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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

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Reliable Collections Update!!! U won't believe it!!


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Hi guys, i thought i would bring you up to speed on the Reliable Collections-Naturally Close issue.

Having been in hospital overnight i came home today to find a letter for me, i opened it and this is what i found word for word:

Thankyou for your letter dated 8th Jan 09 ( news to me! ) ( goes on about when account was opened blah blah)

In relation to your request for a true copy of the executed agreement under section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974,under regulation 3 (2) (b) of the Consumer Credit ( cancellation notices and copies of documents) Regulations 1983 there is no requirement to provide a photocopy of the agreement bearing your signature, it is sufficient that we supply you with a " True Copy" of the agreement setting out the terms and conditions to which you have agreed. A "True Copy" need not bear the debtors signature or, in our case, the date of the agreement. We are therefore enclosing a " True Copy" of the Credit Agreement sent out to you when you opened the account in June blah blah ( i have never seen this agreement btw )

Yours sincerely

Blah blah

right they sent me an up to date version it appears to be, of something i have never seen before, they have hand written my details in and on the copy to be retained by me, with obviously, no signature nor date. I have a right back hander but in case of snoopers i won't reveal it here, please message me,United Front and others who have helped and i will explain this position!! :D Other than this, what do i do because as i understand it they have not furnished me with what i have asked for!!!!!!!:-o

Any further excellent advice would be gratefully received :D from you great ppl, nope not sucking up , it's a great site with great folk.

Many thanks in anticipation

Tigs xx :p

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Hi guys, i thought i would bring you up to speed on the Reliable Collections-Naturally Close issue.

Having been in hospital overnight i came home today to find a letter for me, i opened it and this is what i found word for word:

Thankyou for your letter dated 8th Jan 09 ( news to me! ) ( goes on about when account was opened blah blah)

In relation to your request for a true copy of the executed agreement under section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974,under regulation 3 (2) (b) of the Consumer Credit ( cancellation notices and copies of documents) Regulations 1983 there is no requirement to provide a photocopy of the agreement bearing your signature, it is sufficient that we supply you with a " True Copy" of the agreement setting out the terms and conditions to which you have agreed. A "True Copy" need not bear the debtors signature or, in our case, the date of the agreement. We are therefore enclosing a " True Copy" of the Credit Agreement sent out to you when you opened the account in June blah blah ( i have never seen this agreement btw )

Yours sincerely

Blah blah

right they sent me an up to date version it appears to be, of something i have never seen before, they have hand written my details in and on the copy to be retained by me, with obviously, no signature nor date. I have a right back hander but in case of snoopers i won't reveal it here, please message me,United Front and others who have helped and i will explain this position!! :D Other than this, what do i do because as i understand it they have not furnished me with what i have asked for!!!!!!!:-o

Any further excellent advice would be gratefully received :D from you great ppl, nope not sucking up , it's a great site with great folk.

Many thanks in anticipation

Tigs xx :p

 

Stop paying them. Simple as that.

 

Fred

Before you criticise another man you should first walk a mile in his shoes. Then, when you criticise him, you'll be a mile away and he won't have any shoes on.

 

Don't get me confused with somebody knowledgeable by all those green blobs. I got most of them by making people laugh.

 

I am not European, I am English.

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There is some ongoing debate about this with the DCA's obviously saying that they have fulfilled their obligations and people such as us saying that they havent. If they were to initiate court proceedings, however, they would almost certainly have to provide a copy with your signature on it.

 

People will be along shortly that are far more knowledgable that me with regards to cca requests!!

 

If it were me, I would fire off the account in dispute letter and stop paying. But that is just what I would do if I was in the same situation. Obviously the action we take will differ from person to person and you must take the action that is right for you.

I am rarely around these parts any more. I only stop by when something has come to my attention that has sufficiently annoyed me so as to persuade me to awake from my nap and put in my two pence.

 

I am a final year law student; I am NOT an expert in law. All of my posts are just my opinion. I cannot be held responsible for any outcome whatsoever resulting from any person following the opinions or information contained within my posts. Always seek professional legal advice from a qualified lawyer.

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Also is there any chance that you can scan up a copy of the "agreement" that they have sent you (obviously remove all personal details) so that people can check it over?

