Faulty phone, now out of stock, contract ticking away

[born2bongo]

After research I asked for a Samsung Omnia for Xmas. (The purchase date was about 7 days earlier). It was bought from an internet company with a T-Mobile web and walk contract. I was previously payg on another network.

 

I've had 12 days of stress since. It's got masses of functionality but its not intuitive and there was no manual included. Every step forward involved phone calls to Samsung, whose service was not good, or searches on the internet. The manuals provided online are too basic for most of my problems

 

That's by the by, but Samsung finally confirmed the phone had a fault and we arranged with the vendor for it to be replaced today.

 

My partner took a day off to receive the new one and return the old one, but was called at 11am to say the phone was out of stock.

 

It's the final straw. I've had it with this phone.

 

We have a wasted days holiday, no confirmed delivery date for a new phone, a contract ticking away that we haven't been able to use yet and even if I get another one there is still a lot of pain to be gone through to get all the functionality working.

 

Deep breath! We are waiting for the suppliers to get back to us, but frankly we are expecting to have to chase them some more. They have said we are too late for a refund because of the 7 day rule, and that they won't reimburse us for the lost day or the unused contract time.

 

Q1. My ideal solution now would be to give up on this phone and accept the reduced functionality of the i-phone. That is not available on T-Mobile. Where do I stand with the contract?

 

Q2. Next possibility is to get an ipod touch and a phone with less functionaility. I could then have the T-Mobile contract but I would not want the web and walk bit. Is that a possibility?

 

Q3. If you don't think either of the above are viable, what's my next best bet?

 

Sorry for the waffle and thanks in advance

[Bookworm]

Tell the suppliers to take a flying jump about the 7 day "rule", and tell them that you are invoking your statutory right to reject under SOGA 1979 and that you are entitled to a full refund. Tell them that since the contract is linked to them supplying a phone that was faulty and now being unable to fulfill the contract by supplying you with the correct phone or a suitable alternative, you are cancelling the whole thing and want a refund in full, including the contract part, and that failure to do so will result in you seeking to recover those costs through the small claims court. Also tell them that you will report them to Trading Standards if they persist in denying you your statutory rights.

[buzby]

And if you do all that is suggested above, you can look forward to seeing your credit file going down the Swanee - so I would advise caution.

 

You say that the Omnia isn't intuitive - I'm afraid I disagree, it uses the full implementation of Windows Mobile Professional and is as 'intuitive' as any other OS. If you are not familiar with it, then it will take a little time to get used to, but that is the same for anything else.

 

Also, there is no inherent fault with the Omnia, and there has been no recall. In December Samsung released a firmware update which improved battery longevity, and this could be upgraded online, or be passing to their repair centre for 'flashing'. You don't say what the fault was - but if it was being returned to them, I have never known of any situation where a new replacement is promised sight unseen of the original handset.

 

Your contract is for the SIM, not the phone, so if you sent it back to a repair centre, you may be awaiting for a refurbished replacement not new stock, so perhaps this should be clarified.

 

Regarding the manual. The full manual is on the CR-ROM and is a fulsome as any I have seen from any manufacturer.

 

To use your minutes/calls, pop the SIM into another handset and carry on - as T-mobile's network is not unavailable, there will be no compensation for not using the services. Additional insurance cover is available to cover in these circumstances, but if you don't have it, there is little point is hoping for compensation.

 

The Sale of Goods Act does not negate your responsibilities under the service contract which is a separate issue, so whatever you do, ensure your new contract is not compromised, as the mess this can cause can be a major headache. As for involving Trading Standards, this will do nothing for your T-mobile contract.

