Recovery of charges when Bankrupt?

[hbc50l]

Hi there,

 

I am currently an un-discharged bankrupt, (discharge date September 2009)

 

Last year I commenced investigation into the recovery of various PPI charges that I had paid in the past. I received a number of rebuttals and in my ignorance, took matters no further.

 

Also, I reclaimed back bank charges from First Direct, again without success.

 

I have now issued CCA requests to all of my creditors and hopefully will determine that the debts are unenforceable. I presume that if this is the case, i would have strong grounds for claiming back any misold PPI costs and/or excessive charges.

 

However, in the event the debts are enforceable, bearing in mind my current situation is there a precedent for recovery of such charges?. I understand that any "windfalls" such as these could be claimed by the trustee in bankruptcy or offset against the stated debt, i dont have a major issue with this (or should i?)

 

Also and hopefully finally, what should happen to any hypothetical refund if it is made after discharge but commenced during the period?

 

Thanks in anticipation

[gizmo111]

Any amounts owing at the time of BR will be assets and should have been declared at the time.

Any dealing s with your creditors should be dealt with by the OR as it is now his job to deal with any assets due to you not yours.

[hbc50l]

Thanks for the response.

 

What if the trustee has expressed that they aren't too fussed about pursuing matters?

 

Below is an extract from an email received from the Trustee in Bankruptcy.

 

 

I believe that the defaults /CCJ’s stay on the record for 6 years from when they are registered and so you are correct in that they may remain in place for longer than 2014. However – your credit reference file will also reflect your bankruptcy order but then should also show that you are discharged from Bankruptcy and therefore you would be able to explain to any potential finance provider why the judgements are there and they will see that they were dealt with within the bankruptcy and that you are not liable. You are not liable for any of the debts once the bankruptcy order has been made – but as you know if there were already Judgements in the system prior to the bankruptcy order – these will remain. Judgements cannot be issued after the date of your bankruptcy.

[hbc50l]

FYI there were'nt any CCJ's prior to bankruptcy.

 

My aim is to remove the default notices where possible which will then hopefully just leave me with the issue of the bankruptcy order which I understand will affect my credit score on a sliding scale over the period 2008-2014.

[gizmo111]

I'm a little confused your first post in this thread doesn't mention defaults:confused:

[hbc50l]

Gizmo,

 

Not my intention to deceive, still learning the ropes here!

 

I have 9 OC's, 6 of which have issued DN's between 07/08 & 10/08 (BO dated 09/08)

 

2 OC's dont appear on Experian credit file (Amex & MBNA0

 

1 OC hasnt issued default notice (Black Horse) I received a DCA letter yesterday sent them "not your issue" letter as per template and sent letter to OC referring to BN & Trustee.

 

Hope this helps?

[gizmo111]

Any defaults should be registered before the BR, and not worth worrying about as these will drop off before the BR. Any after should not be there.

[hbc50l]

Gizmo, thats what I thought however, after checking my credit file with Experian.

 

My question to TiB:-

 

I have been shown a copy of my current credit record and have a query.

 

 

 

According to Experian, default notices are cleared from records after six years whether or not satisfied, I have a number of defaults which are dated up to 04/01/09 with a further number of credit accounts that have not yet been registered in default.

 

 

 

It was my understanding that my credit file would be "clean" six years from bankruptcy ie 01/09/14 but should the default notices prevail, the earliest "clean" date would be 04/01/15 and probably later than this.

 

And the response returned was:--

 

I believe that the defaults /CCJ’s stay on the record for 6 years from when they are registered and so you are correct in that they may remain in place for longer than 2014. However – your credit reference file will also reflect your bankruptcy order but then should also show that you are discharged from Bankruptcy and therefore you would be able to explain to any potential finance provider why the judgements are there and they will see that they were dealt with within the bankruptcy and that you are not liable. You are not liable for any of the debts once the bankruptcy order has been made – but as you know if there were already Judgements in the system prior to the bankruptcy order – these will remain. Judgements cannot be issued after the date of your bankruptcy.

 

This tells me that some adjustment must be made to ensure that upon discharge, all that is left is the BO?

 

Presently, this is clearly not the case and the TiB is not consitant with the advice on the forum.

[gizmo111]

So what exactly is on you credit file?

[hbc50l]

Please refer to attached file for a copy of my current file as at 11/02/09

 

I note that neither MBNA or AMEX have an entry shown!

Microsoft Word - File details 110209.pdf

[gizmo111]

All the defaults except the FD loan are before the BR, they will drop off before the BR. What is it you are trying to acheive?

[hbc50l]

Gizmo,

 

1. To determine if the debts were enforceable in the first place. (This would benefit the other creditors)

 

2. To ensure that that is no adverse information recorded after the BR date.

 

I wish I had found this site much earlier as I may well have been able to avoid any DN's but took "professional" advice which has cost me dearly

[gizmo111]

Gizmo,

 

1. To determine if the debts were enforceable in the first place. (This would benefit the other creditors)

 

No it wouldn't - just because they are unenforceable doesn't mean it doesn't exist. The accounts are no longer your concern, they come under the OR.

How do you think one debt being unenforceable would benefit another creditor?

2. To ensure that that is no adverse information recorded after the BR date.

 

I wish I had found this site much earlier as I may well have been able to avoid any DN's but took "professional" advice which has cost me dearly

 

 

Default notices are not your problem,your are BR and this will have more bearing on any future credit/mortgage applications than any amount of them will.

Check your file in about 3 years time and check there is nothing registered after the BR date, and if there is then get it removed. It is still too early to tell if anything may get on there in error.

[hbc50l]

Please allow me to pose a question

 

The scenario being that I have a claim for refund of bank charges stayed by First Direct ("FD") pending the OFT findings.

 

Subsequent to this, a BR order has been issued.

 

The OR/Trustee are too busy etc. to pursue anything and all matters have now been resolved pending discharge later this year.

 

On the assumption that judgement will fall in favour of the masses, who will subsequently get the benefit of the refunded charges?

 

I suspect that FD will seek to "lose" the charges and claim that they would not be refundable yet surely they should be re-paid to somebody.

 

For information, they were incurred prior to the BR period but, within the five years prior.

 

Surely they should be provided for the benefit of the creditors?

 

Please dont respond if you are only going to say BR therefore leave it to OR/Trustee etc as they either dont have the resource or inclination and thus allow the banks to rumble on and screw the average Joe.

 

Why should it be acceptable for the average person to be penalised and not the corporate body???

 

If I had known about this site 12 months ago things could have been very different for me know, its all about damage limitation.

[BankFodder]

They would still be liable to refund charges but these would then have to be discussed with your creditors

[hbc50l]

Hi BankFodder,

 

Thanks for the answer, TBH thats what I was thinking. Despite the Trustee being very good through the BR they are now giving some shaky advice and more to the point are expensive!

 

I am now on a quest to limit the adverse info, I still have the situation where Creditors are posting defaults six months after BR and have been told not to worry about it as future lenders(?) just need to have it explained that the BR supercedes them and the default dates after BR can just be ignored....Yeh like they will listen to that!!

 

As it turns out much of the debt appears to be un-enforecable so I am currently enlightening them. My own time is free and the cost of stamps is negligable so Its quite enjoyable in its own perverse way.

 

Hopefully through my own experiences I will be able to give something back to the forum by way of help and advice to others.

 

Keep up the great work.