Equita bailiff and fees

[sweed73]

Hi,

i owed the council just short of 1300 pounds equita demanded that i pay £200 a month back and this i have kept to, i then missed decembers payment and it has been passed to a bailiff called craig, equita and the council won't discuss this issue now. i Rang craig and asked him to clarify some points before we started any discussion about payments, theses were

are you a certified bailiff ( checked he is)

the starting balance,

any payments made,

remaining balance,

any fees ,charges made,

he said to ring back tomorrow, what i need to know is if they have added fees and charges which from the forum i know not to be legal what do i do ? should i not pay any more untill there removed, offer carry on paying my installments, (£600 remaining) or something different.

please help as i've got to ring back tomorrow.

[chris600uk]

Ring the council and ask them how much the liability order was for.

 

Has Craig been into your house?

 

Did you sign a Walking Possession Agreement or anything?

 

How much do the bailiffs say you owe?

[sweed73]

The liabilty order was for £1224

divided into six payments of £204, i have paid £612 so i know i owe exactly £612 plus any other charges, craig has not been yet i'm ringing at 10 tomorrow to get his figures for whats owed, what i'm after is to know what they can legally charge me so if he's added a load on i can reply to him straight away, chabged the front door lock to one that stays locked when closed so he can't walk in , the old lock just stayed open unless locked with key.

[chris600uk]

Do everything in writing

 

I pay the council direct and only pay fees to the bailiffs, when they prove the fees are lawful

 

My doors and windows stay locked and I don't own the car I drive.

[sweed73]

Just sent the following to my local councillors

Account Number –**********

Equita Number - **********

Dear Sir,

Whilst I understand the importance of recovering council tax it is with regrets that

due to financial hardship over the last two years I fell behind with my council tax, the debt was passed to equita who you employ to recover debts.

Despite discussions with the CCCS who were advising me on my debt situation Equita would only allow me to repay the debt over six months at £204 per month. We struggled but we did manage to pay three payments before we fell behind on our mortgage as we did not have enough money to pay both, we missed a payment in December and the matter was referred to a collection Bailiff. Equita now refuse to discuss the issue with me and the council refuse to discuss the issue with me,

I have been informed by the bailiff that even though he hasn't visited my house he has added £180 to the bill, after researching bailiff law I have found that this is illegal, there are statuary fees in place for bailiff fees set by the government, starting at 12.5% of the first £100 and going up, it can be researched on the net.

These fees are only applicable after the first visit where access is not made.

I am more than willing to pay the debt as stated but will not be held to ransom by a company employed by yourselves who are acting illegally and exploiting people who are most at need.

I can only guess at the number of people who have through fear and ignorance has had to pay these illegal fees and request that you investigate this matter with Equita direct.

I can assure you that with a simple search of the internet regarding Equita and there method of operations you may come across their questionable or illegal way of dealing with people is this really a company which you choose to represent Salford.

My question is what do I do now, I am willing to pay off the debt but not to a bailiff who imposes illegal fees, do you as a council condone or are aware of this practice, ant help would be appreciated.

It is my intention to forward this email to a selection of local councillor’s and the local Salford Advertiser and await your responses.

Many thanks

********************************

Wonder if i get a reply

[lamb to the slaughter]

if craig has a signed walk in pocession then you will probably be charged a van call or default fee, which is basicly because said bailiff is calling with the intention to remove, if this is the case then he can legally charge up to £150 well its meant to be reasonable costs but im sure this fee has never been disallowed as yet, if im wrong then im sure someone will be along shortly to correct it!

[Emma Royd]

hi hope you dont mind but i've made your last post more readable. Cant really offer any help as i'm going through a similar thing with Equita but can tell you that you'll get some great help here on CAG. Good luck

 

Emma Royd

xx

 

 

Account Number –**********

Equita Number - **********

Dear Sir

Whilst I understand the importance of recovering council tax it is with regrets that due to financial hardship over the last two years I fell behind with my council tax, the debt was passed to equita who you employ to recover debts.

Despite discussions with the CCCS who were advising me on my debt situation Equita would only allow me to repay the debt over six months at £204 per month.

We struggled but we did manage to pay three payments before we fell behind on our mortgage as we did not have enough money to pay both, we missed a payment in December and the matter was referred to a collection Bailiff. Equita now refuse to discuss the issue with me and the council refuse to discuss the issue with me.

