Repo order help with defence needed.

[colin21958]

What was the Judge's response to the fact that they had obviously doctored the copy of the DN they provided?

[colin21958]

Can you now sue the creditor for obtaining a judgement through deception?

 

Or request court to set aside the judgement on the basis of fabricated evidence?

 

I would have thought so, that was why I wondered what the judge said about this point when it was raised...

[colin21958]

The claimant can discontinue at any time, but they will be liable for all costs...

[colin21958]

Does anyone know how long it takes to get a set aside because presumably if it takes to long I will lose my right to appeal ? And vice-versa ?

 

It can take some time; I made an application to set aside a default judgement on 16/04/10 and it looks like the hearing won't take place until August. However, I would think the right of appeal would follow the set aside hearing if that wasd to go the same way as the original hearing; i.e. you would appeal the set aside judgement on the same grounds as you would have appealled the original decision. That's just my opinion of course, but hopefully someone who knows better will confirm for you...

[colin21958]

Yes, although I think cosalt just needs set aside granted, rather than the actual hearing date. I'm assuming that the decision to set aside will be fast, even though the new hearing is some time in the future.

 

So if set aside is not granted, he needs to press on with appeal.

 

LA

 

 

I am sure you are right, but I still haven't been told whether the set aside has been approved; although I have been given until 06/06/10 to submit my draft defence... I'm assuming it's after that that they will decide whether to set aside or not?

[colin21958]

How does this sound ?

 

I cosalt intend to apply for an order that sets aside the judgement made against me on 24th May 2010 because I believe the judge mis-directed himself in making his decision by ignoring the requirements of the CCA 1974 that states in order for a claimant to demand sums not due and/or reclaim any goods subject of the agreement they must first issue a default notice that complies with the requirements laid out in section 88.

 

Sounds good to me... could mention the requirement to comply with this in order to carry out actions stated in s87 as well perhaps? Also, mention the name of the judge who made the judgement?

[colin21958]

I don't think it's too long, and I would think would only be improved by adding the Woodchester case law. Just my opinion of course...

[colin21958]

Thanks for that, I think I will go for it then.

 

Should I just refer to the woodchester case or quote from it ?

 

I would think quoting something would be worthwhile where it directly supports your case, but keep it to a minimum...

[colin21958]

lots of guests watching this thread

 

Because it is so important; everyone is relying on defective DNs (me included) and if the Judges just brush this aside it's going to affect almost everyone! I don't believe they can get away with this at the end of the day. As someone said earlier, you may have to fight for it, but justice should prevail in the end (otherwise what's the point of having a legal system at all! ).

 

Wish someone was looking at my threads!

[colin21958]

Stick some links to your threads on here, it can't do any harm

 

OK, thanks. Here they are...

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/258341-urgent-help-required-disclosure.html

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/252630-application-set-aside-default.html

 

Any comments/views/assistance from anyone would be very gratefully received...

 

Colin

[colin21958]

LOL I thought it didnt look right ! Should that say pedantic ??

 

Nice one cosalt!

[colin21958]

Just clicked LA's scales as well - he's quite clever for a member of tyhe aristocracy!

 

BD

 

Yes, I clicked his scales too; he's good isn't he!?. But then you'd expect him to be quite good at this if he sits in the House of Lords!

 

Colin

[colin21958]

Well put simply. I don't know what to do now

 

I would follow his Lordship's advice! Call or visit the court and explain the situation to the court manager and explain that you would like to make an application for a set-aside, but that if this is definitely not going to be allowed then you will be appealing, then do whiichever you need to do. That's what I'd do, I think you have a strong case if it goes to appeal, or even if you get a set aside hearing...

 

Colin

Edited May 27, 2010 by colin21958
I wish I could spell, or type, or both!

[colin21958]

Its obvious the court is arsing about, and probably ain't got a f#####g clue what to do so why don't you just put in for an appeal and forget setting it aside?

 

Its up to you cosalt but obviously the court is wasting valuable time [your time] and this is not good. Once you put in an application to appeal that should slow things down until your get everything in order AGAIN.

 

You should ask this court and the who ever your talking to have that got a bloody idea what the hell there on about:-x

 

...Yep, or you could do that of course...! ...

[colin21958]

So, at least we're all agreed then!

[colin21958]

Agree? we aint got time to agree JUST DO IT as starsky would say to hutch

 

Absolutely, I'm still with you on that one too!

[colin21958]

Right appeal it is then, not only for my benefit but for the benefit of anyone with a dodgy DN.

 

I could try and negotiate but why should I? I know I am right so why give in ?

 

I'm going to appeal, win and get all my costs back and CAG will benefit from a donation as a result !

 

cosalt.

