Welcome Finance- Major problem!

[ElMarinero]

Hi there,

I bought my car 3 years ago with Welcome finance.

It's a T reg Vauxhall Tigra and was priced £3995.

I must point out it was not through Welcome Car finance (where you get the car from them) Welcome Financial actually provided the finance for the car from a garage.

Obviously we got a very high interest deal as Welcome are 'sub-prime' lenders.

We took the finance over three years and were paying £225.92 per month- this worked out that we would pay double the car's price. Over 8K.

The 3 years is up at the end of March (next month).

 

I called Welcome tonight to ask how much is left oweing on the account.

I thought it would be around £300.

I have asked Welcome on numerous occasions for a full statement of account in the past, but they never ever gave me one.

I found out why tonight!

 

I was told it will not be paid up in March and that we still owe over 2k!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The guy put me through to an account manager and I asked her to explain this.

It turns out the majority of this figure is for charges.

Over the 3 years we have had some direct debits bounce.

We always called and paid the missed payments a little later, but it turns out they charge £10 for a phonecall, £5 for something else and £5 for something else on top- a lot of rubbish!

They once posted a hand delivered note through my door to tell me the direct debit hadn't gone through- for this they charge £25.

I told the woman that this would not amount to 2k- to which she agreed but then she also tried to say there were payments missed in the past- to my knowledge all payments that never went through were always paid. I would phone up and pay by debit or credit card if there was ever a problem at the bank.

I have no idea where they got this huge figure from.

As I say, I have asked 3 times in the past for a full breakdown of payments and charges on the account and I never recieved any.

Wonder why that is??????

 

The account manager left it with me that she would get a breakdown of charges/payments sent out to me, but that they have to request them through Head Office first.

If the past is anything to go by, I doubt I'll be getting any statement of account from them.

 

I phoned my local trading standards office tonight and told them everything.

they took Welcome's branch details from me and said they would investigate and call me within 3 days.

 

What the hell am I going to do? I can't afford to pay another 2k.

The car has lost a lot of value over the 3 years I've had it- I need a newer one if anything!

We bought an old car from a friend recently for my husband as we both work and need a car each.

We agreed to pay monthly payments to this friend as soon as the finance is up on my car.

Now that it apparently isn't finished in March, I can't make 2 payments for 2 cars:-o

 

The finance should be finished next month, so I actually own 99% of the car from what I've paid already.

 

What rights do I have and what should I do?

I have a weekly direct debit set up but payments should finish end of March as I said. I intend to cancel the DD at the end of March and dispute these charges.

 

I'm not totally sure what rights I have. Can they still take the car from me even though I more or less own it?

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks

[Ell-enn]

Hi, they can't take the car without a court order. Was there any of their famous payment protection insurance added on to the car finance - that might account for some of the £2k. Do you have the original agreement you signed?

 

Ell-enn

[ElMarinero]

Yes I do still have the agreement and yes we have the PPI included in this.

Thanks

[Ell-enn]

OK, can you list the figures as shown on the agreement - i.e. price of car, price of PPI and number and amount of installments, interest rate etc?

[ElMarinero]

Ok here goes:

 

amount of credit for goods: £3,995.00

amount of credit for the insurances: £1,305.32

Total amount of credit: £5,300.32

 

duration of agreement 36 months

 

Total amount payable for goods: £6,301.36

Total amount payable for the insurances: £1,931.76

Total amount payable: £8,233.12

 

Plus the option fee which is payable at the same time as the final weekly/monthly payment.

Option fee: £100.00

 

 

So the PPI is included in this figure. I forgot about the so called 'option fee' which is an extra £100 paid with the last payment.

I have no idea what an option fee is- obviously one last 'dreamed up' fee to squeeze that last bit of cash out of you before the agreement is up.

[ElMarinero]

Sorry, from what I can see interest rate is 35.6% and amount of payments is 36.

[Ell-enn]

Ok, well 36 payments of £225.92 = £7533.20 so you were never going to pay it off in 36 payments!!

 

Do you have a scanner? if so can you scan and post the agreement on here - you will need to blank out the agreement number and your name and address + anything else that could identify you (car reg no, phone numbers etc).

 

We can then look to see if the agreement is enforceable. A lot of Welcome's agreements from a few years back were not.

 

Ell-enn

[havinastella]

Ok, well 36 payments of £225.92 = £7533.20 so you were never going to pay it off in 36 payments!!

 

Do you have a scanner? if so can you scan and post the agreement on here - you will need to blank out the agreement number and your name and address + anything else that could identify you (car reg no, phone numbers etc).

 

We can then look to see if the agreement is enforceable. A lot of Welcome's agreements from a few years back were not.