 

cheers.

UF

I am rarely around these parts any more. I only stop by when something has come to my attention that has sufficiently annoyed me so as to persuade me to awake from my nap and put in my two pence.

 

I am a final year law student; I am NOT an expert in law. All of my posts are just my opinion. I cannot be held responsible for any outcome whatsoever resulting from any person following the opinions or information contained within my posts. Always seek professional legal advice from a qualified lawyer.

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UF .....quick question, whats the account in dispute letter please is there a link on here? and i haven't paid anything on this account since Feb last year( 08 ), which was the usual payments if you know what i mean?! :confused: lol ( not a repayment plan or anything )

Many thanks Tigs x :)

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1 sec Tigs and I shall see if I can lay my hands on it! :-)

I am rarely around these parts any more. I only stop by when something has come to my attention that has sufficiently annoyed me so as to persuade me to awake from my nap and put in my two pence.

 

I am a final year law student; I am NOT an expert in law. All of my posts are just my opinion. I cannot be held responsible for any outcome whatsoever resulting from any person following the opinions or information contained within my posts. Always seek professional legal advice from a qualified lawyer.

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Right, I think this is the one :-D:

 

 

sorry, wrong one. wont be a sec! ;-)

Amend as needed! :-)

I am rarely around these parts any more. I only stop by when something has come to my attention that has sufficiently annoyed me so as to persuade me to awake from my nap and put in my two pence.

 

I am a final year law student; I am NOT an expert in law. All of my posts are just my opinion. I cannot be held responsible for any outcome whatsoever resulting from any person following the opinions or information contained within my posts. Always seek professional legal advice from a qualified lawyer.

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Dear Sir/Madam

 

 

NOTICE THAT YOU HOLD DATA ABOUT ME WHICH IS INNACURATE AND IN DISPUTE.

My credit file shows that you are holding personal data about me which is inaccurate and which is in dispute.

The entries have been lodged by XXXXX and refer to purported debts which are in fact comprised of bank penalty charges.

As you are aware, the entire issue of bank charges has been in dispute generally between the banks and their customers for well over 2 years. In July 2007 the OFT announced that in response to a request by 8 UK banks they would be bringing a test case on the issue of whether bank delinquency charges were subject to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contract Regulations 1999.

It is clear that at least by that date, if not before that the UK banks admitted that there was a serious question mark over the status of their charges.

In May 2008 the High Court ruled that the bank’s charges were indeed subject to UTCCR.

I am sure that you are well aware that the Oft has publicly expressed its view that the charges are subject to UTCCR and also that they are unfairly high.

Although the banks are appealing against the High Court decision, there is frankly little chance that they will succeed and there is every chance that the OFT will set a cap for charges which is very much less than the present level of £30 and more in many cases.

Once it is fully confirmed that UTCCR is the governing law and that its terms have been breached by the banks high level of charges, all charges which have been levied to date plus any associated interest will be unlawfully unfair. There is no provision in the UTCCR to allow the difference between unfair charge and capped rate to be invalidated. The whole charge becomes invalid per se.

 

 

Additionally, I am putting you on notice that I informed the bank that I disputed their charges in XXXX yet despite this they proceeded to make entries onto my credit file in breach of the Banking Code of Practice, in breach of their contractual obligations and in breach of the Information Commissioner's own guidance.

 

I am putting you on notice that I intend to complain to the Information Commissioner’s office that you are holding inaccurate data about me. The negative entries on my credit file are damaging to me and the Data Protection Act allows me to seek compensation from both you and the organisation which communicated the data to you through the County Courts and this is also an option which I am considering. I am sure that you are also aware that inaccurate entries about me are defamatory and that it is a new act of defamation each time you publish those entries to any enquirer. I would further suggest that even if an inaccurate data entry carries a dispute marker, it does not prevent the inaccurate data from having a damaging effect and it does not protect you from liability.

 

I notice that the Defaults Guidance notes issued to Credit Reference Agencies by the Information Commissioner in August 2007 make all of this very clear to you so that there is no doubt that you are aware of your responsibilities.

I expect also that you are aware that being an “innocent disseminator” is no defence either to claims under the Data Protection Act or in defamation.

