Kensington Mortgages & Life Insurance

[small paul]

Hi all. I lost my father recently in an unexpected way. Consequently he had no time to arrange his affairs before death leaving me with several headaches. The largest of which is a re-mortgage taken out with Kensington in 2003.

Due to my dad's inability to keep paperwork in any sort of coherent order I have been unable to find any documentation for this agreement other than bank statements showing the payments going out.

When he took this loan out he would have been 54 years old. I have been advised that it is likely that Kensington would have insisted on him taking life insurance to cover the mortgage considering his age but due to lack of paperwork I can't verify this. I have read a few (non too complimentary) posts about Kensington and have dealt with a few DCA's myself and am fully aware that these folks have been known to tell a porkie or two. Consequently I don't really want to ask them outright if there is an insurance on this loan as I feel that the answer would be "no" whatever the case may be.

So basically my question is this. Would Kensington have insisted on a 54 year old taking out life cover when remortgaging?

[jansus]

Firstly I am very sorry to hear your news - I am sure all of us are guilty of not keeping our paperwork in perfect order and as you say it has not helped your difficult situation.

 

I have read lots about Kensington but I would have thought the first thing would have been to ask the question in writing. I am guessing you are executor and will have to send them all the relevant documents?

 

You could always SAR them but that will take time.

 

I dont think any lender can force you to take out life assurance but of course they probably would have tried to ensure that he did have sufficient cover or in their case sell additional products. But really their security is in the property.

 

Sorry not really my area of expertise. Just really wanted to say sorry about your situation really.

[small paul]

You're correct in assuming that I am executor and I fully accept that I will have to speak/write to them sooner or later. My point is that if my dad had life cover on this mortgage would it be payable directly to Kensington or to his estate? The relevance of this is that from what I've read and experienced from some of these sub-prime lenders and sub-human DCA's it is entirely possible that they would claim on the life policy themselves (upon receipt of a death certificate) but claim no such policy exists and force us to pay again. I accept that no definitive answer can be given but just want to know whether Kensington are likely to have pushed life cover and if so how dodgy are they? Forgive me for casting aspertions but within the last 12 months I have had two DCA's try to prove debts with CCA's containing forged signatures so I know not all these financial "institutions" are honest. Are Kensington?

[gizmo111]

If there is life insurance it will most likely not be paid to Kensington but to whoever he was covered by - is there anything on any bank statements to indicate this? It is possible that the polciy was assigned to Kens but unlikely.

And even then I think they cannot claim it - it has to be executor and the estate pays them.

Your first step is to ask them for all your fathers paperwork, and a breakdown of how his payments were apportioned.

[jansus]

If you do a search on Kensington on the Forum - unfortunately you will see what experience most people have had with them.

 

I checked their web site and it seems to indicate that they do not have a compulsory requirement for endowment or life assurance - but I am not sure if there is a death benefit within any PPI they may have sold? this would not show up as a seperate premuim as may be included in the MP.

 

There are quite a few threads by Kensington borrowers so hopefully someone can answer your question. I think there are a few queries regarding this company regarding ERC and monthly arrears charges so I do think you need to keep your eye on them definitely.

[small paul]

Nothing on the bank statements to suggest a separate insurance. Would be nice to hear from a few of those who've had dealings with Kensington just to know if it's likely that insurance existed. Jansus, that's my point exactly, I have read far too much about this crew to trust them at all. I asked them for all relevant paperwork in a telephone call on 5th Jan but have received nothing so far. I think I may have to S.A.R them. From what I've read I wouldn't be at all surprised if they delayed the paperwork so that this month's payment will be missed so that they can start their charges. Or am I now just being too cynical?

[Mixed Nuts]

Sorry to hear of your sad loss. I'm a bit rusty on insurance as I have been out of the field for a while now but I've taken this from the Kensington website...

 

"What insurance policies do borrowers need?

 

It is a condition of any Kensington mortgage offer that borrowers have adequate Buildings Insurance cover in place to protect the full rebuild value of their property. We also suggest that borrowers should consider taking Contents Insurance. Our customers are free to obtain their insurance from a company of their choice, however for those arranging their own buildings insurance a one-off fee of £40 may be charged. This fee covers the cost of administration work involved in checking that the insurance policy is adequate to protect the property. Kensington only offer Home Insurance"

 

This looks to be their current criteria now but it may depend when your father took out the loan. I haven't delt with insurance for some time now as I've said but years ago, lenders could insist on the customer taking out life cover. The policy was then assigned to the lender meaning that the lender would physically hold the policy document and it would state on the policy document that the lender had an 'interest' in the life cover. Lenders usually hold these policy documents with the mortgage deed. Policy documents will always be the original policy document and a copy, the lender will hold the original and the customer would have the copy. The monthly premiums for the life cover would have had to come out of your fathers bank account and be paid to the life company. I don't recall Kensington being tied to a life company (in other words, they can only arrange life cover with a certain life company and no others) however, I may be wrong here. Also, even if they are not tied to a specific life company, they can still insist the life cover be arranged elsewhere and then have the policy assigned. If they were tied to a specific life company, they could very well have arranged a policy but the payment would show as a seperate payment on bank statements.

If there is an assigned policy, the proceeds of the policy ie the death benefit would be paid to the lender but after confirmation from you that this is what you want done - that is if the life company know there is an executor of the estate. If the policy isn't assigned, the death benefit would be paid to the estate unless it was in trust in which case it would go to the beneficiary - the person named on the policy to receive the death benefit.

You would need to verify this with someone up to date on insurance but I'm fairly sure this is right.