 

Ell-enn

 

Ellen, you need a new calculator

 

£225.92 * 36 = £8133.12 + £100 = £8233.12

 

Jogs

[Ell-enn]

Sorry - didn't use a calculator, thought I could do it in my head obviously more brain dead than usual.

 

ElMarinero, do you have bank statements showing how many payments you have made?

 

If we could see the agreement that would be good.

 

Ell-enn

[ElMarinero]

Unfortunately I don't have a scanner, a bit of a pain!

Could you tell me what I need to look for in the contract to see if the agreement is enforcable? I can have a read through it and try to locate the bits you're looking for.

 

Thanks for your help. I really appreciate it.

[Ell-enn]

Hi, have a look here: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/105315-my-agreement-enforceable-useful.html

 

Ell-enn

[ElMarinero]

Many thanks. Will take a look

[havinastella]

El,

 

If it was me, I'd make the final payment. I would also send them a letter explaining that according to your records all payments have been made and you will not be paying anymore towards unfair charges levied against your account.

 

Then point out that the PPI was missold for whatever reason (have a look in the PPI forum) as Welcome were renown for mis selling PPI and were heavily fined for it. You will then claim the original 1305 + contractual interest @ 34.6, this works out roughly to £3067.12.

 

If you have to issue court papers for the return of the PPI, you can then claim another 8% bring the total to around £4000.

 

Make sure you go through with the claim

 

Jogs

[ElMarinero]

Ok from what I can see they have listed all the details of payments, a breakdown of what is owed and the manner in which payment is to be made- therefore I take it this means the contract is enforcable.

 

On looking through the smallprint, it states that we have to pay any reasonable expenses incurred by them for failed payments.

it says:

 

''You hereby agree to pay us on demand all reasonable costs we incurr in respect of breaches made by you of this agreement, including legal costs, court fees, bank charges on return cheques or direct debits, costs incurred in tracing you if you have changed address without notifying us or in tracing the whereabouts of the goods, writing letters, making telelphone calls or additional personal calls to your home.

 

It states in this section 'reasonable costs'.

Their costs for letters and telephone calls are unreasonable!

Plus, I have only ever recieved a handful of letters informing us of charging us for returned direct debits- I must have missed a lot of letters for the charges to be so high!

What is to stop them saying they visited and we weren't at home and applying several £25 charges?

What is to stop them making out they called us but actually didn't?

It's ridiculous.

I have a feeling I'm going to have a big fight on my hands here

[ElMarinero]

Thanks Havinastella.

I am not too familiar with the PPI thing. I will research it asap and look into this.

Thanks

[havinastella]

Ok from what I can see they have listed all the details of payments, a breakdown of what is owed and the manner in which payment is to be made- therefore I take it this means the contract is enforcable.

 

On looking through the smallprint, it states that we have to pay any reasonable expenses incurred by them for failed payments.

it says:

 

''You hereby agree to pay us on demand all reasonable costs we incurr in respect of breaches made by you of this agreement, including legal costs, court fees, bank charges on return cheques or direct debits, costs incurred in tracing you if you have changed address without notifying us or in tracing the whereabouts of the goods, writing letters, making telelphone calls or additional personal calls to your home.

 

It states in this section 'reasonable costs'.

Their costs for letters and telephone calls are unreasonable!

Plus, I have only ever recieved a handful of letters informing us of charging us for returned direct debits- I must have missed a lot of letters for the charges to be so high!

What is to stop them saying they visited and we weren't at home and applying several £25 charges?

What is to stop them making out they called us but actually didn't?

It's ridiculous.

I have a feeling I'm going to have a big fight on my hands here

 

No FIGHT at all.

 

These charges are unfair under consumer law . You just need to educate the idiots to this fact.

 

Jogs

[Ell-enn]

Roll up your sleeves and don't deal with the local branch idiots, they are either unable to read or just plain lazy as they never answer letters (apparently not told how to:rolleyes: ).

 

Only deal with head office and send any letters by recorded delivery, keep copies of your letters together with proof of posting and always print off the signature receipts for your recorded delivery letters from the Royal Mail website a few days after posting. Keep everything together in a file in date order starting with the agreement and any previous correspondence - you may need it all if you take them to court.

 

Ell-enn

[ElMarinero]

Thank you

[ElMarinero]

Sorry peeps,

Just one more thing!

I have had a look at the contract with regards to the PPI.

There is a section where it states:

I wish to purchase:

(and then underneath:)

Payment protection insurance (ticked, but not by us)

Mechanical breakdown insurance

Emergency recovery

Shortfall extra Insurance (ticked, but not by us)

Collision call

Other insurance

 

IT then says undernath:

I understand I am purchasing the product(s) ticked above on credit provided by you and that the terms relating to the credit for the products can be found above and overleaf in this agreement.

