Why is no one claiming the contractual rate of interest???

[redsonja]

Hi,

 

Just a quick question....

 

Does anyone have a "works" spreadsheet that calculates compounded contractual interest? I dont have Excel. I have filled in Vamps spreadsheet 16 and thought it was ok but now viewing a few threads Im a bit worried it may not have worked properly if people are having problems with it. I wanted to work it out on a Works one to check them against each other. Knowing my luck they will see Ive mucked up and I will end up looking (and feeling) like a complete pleb!

 

Can anyone help please?

[bill-k]

Howdy pardner,

 

You need to take plenty of time to read up here. If you try and cram too much in too quickly, then you will just acquire a headache, and confusion.

 

If you're claiming contractual interest, you claim the interest from the very outset. Statutory interest is then only claimed if you get to the court claim stage, and only "in the alternative" as a fall-back.

 

If you're about to send off your LBA, then you appear to have already sent your prelim, and yet you still haven't got any figures ready !

 

If I were you, I'd stop right now, and make sure you know what you're doing before you go any further. Read up some more. Then when you've done that - guess what ?

 

See if these links prove useful:-

 

Beginners' Steps:-

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/post-475208.html

Trouble finding stuff? Michael Browne's A-Z Guide:-

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/site-questions-suggestions/53182-cant-find-what-youre.html#post436526

Spready guide:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/post-50088.html

Vampiress’s Google Chambers:

https://www.google.com/accounts/ServiceLogin?service=wise&passive=true&nui=1&continue=http%3A%2F%2Fspreadsheets.google.com%2Fccc%3Fnew

[Delboy01]

Hi Bill ta for your help the other day...

 

I was wondering if there is such a thing as a compounded contractual interest Buddy?, as I aint got a clue calculation wise.

 

Take a look at my thread to see if its worthy of CCI

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/woolwich/43450-delboy-against-woolwich-5.html

[bram stoker]

Hi,

 

Just a quick question....

 

Does anyone have a "works" spreadsheet that calculates compounded contractual interest? I dont have Excel. I have filled in Vamps spreadsheet 16 and thought it was ok but now viewing a few threads Im a bit worried it may not have worked properly if people are having problems with it. I wanted to work it out on a Works one to check them against each other. Knowing my luck they will see Ive mucked up and I will end up looking (and feeling) like a complete pleb!

 

Can anyone help please?

There has been no problem with the spreadsheet since before Christmas. I think Bill was referring to an upgrade where we have devised a formula to enter either a + or - figure as you average overdrawn balance.

 

However, feel free to check the figures, you should always have peace of mind. There must be someone around with a Works version you could use.

[bill-k]

Sorry RedSonja, missed your post while I was replying to Howdy's. If you like, post up here a couple of lines, along with the interest rate you're claiming, and I or somebody will check your figures on their sheet.

 

Most problems seem to be caused by people getting used to the Google facility itself, as opposed to probs with spreadies. Yes, as Vamp says, it has really just been minor ongoing "tweaks" for ease of use.

[Mindzai]

Hi Bill ta for your help the other day...

 

I was wondering if there is such a thing as a compounded contractual interest Buddy?, as I aint got a clue calculation wise.

 

Take a look at my thread to see if its worthy of CCI

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/woolwich/43450-delboy-against-woolwich-5.html

 

 

There a numerous spreadsheets available that do this. There's plenty of google sheets linked to by bill just above, and in my sig there is a link to an Excel sheet. You don't need to worry about the maths, but you DO need to be able to explain what you are doing and why you are doing it to a judge. If you don't understand about contractual interest yet, you need to do a lot more reading and make sure you truly understand why you can claim it.

 

I would guess most of the info you need is in this very thread, but like bill has said, take your time and dont read it all in on go!

[HowdyDoody]

Thanks Bill K - much obliged.

 

ps - i did mean prelim letter, not LBA - sorry for the confusion.

 

Thankin you,

 

HD

[bill-k]

Hi Bill ta for your help the other day...