I understand your procedures well enough to know that you will not immediately remove negative entries from my data file. Nevertheless I require you to do so and your failure to respond to this reasoned and polite warning will be brought to the notice of the Information Commissioner and the courts in due course.

I understand that you may make some enquiries from my bank before taking action but in the meantime I fully expect that you will place an entry on my file that the entry is disputed.

 

I would be very grateful if you will let me have your full response

 

 

Yours faithfully

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haha someone beat me to it!! :-)

 

I was thinking of the cca account in dispute letter, but if people with more knowledge think a different one will work better then I shant argue!!! :-)

 

UF

I am rarely around these parts any more. I only stop by when something has come to my attention that has sufficiently annoyed me so as to persuade me to awake from my nap and put in my two pence.

 

I am a final year law student; I am NOT an expert in law. All of my posts are just my opinion. I cannot be held responsible for any outcome whatsoever resulting from any person following the opinions or information contained within my posts. Always seek professional legal advice from a qualified lawyer.

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Im afrain I cant. :-(

 

Can you load it onto photobucket to make it easier to read possibly?

 

Cheers.

UF

I am rarely around these parts any more. I only stop by when something has come to my attention that has sufficiently annoyed me so as to persuade me to awake from my nap and put in my two pence.

 

I am a final year law student; I am NOT an expert in law. All of my posts are just my opinion. I cannot be held responsible for any outcome whatsoever resulting from any person following the opinions or information contained within my posts. Always seek professional legal advice from a qualified lawyer.

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This is standard creditor/DCA waffle which, translated, means:

 

- they cannot produce the original agreement

- they know the law allows them to send an unsigned document to fulfil a CCA request, but

- they know that they cannot enforce without the original executed agreement, but cannot bring themselves to tell you

 

If you are paying, stop.

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Ok Uf will try tonight lol

thanks SP, good info, should i send the account in dispute letter anyways? :confused:

Thankyou

Tigs x

 

 

YESSSS!!!!

 

And save a copy, and save proof of postage, and proof of everything... so that when (if) they file a Default you can complain to the Information Commissioner and OFT that the STILL filed a Default whilst the account was in dispute...

 

 

I wish I knew all this sooner!!

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YESSSS!!!!

 

And save a copy, and save proof of postage, and proof of everything... so that when (if) they file a Default you can complain to the Information Commissioner and OFT that the STILL filed a Default whilst the account was in dispute...

 

 

I wish I knew all this sooner!!

 

Better late than never eh?

 

Fred

Before you criticise another man you should first walk a mile in his shoes. Then, when you criticise him, you'll be a mile away and he won't have any shoes on.

 

Don't get me confused with somebody knowledgeable by all those green blobs. I got most of them by making people laugh.

 

I am not European, I am English.

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Surely if its legal for them to send you a document with your details on but no signature i could be a millionaire by now...

 

 

They know they cant enforce it but are trying to fob you off and assuming you are not aware of the law - basic practice :)

 

That's it in a nutshell. They rely on the ignorance of people and also the natural stigma that attaches itself to debt. Nobody wants to own up to being in debt and that's why the dirtier tactics include threats to send "doorstep collectors" and in some cases even ringing neighbours to leave "urgent" messages.

 

There are 200,000 members of this forum but even that is a small percentage of the number of people who are in debt, so their terror tactics work on most but not on us. Spread the word!

 

Fred

Before you criticise another man you should first walk a mile in his shoes. Then, when you criticise him, you'll be a mile away and he won't have any shoes on.

 

Don't get me confused with somebody knowledgeable by all those green blobs. I got most of them by making people laugh.

 

I am not European, I am English.

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I cant see a link?? :confused:

I am rarely around these parts any more. I only stop by when something has come to my attention that has sufficiently annoyed me so as to persuade me to awake from my nap and put in my two pence.

 

I am a final year law student; I am NOT an expert in law. All of my posts are just my opinion. I cannot be held responsible for any outcome whatsoever resulting from any person following the opinions or information contained within my posts. Always seek professional legal advice from a qualified lawyer.

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Hi this is the normal unreliable collections crap they tried the same with me, problem for them the supplied the blank with our present address not the address we lived at when the account was opened. I still had to take them to court, they settled two weeks before the hearing.

 

dpick

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