 

Your signature(s).....................................

 

There is NO signature from either of us, this part is blank!

We also did NOT tick these boxes, welcome finance did.

 

I'm ashamed to say, I didn't even notice it till now.

I thought the insurance just came in the total price.

We never requested it or ticked any boxes asking for it.

 

Is the blank signature part good evidence of this?

What should be the first step I take with this?

Should I carry on making payments to them or cancel them- seeing as it is them who actually owes us?

 

Many Thanks

[havinastella]

Sorry peeps,

Just one more thing!

I have had a look at the contract with regards to the PPI.

There is a section where it states:

I wish to purchase:

(and then underneath:)

Payment protection insurance (ticked, but not by us)

Mechanical breakdown insurance

Emergency recovery

Shortfall extra Insurance (ticked, but not by us)

Collision call

Other insurance

 

IT then says undernath:

I understand I am purchasing the product(s) ticked above on credit provided by you and that the terms relating to the credit for the products can be found above and overleaf in this agreement.

 

Your signature(s).....................................

 

There is NO signature from either of us, this part is blank!

We also did NOT tick these boxes, welcome finance did.

 

I'm ashamed to say, I didn't even notice it till now.

I thought the insurance just came in the total price.

We never requested it or ticked any boxes asking for it.

 

Is the blank signature part good evidence of this?

What should be the first step I take with this?

Should I carry on making payments to them or cancel them- seeing as it is them who actually owes us?

 

Many Thanks

 

Pay the last payment!!!!!!!!

 

And quite simply you have them by the bo**cks

 

Take a look in the PPI forums and start a new thread. You'll get more specialist help.

 

Jogs

[Conniff]

Can they still take the car from me even though I more or less own it?

 

Hi, they can't take the car without a court order.

 

You can hope they come and take the car because if they do, you will be entitled to a refund of every penny you have paid.

[DoubleVee]

I had a car a few years ago through this bunch, which was a shed on wheels for want of a better word. Once I got more than halfway through the term I decided to hand it back and what a nightmare I had. They just didn't want to know, and kept on trying to charge me for not paying the monthly instalments, despite sending numerous recorded letters to head office. In the end they claimed they'd need £1000, before they could take the vehicle back, the original price was £4000, and I'd made 22 of 36 payments.

 

Luckily for me my friend is a solicitor and he got onto them and took me down to see them and the vehicle was gone within days. Horrible horrible people to deal with, they once rang the house while we were on holiday and my parents were there checking the house over and what not and my Dad answered the phone and the bloke at Welcome told my Dad I owed them money and asked if he could go in and make the payment . I wish you luck.

[eeeezzzyy]

I totally agree i wish to god id never gotten involved with them...pure ****, but fingers crossed we all might be witnessing the slow painfull death of Cattles and ultimatly Welcome finance !!!!

[ElMarinero]

I have done a deperate post guys with an update. I thought this one would be at the back of the pile but anyway:

 

I cancelled the direct debit because the last payment was due 21st feb (3 days ago).

I have a letter heading for them explaining all of the above.

 

A guy called tonight and we had a huge vocal 'scrap' over the phone.

I tried to smack him downa nd he was talking over me the whole time.

 

He said their charges aren't unfair because we signed a contract agreeing too pay.

I argued that they can still be proved unfair as with the whole bank charges thing.

He said bank charges are different because we didn't sign a legal contract agreeing to pay them.

 

I found out it's actually nearer 3k they have 'dreamed up' for us to pay them.

I demanded to know why no statements of account had been recieved in 3 years.

He said some companies don't have to send them and that the law saying you do, only came into practice 6 months ago.

I said I believed it came into practice in 2006, he said I was wrong.

 

He had no answers for why I had no statements but said one is on it's way to me.

 

He told me If I didn't set up my direct debit again and continue paying, the car would be reposessed and legal action taken to recover the rest of the money.

 

The car was worth 3995 3 years ago. We've already paid nearly 8K to them.

Now they want another 3k!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He saus we have nearly £1500 in missed payments, but we darn well do not!

They were always on the phoen to me every time a DD was returned and I had to pay by debit or credit card over the phone.

I ahve no idea where they got that amount.

He said their system is as good as a calculator and extremely accurate!

 

He has made me think I'm going mad. I'm desperately worried.

My husband is about to lose a day's work because of the recession.

We have no savings, we are SKINT!

 

I told him I was getting legal advice and having it all checked over but I can't afford a solicitor.

 

I'm crying now with worry

[Conniff]

Don't start the DD again until you have received a full statement from them. If what they say they are sending is not what you want, then send them an sar (along with £10) and then you should be supplied with everything they have on you including a full statement from day one.

Edited February 24, 2009 by Conniff
Some info already given