 

I was wondering if there is such a thing as a compounded contractual interest Buddy?, as I aint got a clue calculation wise.

 

Take a look at my thread to see if its worthy of CCI

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/woolwich/43450-delboy-against-woolwich-5.html

 

Been there Delboy and you seem to have got it all sewn up anyway !! We're all your contractual buddies here !! Ican't add much more to my post there, and what Mindzai has said. You've as good as cracked it, mate. Luvly Jubbly !!!

[bill-k]

Thanks Bill K - much obliged.

 

ps - i did mean prelim letter, not LBA - sorry for the confusion.

 

Thankin you,

 

HD

OK, good, then I reckon you oughtta sort your spready out now, then when you're sure about it, send a further prelim with the spready and claim the penalties and interest detailed on the spready.

[Bankboy]

Most problems seem to be caused by people getting used to the Google facility itself, as opposed to probs with spreadies.

 

I agree with that! It took me some time to work out that you have to copy the Google Spreadsheet in order to use it. Then fill in your own details.... (not forgetting the month/day/year thing!)

 

Do not, however, copy it to Excel or (I Guess) any other application until you have finished as you will lose functionality -

 

i.e. The formulas don't transfer between the different spreadsheet applications and you will have to re-enter them (if you're smarter than me).

 

I've read this thread from start to finish and hadn't seen this pointed out so I hope it helps someone!

 

Great thread - thanks for all the enlightenment. Tomorrow the prelim.

[Delboy01]

Been there Delboy and you seem to have got it all sewn up anyway !! We're all your contractual buddies here !! Ican't add much more to my post there, and what Mindzai has said. You've as good as cracked it, mate. Luvly Jubbly !!!

 

Nah thats just it I havnt been anywhere near contractual on my thread

 

ive only bin to statutary int land, to scared to go contractual land without a buddy

[bill-k]

Most problems seem to be caused by people getting used to the Google facility itself, as opposed to probs with spreadies.

 

I agree with that! It took me some time to work out that you have to copy the Google Spreadsheet in order to use it. Then fill in your own details.... (not forgetting the month/day/year thing!)

 

Do not, however, copy it to Excel or (I Guess) any other application until you have finished as you will lose functionality -

 

i.e. The formulas don't transfer between the different spreadsheet applications and you will have to re-enter them (if you're smarter than me).

 

I've read this thread from start to finish and hadn't seen this pointed out so I hope it helps someone!

 

Great thread - thanks for all the enlightenment. Tomorrow the prelim.

 

Well done, Bankboy. No, the spreadsheet info you were looking for here is actually in Vamp's Guide to her spreadsheets. She has two guides listed on the Chambers front page. This is the spready guide here:-

 

GUIDE TO SPREADSHEETS

 

I think a lot of people are missing these, hence the problems later.

 

But, hey !! You're that much the wiser for reading this thread, eh ?

 

[bill-k]

Nah thats just it I havnt been anywhere near contractual on my thread

 

ive only bin to statutary int land, to scared to go contractual land without a buddy

ok got spreadsheet working ok and it works out at £4000+ plus £700 interest. now that is statutory interest.. anyone got any info on contractual interest and how much that may work out figure wise...

 

Also, anyone gone for contractual interest and won????

 

Sorry Delboy, you've got buddies here, but you have to want to be helped !!!

 

Just 2 questions, then:

 

1. Are you at least interested in claiming contractual ?

 

2. What spreadsheet are you using ?

[natwesttookmymoney]

How do, Howdy Doody

 

Claim contractual interest. A lot of people are going for unauthorised rate and I won't go into the arguments why here. If you've been in overdraft, the very least you should charge is the 'authorised overdraft' rate. At 8%, you're letting them get away with loads of money - your money, which they've debited from your account. It's part of the reason why you keep getting charged more and more.

 

So go after it - get it all back.

 

Westy

[tifo]

what contractual rate do we actually use?

 

the banks rate at the time (going back 5 years and it doesn't say on my statements what this is) or the current rate?

 

also, yorkshire bank charged me £4.00 a day. If i charge this back it looks excessive .... since its been nearly 6 years to the day ....

