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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
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      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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Rossendales Have No Signed Walking Agreement but charged me for a van today


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Guest BiG SiD
Just wondering if you are a bailiff BIG SID they cant just take whatever they like youre talking rubbish there

 

If I was a bailiff, then you'd think I'd at least know what I was talking about! But you clearly know more than I do!!!

 

With the greatest of respect, you are here trying to take advice from a forum packed full of people who have little or no knowledge as to what they are talking about! I've seen on these forum perhaps 3 or 4 people who offer any advice or suggestions that even are approach worthwhile. If you choose to believe those who are guessing and offering opinions of which they know nothing - then that is your choice. What I have stated is correct.

 

Like I say All the best.

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Guest BiG SiD

Fair enough - I do not need to defend what I said to anyone.

 

But if someone asks a question: Rossendales Have No Signed Walking Agreement but charged me for a van today. I will answer it. You don't like the answer - fine no problem.

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in my daughters case the bailiff had been in and done a levy which she did sign and van/attendance fees and i still got them removed because the were unlawful and just for the record a bailiff cannot charge V.A.T. on enforcement fees

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Fair enough - I do not need to defend what I said to anyone.

 

But if someone asks a question: Rossendales Have No Signed Walking Agreement but charged me for a van today. I will answer it. You don't like the answer - fine no problem.

 

ok so why do they bring a van if they havent got a list of items to take

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Guest BiG SiD
a bailiff cannot remove goods without a walking possession order

This is incorrect!

 

If a bailiff has levied distress (which I'm assuming here, if you have been charged a van fee, is exactly what has happened?) - the bailiff (if them goods are removeable on the Van visit - ie: a car outside or can gain peaceable access he/she is free to remove them without any WPA being entered into).

 

If a signed WPA was required for removal as you are suggesting - we could just offer the advice to let bailiffs in, let them do what they wanted to do, or to come as often as they liked, then just simply refuse to sign the WPA!!! - would be nothing they could do!! - which simply isn't the case.:(

 

Chris, Tomtubby!?... an interesting debate - but I've given up trying to explain it.:-)

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Lindsay - don't bother getting into the debate with him clearly he is set in his ways and seems intent on antagonising instead of helping......

 

anyway, my advice, contact the council and say that as you have paid them £190 direct and the DCA £130 you have calculated the liability order to be satisfied so can you have written confirmation of this - don't engage with them as to whhy you want this and mention nothing about charges to them etc - they have an automatic computer system that means they can log on to the DCA account to see payments made by you. Seeing this they should then be able to send confirmation the liability order has been satisfied. Thats all you need.

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Guest BiG SiD
He levied on my partners car on his visit (which isnt on my property anymore) not levied on anything inside,

They wont get in my house until the police come and allow it

 

Ok so this is what has happened then. The bailiff can charge you:

 

1) a first attendance to levy fee £24.50 - (or a levy fee, if the levy took place on this visit)

2) a second attendance to levy fee £18.00 - (or a levy fee, if the levy took place on this visit)

3) levy fee (it is for you NOT the bailiff to prove that the car is not yours. NB: a partners car may not be evidence enough to prevent further recovery- as it can deemed to be a jointly owned asset).

4) after all the trouble with WPA on this - they can't charge for this - if NOT signed!!!!

5) THEY HAVE COME BACK - HENCE THE VAN FEE!! - which yes is chargeable - sounds like the bailifff has charged correctly to me (not signing the WPA means nothing as suspected in this case - unless you have been incorrectly charged!!). If they accept the third party claim over the vehicle you may be able to persuade them to credit the respective fees/some of the fees on goodwill (NB: Do not confuse the charging of this (first?) Van fees with removal - ie: you still get charged if they remove or not).

 

The whereabout of the car (for Council Tax) when levied upon means nothing - the bailiff can levy anywhere in England & Wales.

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i am talking about property in the house obviously if there is garden furniture garden tools e.c.t. and they are in the garden he can levy them but he cannot break into your garden shed to levy them if he has levied your partners car and his name is on the council tax then he can levy that

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lindsay - seriously we could do circles on this all evening and until we know FACTS we are just speculating. Contact the council tomorrow and say you have paid enough to satisfy the liability order and can they confirm this and send you written confirmation. See what they say and then let us know, if we need to deal with anything else we can do it then. You need to know the exact position - they can tell you.

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indsayjane1

 

they are not withholding the £130 the bailiff get his fees first then they pay the council i read that on a post by tomtubby so i think that your bailiffs charges will come out of that

 

 

thats fine if their charges are 'legitimate and fair' - but it seems they are slightly taking the pee with this lady...we shall see I could be corrected! :p

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i absolutely agree there charges are unfair but that wont stop the bailiff taking there charges first i just don't want her to think that what she has paid will all go to the council

 

because they have levied her partners car the bailiff will see that as a lawful levy and she will have to write to the council and the bailiff

challenging the unlawful fees

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so as I said the best thing to do is contact the council and tell them between direct payment and the dca you have paid the liability and can they confirm. if they say yes happy days if they say they are outstanding we tackle that then. better to work in facts than supposition ;)

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Big Sid is right about seizure, a bailiff does not require a WPA to make a seizure, but he does need the debtor to sign a wpa if he intends to rely upon it.

 

And unless the bailiff has made a levy he can only charge for making a visit with a view to making a levy - max two - £24.50 for the 1st, £18.00 for the 2nd

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Hi

The council have been recieving payments from the bailiff, because when I phoned th council they told me all the amounts they had paid, but not the £130 which was paid a week before they added more charges on, they have taken there 2 visit fees out of previous amounts, Its just this £130 they are hanging onto, So I dont know what they are doing.

Ive just been reading some above posts, Can he charge me the van fees on the day he levied on the car, Im sure he cant because no levy was in place when he arrived, Im going to the council today to tell them if they want there £130 the bailiff has it, ill post back later

Edited by lindsayjane1
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Hi

The council have been recieving payments from the bailiff, because when I phoned th council they told me all the amounts they had paid, but not the £130 which was paid a week before they added more charges on, they have taken there 2 visit fees out of previous amounts, Its just this £130 they are hanging onto, So I dont know what they are doing.

Ive just been reading some above posts, Can he charge me the van fees on the day he levied on the car, Im sure he cant because no levy was in place when he arrived, Im going to the council today to tell them if they want there £130 the bailiff has it, ill post back later

 

 

I dont think there is anything stopping them from charging van fees on the same day they levied, although the purpose of the visit should be to levy not remove goods, otherwise how did they know what goods you have and size of van/transporter needed?

 

What I would do is to write to the bailiff company, you need to say something along the lines of you understand that when the bailiff visited on xxxxx day that she/he levied on a vehicle registration xxxxx believing it was yours ( i take it that the liability order is in your sole name?) tell them that the car belongs to your boyfriend and most importantly enclose evidence to prove this photocopy of the log book etc. This should remove the levy and the associated van fee. Send a copy of this letter to the council, send recorded and keep a copy.

Edited by scatz1972
missed a word out
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