have) you're fair game!

[trickywiki]

Hi, back again for the next installment.

 

I've now received a Roxburghe debt collectors letter dated the 13th May which arrived today the 21st May from Jonathan Stock, stating I now owe them £140 for the alledged offence dated the 6th Feb. This relates to the fabricated 'offence' that came out of thin air, i.e. without a PCN being issued.

 

It says that the matter will be passed to Graham White their solicitors if we have not responded within 7 days, which would be a day before we received the letter!

 

As per your persistent advice I have not responded. In any case, if I did respond I would find it impossible to prove that I didn't contravene their parking regulations. It's quite intimidating knowing and being able to prove a parking ticket was purchased for the period in question yet realising that they would simply ignore any real facts. How is it that they can get away with it?

 

Appreciate any advice