 

I have been informed by the bailiff that even though he hasn't visited my house he has added £180 to the bill, after researching bailiff law I have found that this is illegal, there are statuary fees in place for bailiff fees set by the government, starting at 12.5% of the first £100 and going up, it can be researched on the net.

These fees are only applicable after the first visit where access is not made.

I am more than willing to pay the debt as stated but will not be held to ransom by a company employed by yourselves who are acting illegally and exploiting people who are most at need. I can only guess at the number of people who have through fear and ignorance has had to pay these illegal fees and request that you investigate this matter with Equita direct.

I can assure you that with a simple search of the internet regarding Equita and there method of operations you may come across their questionable or illegal way of dealing with people is this really a company which you choose to represent Salford.

My question is what do I do now, I am willing to pay off the debt but not to a bailiff who imposes illegal fees, do you as a council condone or are aware of this practice, ant help would be appreciated.

It is my intention to forward this email to a selection of local councillor’s and the local Salford Advertiser and await your responses.

Many thanks

 

[chris600uk]

Sweed, please don't take this the wrong way mate, I know you're hacked off about it, but don't write any more letters like that - it could easily prove counter productive.

 

Keep all letters business like and to the point, and always polite - even if you are accusing the bailiffs or the council of dishonesty

 

Use the template letters, they'll make your job a lot easier, and quote the relevant legislation - always try to sound reasonable - in the event you have to make a form 4 complaint to a court the judge is more likely to listen to what you have to say

[chris600uk]

I have been informed by the bailiff that even though he hasn't visited my house he has added £180 to the bill

 

Sorry I feel like I'm missing something, how do you know the bailiffs name, and how did he inform you of it?

[sweed73]

whwn i rang to pay equita it refers you to the bailiff, gives his name and number , i spoke to him and asked him to clarify the outstanding debt , he informed me then it was my debt of 612 plus 180 fees, he hasn't visited yet but says he is coming with a van today.

[scatz1972]

If this is your first visit by the bailiffs, and they have never entered your property or levied on your car then the most they can add is £24.50. A bailiff can only charge for 2 visits, £24.50 for the 1st and £18 for the 2nd. So long as they never gain entry or levy on anything then can add no more.

 

The charges that a bailiff can add whilst collecting council tax are laid down in law.

 

As you may or may not be aware, a bailiff has no more rights to enter your property than me. However they can gain entry through an open window/door etc. Never open the door to the bailiff otherwise they may stick their foot in it to prevent you from closing it.

 

Never sign anything a bailiff gives you.

 

Move your car away from your property, or sell or give it away to a family member for a pound, but make sure you change the paperwork aswell etc.

 

Eventually if the bailiff can not gain entry he will return the account back to the council.

[vexlitigant]

whwn i rang to pay equita it refers you to the bailiff, gives his name and number , i spoke to him and asked him to clarify the outstanding debt , he informed me then it was my debt of 612 plus 180 fees, he hasn't visited yet but says he is coming with a van today.

 

DO NOT OPEN THE DOOR TO ANYONE TODAY.

 

IF YOU HAVE KIDS DO NOT LET THEM NEAR FRONT DOOR TODAY

 

If family member returns home, MAKE SURE THEY ARE NOT 'TAILGATED'

 

When you go out, make sure the 'coast is clear'

 

This can still be sorted out, but once a Bailiff gains entry, he / she can return any time subsequently, and gain posession by any means and that includes breaking in !!!!

 

YOU ARE NOT OBLIGED TO LET HIM / HER IN.

 

Legally, they cannot force their way past you, but i'd prefer not to argue that one in court. JUST LOCK WINDOWS AND DOORS, AND SPEAK WITH ANY CALLERS THROUGH THE LETTERBOX.

 

Vex

[vexlitigant]

Also

 

Be prepared for if the Bailiff does actually call. Have a recorder / dictaphone / video cam next to the door.

 

If he / she knocks, start recording, tell him that you are recording, and tell him that you are not opening the door. If you do open your mouth after that, be very careful.

 

Make sure your back door is covered too. You may find there are two of them.

 

You have to take control of this IN WRITING.

 

Good luck, Vex

[tomtubby]

He can charge a visit fee of £24.50 for "attending to levy" (where no levy was made) ie: you were not at home and he can charge a second visit fee of £18.00 also for the same thing.

