Can I request CCA even after paying DCAs for over a year?

[teaandtoast]

Currently battling Capquest for OH's old debt (they've got nowhere yet) thanks to info from here.

 

Reading through the law and consumer rights got me thinking though....OH has various DCA debts being paid £1 a month thanks to CAB negotiation.

 

These include CL Finance, Metropolitan, Wescot.

 

After paying these for a couple of years can she then turn around and request a CCA?

 

I'm thinking if they have no CCA then would put us in a strong position to negotiate a final settlement amount?

 

Or should we just count our chickens they are not demanding any more money??

 

Any thoughts much appreciated.

[cerberusalert]

You can request a CCA at anytime. It's your right to ensure that there is an enforcable agreement in place & that the DCAs are entitled to collect on it.

[sploits]

If you requested the CCA and they could not provide it I personally would want a final settlement amount of £0.00. Why give the idiots even more money on a debt they cant prove without a valid CCA or enforceable CCA.

 

Well thats my thoughts anyway

[teaandtoast]

Haha those were my thoughts. It's a question of "if only I had known all this before...."

 

But obviously making the payments is an admission of the debt?

 

I should add that when these agreements were made by the CAB she was a fulltime student, hence only paying £1 a month. She has just started working full-time so would be liable to pay more.

 

So should we keep paying and send the CCA letter + £1 to them all?

[cerberusalert]

Keep paying normally until you receive the CCA. If they fail to provide it within 12 + 2 working days you are legally entitled to cease payment until they do. If it is unenforcable you can cease payment period.

 

Send the CCA request recorded delivery enclosing £1 postal order to them all.

[WorriedGirl]

Hi, I'm interested in this because I'm in the position at the moment where I have CCa'd the 2 debt collection agencies dealing with old credit card debt. One of the DCA's sent me something which looked like a copy of the application form I filled out at the airport and the other DCA still hasn't even acknowledged that they received my CCA request (sent recorded delivery and I have confirmed it was signed for via royal mail). Can i cease paying both of these until they comply? Or will it open a can of worms?

[WorriedGirl]

Just a quick note to say that, like teaandtoast, i am making regular payments to one of them still.

[cerberusalert]

Hi, I'm interested in this because I'm in the position at the moment where I have CCa'd the 2 debt collection agencies dealing with old credit card debt. One of the DCA's sent me something which looked like a copy of the application form I filled out at the airport and the other DCA still hasn't even acknowledged that they received my CCA request (sent recorded delivery and I have confirmed it was signed for via royal mail). Can i cease paying both of these until they comply? Or will it open a can of worms?

 

Although they haven't provided a valid CCA just now it doesn't mean that they won't in the future (albeit unlikely it's not unheard of). At the minute, they can't legally enforce the debt & it is your right to stop payment if you wish. But be warned most DCAs are persistent little chimps so are likely to send you more begging letters, but having said that they can be disposed of:D

 

If you do stop paying & they contact you again about payment just send the 'In Dispute' letter;

 

Account In Dispute

 

Ref:

 

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

 

 

Thank you for your letter of xx/xx/xx, the contents of which have been noted.

 

You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account.

On **DATE** I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8. A copy of which is enclosed for your perusal and ease of reference.

You have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account entered default on **DATE**.(12+2 days after you sent the CCA request)

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document.In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.

 

Furthermore;

 

You are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before your client enters into a default situation.

This limit has expired

 

As you are no doubt aware section 77(6) states:

 

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

 

As you have Failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, Failed to send a full statement of the account and Failed to provide any of the documentation requested.

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

 

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect.

This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

 

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data.

It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

Should you not respond within 14 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

 

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* You may not pass the account to a third party.

* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit. You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint. I therefore request a copy of your official complaints procedure which you are obliged to supply.

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

 

Yours faithfully,

[M1sterP]

But obviously making the payments is an admission of the debt?

 

Watching this thread with interest. I'm new here and I am making payments to various DCAs, so if this is an admission of the debt I'm wondering how strong my case is in requesting a CCA.

 

The general response here seems to be to hit the creditors with CCA requests. I think I'm safe in saying that a lot of us realise these debts are ours so morally we're wrong for trying to get out of paying - but these creditors more often than not employ horrible scaremongering tactics on people already under heavy stress. So if there are loopholes which allow us to get out of paying these debts then I'm all for it...... especially if it's true that they buy the debt for around 10% of its original value.

[WorriedGirl]

Hmm, I was thinking of the "in dispute" letter. Should I send this before I stop payments in order to see what way they are likely to proceed? Also, what happens if 6 years has passed since the cards went into default?

[cerberusalert]

It's not an admission of a debt, it is a payment of debt in error.