Good luck

[jansus]

I agree that was the case in the past - not now - you do not even have to assign endowment policies

 

 

I think you should SAR them.

 

Dont they freeze the mortgage when you send the relevent documents as executor?

[gizmo111]

Dont they freeze the mortgage when you send the relevent documents as executor?

 

No - all they will do is roll over the interest and add it to the balance whilst the estate is sorted. If there is immediate funds that can be accessed ( eg joint account) or someone can pay, then this would be the best option in the short term, especially if there is a surviving spouse.

[jansus]

If there were no funds to make payments then surely they would not make arrears charges in these circumstances , would they? I just still find it difficult to comprehend how things have changed since I worked for a BS years ago.

[gizmo111]

If there were no funds to make payments then surely they would not make arrears charges in these circumstances , would they? I just still find it difficult to comprehend how things have changed since I worked for a BS years ago.

 

No - what you would do is make an arrangement for non payment with the interest to be added to loan, so there are no arrears as such. Any charges could be claimed back by the estate.

[jansus]

With reference to the original question on our mortgage we had to state that we ourselves had arranged adequate life assurance and it was a question on the application form. We had to write down the numbers of the life policies - but they were not assigned and of course they could lapse at any time if they were not paid.

 

You could ask for a copy of the original agreement if you wanted to check if there wer any details - but it may have just been a question that your father had to tick a box without any details , but just a thought.

[small paul]

The plot thickens. Received a letter from Kensington yesterday. Started off with the usual condolences then rapidly descended into a demand for full repayment within 3 months. They also pointed out that all payments must be made during that period or charges would be added to the outstanding balance. None of the literature requested in the SAR was sent. Then today I was advised to check with Land Registry for details of my father's property and lo and behold it is still listed as the property of my mother, who died 12 years ago, and my father. Question is how did my dad manage to get a mortgage solely in his name on a property in joint names when the other person had passed away 6 or 7 years previously? Guess I just have to wait for the SAR stuff to arrive!

[small paul]

This company are quite the most foul people to deal with and that's from someone with experience of Rockwell, McKenzie Hall, Lowell etc. Their latest letter, received today, claims that they will not disclose the documents requested in my SAR as they relate to my father not to me. This would apparently breach data protection laws. Seems rather odd that they then continue by demanding full repayment within 3 months and reiterate that charges will be added for missed payments during that period. How, in the name of all that's holy, can they demand money from someone yet refuse to furnish that person with any details regarding the debt. I do hope I get to see the clown that signs these things in court. Come on Kensington, I don't expect you to have a heart but surely a brain isn't too much to ask?

[gizmo111]

I am assuming you are executor and have given them all the relevant details/copies of paperwork. They are correct they don't have to comply with an SAR as it only applies to live persons, but they have to give you details of the contracts etc so you know what you are paying off.

[small paul]

Yes I am executor and I have given them all the paperwork that I feel they need, i.e. a death certificate. If they need further paperwork all they have to do is ask but it seems the only letter they can write is "pay us our money now" in several different ways. So far they haven't even let me know how much that is. Maybe I should send them a blank cheque??????????????? Lol

[jansus]

Personally I would be writing a very strong complaint letter about their attitude at this difficult time.

 

I was not aware they did not have to do an SAR as I thought as executor you had the right to demand details.

 

However as the poster above said you should be able to get the details you need - so I would write a strong letter listing again exactly what you need to proceed and ask for a copy of their official complaints proceedure.

 

I am sure the FOS have a very thick file on them already.

 

You can not be expected just to pay up without all the relevant information.

[small paul]

Just an update on this folks. Kensington are still refusing to provide me with copies of any contracts etc as they claim they would be breaching Data Protection. They have been kind enough to let me know that the amount of the remortgage was £49k and that it was interest only. They are demanding repayment of £55k as they want arrangement, early settlement and deed return fees on top of the original loan. They have stated that they want this payment in full by 2nd April (3 months to the day from my father's death) and that repossession proceedings will commence if I fail to pay them by then. Well, oddly enough, I don't have that amount down the back of the sofa so looks like the battle will become a war. I am not even able to sell the house to pay them off as probate has not yet gone through. Still intrigued by the fact that the house is in the names of my father and mother, who died 12 years ago, yet the mortgage was taken solely by my father. Any mileage in this or is it just to be put down as poor admin by land registry?

[OLIVE.FAMILY]

Hi there Small paul. Like others i am so very sorry for the loss of your dad. You are being so very brave dealing with your oass and then also these guys. My hat goes off to you.

 

I have a mortgage with KMC and last year run into several problems with them. I am not going to sit here and tell you all about them as you are I am afraid learning very fast what they are cabable and incabable of doing.

 

I can remember having life insurance with Kensington which was not compolsory but "HIGHLY" recomended. The plan was seperate to the mortgage but it was with somebody they recomended. Scottish Provident was the name of the insurers. This, like I said was a seperate payment to them each month. I am not sure if KMC will hold that info as they are not obliged to keep that info. I learnt this the hard way as they did infact tell me I did not have PPI on a secured loan when I did. This led to repo hearings.

 

You really need to write to KMC and compalin. On my repo post I had the name and email address of KMC ceo. I will look through it and find it for you. I got results from complaining straight to this man.

 

olives xx

[midge61]

Hi

 

I would like to add my sympathies to you at this time as the others have.

 

I would phone the FOS and ask their advice on this. Surely as executor they have to provide the info to you for you to be able to gain probate.

 

I would also have doubts over their threat to start repossession proceedings as the mortgage was in your fathers name and he is no longer here to defend.

 

All the best.