 

IF HOWEVER he is able to levy on goods which he will then list on a walking possession then he cannot charge a visit fee as well.

 

If he has then levied on goods and provided you with documentary evidence and you then do not pay........he can then return to your home to REMOVE the goods listed. For this he can charge an "Attending to Remove" fee. This is what this bailiff is now trying to do.....

 

As you can see by this (hopefully) simple explanation ....this bailiff has missed the bit where he needs to first levy on goods !!!!....or hopes that you do not know this !!!!

 

In your case, he can charge just £24.50 for making a first visit. Please do post back after speaking with the bailiff.

[vexlitigant]

If this is your first visit by the bailiffs, and they have never entered your property or levied on your car then the most they can add is £24.50. A bailiff can only charge for 2 visits, £24.50 for the 1st and £18 for the 2nd. So long as they never gain entry or levy on anything then can add no more.

 

The charges that a bailiff can add whilst collecting council tax are laid down in law.

 

As you may or may not be aware, a bailiff has no more rights to enter your property than me. However they can gain entry through an open window/door etc. Never open the door to the bailiff otherwise they may stick their foot in it to prevent you from closing it.

 

Never sign anything a bailiff gives you.

 

Move your car away from your property, or sell or give it away to a family member for a pound, but make sure you change the paperwork aswell etc.

 

Eventually if the bailiff can not gain entry he will return the account back to the council.

 

Excellent. Wise words for this situation.

[scatz1972]

http://www.herefordshire.gov.uk/docs/Enforcement_Agent_Charges.pdf

 

Fee scale for bailif/enforcement fees for council tax....there is one error on the page which tomtubby pointed out (resident bailiff expert) the 2nd visit fee should be £18 not £18.50.

[chris600uk]

Don't be phased by the van - they use them anyway

 

The important thing is to ignore him completely when he's at your front door.

 

And then talk to him on the phone only if you feel you must once he's gone away - preferably using recording equipment or software.

[chris600uk]

If you keep doing that, and only communicate in writing - he'll soon get fed up and start leaving you alone.

 

He is like a salesman - he's only paid by results and has lots of leads to follow. So if you seem like a hard nut to crack and give little or no feedback when he calls, he won't bother after a while.

 

I know what I'm talking about - so when he calls, make sure he can't see you, and go into the back and make a nice cuppa and put your feet up.

 

He'll shout all kinds of frightening stuff through your letterbox, he may even bang on your door - let him do that for up to 30 mins if he's really persistant.

 

Then once he's gone, and only if you feel you must, ring him and tell him you'll put everything in writing.

 

Be courteous and polite, BUT FIRM, no matter what he says.

[chris600uk]

Personally I'd email the bailiffs and the council and the head of the council tax dept, and then send a hard copy by recorded delivery.

 

Always be businesslike and keep it to the point - don't rant about anything.

[sweed73]

The bailiff called today and posted a letter it reads

I have attended today with the intention of removing your goods and chattels as are necessary to discharge the outstanding council tax liability order and any additional enforcement costs.

i will re-attend at your address with immediate effect and may remove goods even in your absence. Should you wish to avoid this distressing course of action contact me immediately on the telephone number below to arrange prompt payment.

no contact will be taken as your refusal to pay .

 

also my name is spelt wrong on the letter

any ideas,

[scatz1972]

Just follow all of the advice you have been give, hide car, keep windows/doors closed etc and they will eventually get the message and send the account back to the council.

 

This is a letter that has been posted a few times on the forum...adapt it to suit your needs.

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

YOUR COUNCIL appears to have instructed you to recover unpaid council tax from me.

 

This letter gives you notice that you are not being given peaceful entry to my home or to levy goods contained within and I will not be signing anything for you. This notice revokes your eligibility to charge a Walking Possessions fee or other fee relating to the handling of goods.

 

Due to my circumstances I am unable to pay the debt as you demanded because it is unrealistic. I have sent an affordable payment direct to the council along with a written schedule of repayments.

 

Please be advised it is not a "criminal offence" for me to deny a bailiff entry to my property, the law says I have to settle the debt; it does not obligate me to do business with you. If you suggest to me otherwise I will automatically report you to the police and you may receive a criminal record.

 

I AM NOT REFUSING TO PAY THIS DEBT.