 

If there is no valid CCA then there is no valid agreement ergo no legal debt. Morally there may be a debt, but that would be between you & your conscience & a philosophical question that will haunt mankind for eternity. Besides, DCAs don't have a conscience so it's a 'no-brainer' anyway:)

[sploits]

M1sterP I would get a CCA request sent off to all the DCA's. you may find the CCA's to be unenforcable or they may not have them altogther. I agree in what you are saying that people are in debt and they should be paying it back. But why should people pay back debts that have been purchased for 10% of the orignal value? Why should people pay back all the unlawful charges that these idiots add on to the debt. Why should people be bullied into paying back increased amount of debt.

 

People CCA DCA's/creditors to find out if the DCA/creditor in question has the right to request the debt. Alot of the time DCA's hound people to pay debts that the seriously dont owe. Wrong name, wrong address etc so I would always strongly advise the CCA gets sent off.

 

People shouldnt run away from their debts but if they cant be enforced is it wrong not to pay??? I have had Lowell and TBI pester me for over £10k and Lowell couldnt provide the CCA so I have told them basically to get stuffed (plus alleged debt is 8-9 years old so statute barred) and TBI have gone quiet on me after horrific threatograms after i told them i was claiming all unlawful charges back. It worked out that they now owe me about £40

 

well thats my little rant over, hope i have made sense in my dribble

[sploits]

Ha Ceberusalert beat me to it. And you said it so much plainer than me. I will have to stop dribbling on when making a comment lol

[sploits]

WorriedGirl, if you havent made a payment or acknowledged the debt for 6 years then you most likely have a case of Statute Barred.

[teaandtoast]

Thanks for all your input here. I think it's definitely worth sending the CCA to each of them anyway to see what they come back with.

 

[cerberusalert]

Hmm, I was thinking of the "in dispute" letter. Should I send this before I stop payments in order to see what way they are likely to proceed? Also, what happens if 6 years has passed since the cards went into default?

 

 

 

If you read the bottom of the dispute letter it states what they cannot do legally.

 

The six year rule only has any effect if you haven't made any payments or acknowledged in writing that you owe the debt. If you haven't, then it would be deemed as 'Statute Barred' & unenforcable.

[WorriedGirl]

Yeah, I have been making payments. I was told somewhere else that a default "expires" after 6 years, so I was wondering if it is pointless to continue to pay debt after 6 years.

[M1sterP]

M1sterP I would get a CCA request sent off to all the DCA's. you may find the CCA's to be unenforcable or they may not have them altogther. I agree in what you are saying that people are in debt and they should be paying it back. But why should people pay back debts that have been purchased for 10% of the orignal value? Why should people pay back all the unlawful charges that these idiots add on to the debt. Why should people be bullied into paying back increased amount of debt.

 

People CCA DCA's/creditors to find out if the DCA/creditor in question has the right to request the debt. Alot of the time DCA's hound people to pay debts that the seriously dont owe. Wrong name, wrong address etc so I would always strongly advise the CCA gets sent off.

 

People shouldnt run away from their debts but if they cant be enforced is it wrong not to pay??? I have had Lowell and TBI pester me for over £10k and Lowell couldnt provide the CCA so I have told them basically to get stuffed (plus alleged debt is 8-9 years old so statute barred) and TBI have gone quiet on me after horrific threatograms after i told them i was claiming all unlawful charges back. It worked out that they now owe me about £40

 

well thats my little rant over, hope i have made sense in my dribble

 

Thanks sploits, yes it did make sense.

 

I'm not saying it's immoral to run away from debts - and totally agree that if these DCAs are using horrible tactics and scaring people then they deserve all they get when people fight fire with fire.

 

I think I'll go on the Creditexpert website to check exactly how much I've got owing to these companies (found it quite a useful site before, even if a bit expensive) then look to dish out CCA requests.

 

If I'm successful in getting out of paying these DCAs and they can't prove ownership of the debt, will the debt be discharged and therefore come off my credit report?

[sploits]

Yeah, I have been making payments. I was told somewhere else that a default "expires" after 6 years, so I was wondering if it is pointless to continue to pay debt after 6 years.

 

WorriedGirl I'm not entirely sure about this one. I assume the default would be removed off your credit file or expire but you would still owe the debt and as you have been making payments against it and this would be what the DCA would use as their argument.

 

Hopefully I'm wrong and if so I'm also hoping that Cerberusalert will point you in the right direction.

[sploits]

M1sterP If they can't prove the debt you could demand that they remove the debt/default from your credit file. I think thought that they would put Satisfied/Settled on your account which is neither use nor ornamant (I'm positive it still knocks your credit rating down) but again you could demnd that this is taken off also.

 

Firstly I would get the CCA requests out pronto and see what you get back and then we can see what the next port of call is

[cerberusalert]

Yeah, I have been making payments. I was told somewhere else that a default "expires" after 6 years, so I was wondering if it is pointless to continue to pay debt after 6 years.

 

A default only stays on your credit file for six years then it drops off. If you stop paying without legal reason they'll just default you again. This has nothing to do with being 'Statute Barred', even though the time frame is the same. For a debt to be statute barred no payment would have been made nor written admission of the debt within a six year period.