[born2bongo]

Buzby

 

1. The CD ROM was devoid of any user manual, and I'm not the only one to report this.

2. I have had 4 different versions of the User manual sent to me but none of them are detailed enough

3. I've asked on several forums how you use the touch player. There are some unexplained, undocumented buttons, and no-one has been able to tell me how to add a new track to an existing play list. No-one can tell me how to make the slide player show the whole photo, not just the middle. This is stuff that should be in the manual

4. The fault was known by Samsung cos they told me to send the handset back. It is documented in several places on the internet. Basically my 8gb disk insisted it was full when I tried to add 3 more tracks to 2 gb of existing data. The only cure is a hard reset and reloading all your data.

I could go on at length about the things I've laboured hours over to understand. They are not in any of the manuals I've seen. I've not used Windows mobile before and things like the X in the top right hand corner not closing the app are a revelation. A techie user explained why today - pity Samsung didn't.

 

All that said, I was prepared to persevere with the phone, but it now looks as if I will have to pay for a contract that I can't use. The supplier couldn't give any timeframe, even when we asked if it could be months.

 

I'm concerned about affecting my credit, but I think there's some mileage in going a way down that road.

 

Thanks to everyone for the feedback and any further thoughts would be most welcome

B2B

[buzby]

Ta for the update - I use the 16Gb model, and don't have the problem you mention. The Touch Player (along with the Samsung front-end) I dislike totally, as it is non-standard and there are far better alternatives - even the Windows Media Player! However, these are not faults of 'the phone' as most of the software I receive with a new PC is dumped as I invariably have better alternatives.

 

As to 'X' not closing an app-Windows Mobile has worked this way since Day 1, and it is a matter of moments to select the menu function to Exit an application than put it into the background. What DOES annoy me about the Omnia marketing is that it is mostly shown providing driving directions (because of the inbuilt GPS) but there is no mapping software provided as standard, and the docs don't explain this. Apart from that, everything else works as it should, and all the WM Software I've loaded works flawlessly. Hopefully you'll be up and running soon - and the camera (at 5Mp) is excellent.

[installspark]

You don't say what the fault was - but if it was being returned to them, I have never known of any situation where a new replacement is promised sight unseen of the original handset.

 

I think the OP was referring to a doorstep swap out. The replacement handset is not given over by the courier until they have seen sight of the returning handset ( a brick in the original packaging is not sufficient ). This is by the by

 

The OP could use their statutory right to reject the handset with the supplier, and potentially pursue the supplier for damages in as much as they could claim for the termination charges that would be levied under the airtime contract with T-Mobile for ending the contract within term.

 

However the supplier may chose to defend this claim if they were able to supply evidence that a like for like replacement was offered and rejected by the OP, or that the OP refused to accept a replacement handset that offered equivalent features or that the OP was offered and rejected a loan handset. Also there would be no guarantee that a judge would find in favour of the OP.

 

The alternative would be to do as the OP has suggested in their post...take a different handset. This does not necessarily mean there would be reduced functionality as there many alternative handsets available which offer equivalent features, the choice of handset would depend on what make and model the supplier has chosen to stock.

 

As buzby has pointed out, the airtime agreement with T-Mobile is a separate contract to that which covers the OP's handset and is for the access to the T-Mobile network via the SIM card. As such is not intrinsically linked to the supply of handset from the OP's supplier. The OP has the option of obtaining a compatible handset.

[Bookworm]

IHowever the supplier may chose to defend this claim if they were able to supply evidence that a like for like replacement was offered and rejected by the OP, or that the OP refused to accept a replacement handset that offered equivalent features or that the OP was offered and rejected a loan handset.

But that's my point: They offered another handset, but then it turned out it was out of stock. Effectively, they offered nothing at all. :-?

 

Furthermore, I would argue all the way that if the phone + airtime were purchased as a package, then they are not a different contract at all, the fact the airtime can be accessed with another phone is irrelevant.

 

I'd really like an i-Phone. The i-phone comes with 02 only. If I were to join 02 so I can get an i-phone and I was then told "oh sorry we can't supply you with one, use the airtime with another phone", are you seriously telling me I wouldn't be able to rescind the whole contract? I don't think so.