 

Meanwhile please provide me with a written breakdown of your fees you have demanded and put it through the letterbox and quietly leave the property. If your fees are found to contradict Regulation 45(2) of the Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992 I will automatically file a Form 4 complaint against you at your certificating court for attempting to defraud me under Sections 2 and 4 of the Fraud Act 2006.

 

This document was sent to you recorded delivery to the above address and a copy was sent to HEAD OF council tax Recovery Dept.

 

Please also supply me with a breakdown of the fee's you have charged me

 

 

Yours Faithfully

 

 

Send all letters recorded to the council and bailiffs and makes you keep copies. It will be a good idea to sort out an income and expenditure form and make an offer to the council.

[chris600uk]

What! You mean he didn't take your car away?

 

Well just fancy that:D

[vexlitigant]

The bailiff called today and posted a letter it reads

 

Was letter in Envelope????

 

I have attended today with the intention of removing your goods and chattels as are necessary to discharge the outstanding council tax liability order and any additional enforcement costs.

i will re-attend at your address with immediate effect and may remove goods even in your absence.

 

Not unless he is ******* houdini he won't !!!(unless of course someone else that lives with you lets him in). If that Bailiff has not been in your house before, then he cannot gain forced entry.

 

Should you wish to avoid this distressing course of action contact me immediately on the telephone number below to arrange prompt payment.

no contact will be taken as your refusal to pay .

 

NO PHONE CALLS. DO NOT RING THIS ******. WRITTEN Correspondence only.

 

also my name is spelt wrong on the letter

any ideas,

 

Hope that helps, Vex

[sweed73]

ok getting somewhere,

just had a phonecall of the assistant council tax councillor, she has been asked by the councillor i emailed to look in to my case, she insists i owe the money, i agree, payable at a realistic figure, but has put the collection on hold while she investigates the fees , threat of fees that equita are charging.

Equita now insist i was visited in june last year twice, i deny this , this was the time i agreed a payment plan on the phone if it had been referred to a bailiff they would not have spoken to me.

Equita deny the bailiff told me there were £180 charges applied before visiting , i don't have a recording but i think she believes me and is taking the matter up with them

The most interesting thing is she insists they can keep calling and adding fees when no access or levy is in place, she quotes section 1A of the 1992 statutory instrument "for making a visit to premisis with a view to levying distress (WHETHER THE LEVY IS MADE OR NOT ),

can anybody with a legal background confirm if this is the case or not with reasoning, she also says if they visit with a van, again no levy, they can charge reasonable costs she reckons £150+ is reasonable.

While this issue about visits with no levy may not affect me directly i'd love them to be wrong and have to deal with it, however the advice would have to be spot on,

thank you very much for your help till now

stephen

[scatz1972]

Hi

 

Yes the original 1992 adminstration and enforcement regulations did say that, here is a link to the document:-

 

The Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992

 

but thats been updated/amended many times.

 

Tomtubby (resident bailiff expert, who also runs a company that deals with giving out bailiff advice) posted this a while back.

 

BAILIFF FEES FOR COUNCIL TAX

 

Source:

 

The Council Tax Administration & Enforcement (Amendment) 1993. Si 773 amended by Si 295 0f 1998, Si 768 of 2003 and Si 3395 of 2006

 

 

EXPLAINATION

 

First visit fee: £24.50

 

This is for a first attendance to levy but where a levydoes not takes place. (For example where you are not in)

 

The bailiff can charge a levy feeif theylevybut he cannot charge both amounts on the same occasion.

 

Second visit fee: £18.00

 

Despite any further visits, the bailiff can only charge for a maximum of 2 visits.

 

Levy Fee:

 

This is where the bailiff levies on goods and a Walking Possession is signed.

 

Under this heading the bailiff can charge £24.50 for the first £100, and 4% on the next £400 etc. For example: assuming your Council Tax bill is £600, the total amount that you should pay is as follows:

 

First £100 £24.50

Next £400 @ 4% £16.00

Remaining £100 @ 2.5% £ 2.50

Walking Possession Fee £12.00

 

Total £55.00

 

Attendance fee:

 

For one attendance with a vehicle with a view to recover goodsafter the levy has been made under this heading.

 

Contact National Debtline they will give you the same information that I have posted above, same with Citizens advice. The person you spoke to either is trying to pull the wool over your eyes or they havent a clue, I would take the latter.