 

Go for it...! And you can rest assured of plenty of help from everyone here...! Especially as it's an issue which affects so many people here!

[colin21958]

Now I just need help with the forms.........

 

We'll muddle through I'm sure!

[colin21958]

Anyway, my advice is stay calm, think clearly and positive. If you think and believe your right then you have to fight. That is my middle of the years new resolution.

 

agree everyone?

 

Of course! :D:D everyone will agree! We're a very agreeable lot!

[colin21958]

Thanks that link is very usefull.

 

I have pm'd pt2357 but he says he will not acceot pm's asking for help so I hope ive done the right thing

 

PT is busy, but I would think he will let you know who to contact, or forward your message to someone who can help... If you don't hear back from him try contacting one of the other site team members (anyone who is online - check the bottom of the home page for people who are online) and they will put others in contact with you who can help; they did for me...

[colin21958]

One side of me wants to persue and win, not only for the benefit of caggers but to give me confidence for all the other creditors that will come to a head eventually.

 

The other side says if I am in a position to do it why not put an end to it now.

 

I need to get this sorted today so will appreciate as many opinions as possible.

 

 

Avoid court if you can, but make sure if you pay, as LA said that you get it in writing that it is F & F settlement so they can't come back at you later. Your appeal could help others, but you should only consider your own situation in this instance; it's you that is going to be affected primarily by the stress of the court case and also the possible outcomes. If it feels right for YOU, then do it, but if you can negotiate a deal and that would be better for you then do that, or at least try. But make sure you realise that "legally" you are in a strong position, so make sure you make THEM realise that to (I'm sure they are actually already aware of this!), so keep the payment you make, if any, to a minimum! Take everything into account and take the path that is least painful for you in everyway!

 

Colin

Edited May 28, 2010 by colin21958

[colin21958]

i think it means "that was suggested some while ago"

 

seriously, i think vint means "you need to get your skates on as you have lost a lot of time already"

 

Actually I think you will find that Vint was taking about the fact that starting a new thread for this appeal was mentioned before when it was mentioned again a few posts back...

 

Refer to post #398

[colin21958]

I would suggest you ask the site team to change the title to add appeal; otherwise start another thread for the appeal with a link to this thread.

 

No one thinks you are thick as this is a big learning curve for most of us. As this is a self help site you need to look at all the arguments, look at some of the other appeals that have been won or are taking place and then do what you think is best. Also look at who is a'respected elder statesman' of the site.

If you are going to appeal you need to be mindfull of the timescales. Once you have started the proces you will get help. As fot the N460 you need to get written confirmation from the court that they do not complete this (even though they are legally obliged to) so that it can be added to your bundle.

 

Good advice. Also, I would like to add to that by saying we are all behind you, learning more than helping most likely, but if we can help in any way you can be sure we will. You will have a big audience throughout this appeal, that is for sure.

 

Colin

[colin21958]

Thank you for the support everyone, have started new thread in the hope someone has been through this and can point me in the right direction.

 

cosalt:)

 

Put a link to it here and ask a site team member to merge the threads...

[colin21958]

Yes LA, I think you are absolutely right.

 

The court has only allowed repo in order for the claimant to calculate any further sums due after deduction of the vehicle value net of collection costs.

 

Now of course the twist is that the vehicle is worth far less tahn the collection costs so by doing a repo they will have incurred even further costs that are far in excess of the vehicle value.

 

I have not stopped them taking it I have only asked for the correct paperwork, they know if they return with it I wont stand in their way. As of today they have not bothered to apply for a warrant.

 

This only leaves them the option to return to court to claim the outstanding monies, presumably then the judge will want to know why they have not repo'd.

 

If they then do get a judgement I can then clearly apply for a set aside on the basis that the judgement is wrong.

 

I am going to have a good think but reckon my best bet is to find the money to pay the £290 costs and see what they do from there, I think I should pay the costs as they could ask the court to enforce this if I dont pay.

 

This puts the ball back in their court so to speak. I already know the Judgement for delivery can't be registered against me as they know they can take the goods if they really want so I am not in default of the judgement.

 

What do you reckon ?

 

This gets more and more complicated doesn't it!?

 

However, in my opinion, which probably isn't worth very much (don't try to sell it! ) the above does make sense. Why fight for something you don't want, especially as, if they do take it (I wonder if you can force them too?! Just thinking out loud there!) it may even strengthen your position if they then make a money claim against you which you can defend (as long as you don't get the same p***** judge!). Even if you do get the same p***** judge you can still appeal, but at least you would be appealling for something you want (your money) rather than something you don't want or need (the decrepit vehicle/van), with another claim to fight off to follow. Just my opinion, but LA does make a lot of sense! I wish I could! Mind you after the Whisky I've drunk tonight you should DEFINITELY ignore me! :D