 

OP isn't getting the product he has bought, which in this instance is a certain phone + airtime. Since he was PAYG before, it's not unreasonable to assume he only joined that network because the phone was on that network, if he can't get the phone, then he shouldn't be tied to that network. Just imagine the scope for abuse otherwise... Attract people with the offer of a nice phone, tie them down to a contract then say you can't supply the nice phone and still have people tied in to that contract for 12 to 18 months.

[installspark]

Furthermore, I would argue all the way that if the phone + airtime were purchased as a package, then they are not a different contract at all, the fact the airtime can be accessed with another phone is irrelevant.

 

Argue all you like, the airtime agreement is a joint and severally different contract. You can have the handset and no airtime contract, the airtime contract and provide your own handset or have a network subsidised handset and the airtime agreement. The fact that the SIM will work in any compatible handset is relevant in this instance.

 

I'd really like an i-Phone. The i-phone comes with 02 only. If I were to join 02 so I can get an i-phone and I was then told "oh sorry we can't supply you with one, use the airtime with another phone", are you seriously telling me I wouldn't be able to rescind the whole contract? I don't think so.

 

Ha ha. The iphone is completely different. You can't have the iphone tariffs, both contract and PAYG, without an iphone. If a supplier cannot provide the iphone, there would be no contract to enter into as you cannot have one without the other. The iphone also has its own separate terms and conditions.

[Bookworm]

You're still missing the point. If a customer has signed an agreement so that he would get a specific handset and the handset is not made available, then the company has not fulfilled their side of the agreement.

 

Let's try and put it another way: You sign up for a gym in your local town, the contract is for 12 months. 3 months later, they close the gym down and do not another one near you. By your logic, the gym could still hold you to the whole 12 months membership even though they have failed to supply you with the facilities for which you signed.

 

You lease a car for a year. The car breaks down and the hire company can not supply you with another one. By the logic used higher, they can still charge you for the lease. Why not? The roads are still available for you to use!

 

In the case of the OP, the salient question is: would he have signed up for this contract if it hadn't been for this particular handset? If the answer to this is "no", then the airtime is only an add-on, not a standalone contract and this particular handset is a "core" term.

[born2bongo]

Thanks for the discussion everyone. It was meant to be a doorstep swap-out.

 

I could see both sides of your arguments, but luckily the supplier has gone with the Bookworm approach. The contract is cancelled (although we have lost the first month's payment), and the phone deposit is being refunded. Luckily I married a Rottweiler!

 

Regarding available alternatives, I wrote a list of requirements, and even the Omnia doesn't have it all. Its nearest competitors were more of a compromise, so I don't agree there is an alternative.

 

And to answer Bookworm's final point, I'm not interested in a contract while I continue with my old phone. It's not worth it if I'm not going online and getting mail.

 

After a brief scan of the internet today, it might be worth waiting for the Nokia N97, but I need to research further. Failing that, I would still go back to the Omnia, if I can get one.

 

Thanks again

B2B

[installspark]

I could see both sides of your arguments, but luckily the supplier has gone with the Bookworm approach. The contract is cancelled (although we have lost the first month's payment), and the phone deposit is being refunded. Luckily I married a Rottweiler!

 

After a brief scan of the internet today, it might be worth waiting for the Nokia N97, but I need to research further. Failing that, I would still go back to the Omnia, if I can get one.

 

Thanks again

B2B

 

Glad to see you got it sorted, make sure that you have confirmation that the contract has been cancelled by the supplier in writing though. From experience of working in a retentions department, a lot of 3rd party suppliers will say that the contract has been cancelled when in fact it has not.

 

When the N97 is released, approx end q1 09 beginning q2 09, don't expect to be able to get the handset foc on tariffs below £50.00 - £75.00 for the first couple of months after release as the cost to the networks in subsidy is too high. Looks like it could be a good handset, even if it is taking its design cue from HTC.