 

i was reading on another forum, and threads on this forum, NOT to go for contractual interest either for current account or credit card claims, since it is better in a judge's view to keep it to stat 8%.

 

so i am totally confused and want to claim contractual as it adds nearly 2.5 times the interest compared to my charges (£1000 charges and £2,500 contractual interest) as opposed to stat 8% which adds only £400.

 

i don't want to get it wrong from the start.

 

i have sent a letter to a bank asking for only the charges, and stat 8% to be added later. Should i send another letter stating charges are to be added to the amount asked, at the current unauth rate of £xxxx?

 

thoroughly confused and want a definitive answer ....

[Glenn UK]

what contractual rate do we actually use?

 

the banks rate at the time (going back 5 years and it doesn't say on my statements what this is) or the current rate?Current rate

 

also, yorkshire bank charged me £4.00 a day. If i charge this back it looks excessive When you apply interest you are applying the terms of the contract, as much as the resulting sums may be large to you and me, its not our fault. If the court, should it get there, decide you haven't applied to terms of the contract correctly or are being unfair its up to them to moderate your claim. Fairness is only a matter of perspective when you have to pay more than you want/should i think.since its been nearly 6 years to the day ....

 

i was reading on another forum, and threads on this forum, NOT to go for contractual interest either for current account or credit card claims, since it is better in a judge's view to keep it to stat 8%.Well its probably a bank in disguise telling you that! The judge will be interested to see whether the claim for contractual interest has any merit in law, nothing else, if it doesn't then the judge wont award it, if it does they will. As far as I can make out judges like the law best since thats why they try to interpret and apply, not their own likes and dislikes.

 

so i am totally confused and want to claim contractual as it adds nearly 2.5 times the interest compared to my charges (£1000 charges and £2,500 contractual interest) as opposed to stat 8% which adds only £400.

 

i don't want to get it wrong from the start.

 

i have sent a letter to a bank asking for only the charges, and stat 8% to be added later. Should i send another letter stating charges are to be added to the amount asked, at the current unauth rate of £xxxx?

 

thoroughly confused and want a definitive answer ....

 

There is no 'definitive answer' its down to each individual because if it comes to it they will have to argue for what they put on the claim form.

 

I, and a load of other people think, that for the contract to be fair it has to be bilateral, ie both parties can benefit form the terms and conditions, if only one side can then by definition the contract is unfair IMHO, on this basis it is entirely reasonable to apply the terms of the contract relevant to the unauthorised use of your moeny to the banks unlawful charges.

 

JMHO

 

Glenn

[tifo]

thanks glen,

 

i am sh*%&*ng it asking yorkshire bank for a charge levied at £4.00 a day for the last 6 years (charges started in Jan 2001 so exactly 6 years). The charges to claim are £452.

 

i just worked it out and the total comes to £289,880 (number of days x £4.00). Do you really think a judge would allow this? After all, i have a letter from them stating they will charge £4.00 a day for unauth fee and they have done so.

 

i think maybe i should go for a contractual rate ....

[Glenn UK]

Tifo

 

 

The numbers look big but i am not sure what you are asking?

 

if the bank charged you 4/day for being overdrawn then thats what you ask them. 4/day for 6 years comes out at (4 x 365 x 6) 8760 by my calcs how did you arrive at 452 and 289,880?

 

if the sum you are getting is this large then you charges must be enormous.

 

This may be a stupid question but since i don't know the bank in question how do they charge for exceeding the OD?

 

Do they charge you 4/day you are over the limit plus interest at a higher rate too? i presume that once the 4/day is added to your balance owing then it attracts interst in the same way the rest of hte balance would too.

 

and then i presume that they charge you per item returned or whatever too?

 

Perhaps it would be best to discuss this in your own thread rather than here.

 

Glenn

[tifo]

Glenn,

 

I've mentioned before it is Yorkshire Bank.

 

I've come to that enormous figure by £4 x number of days per individual charge. So if a charge was 1000 days ago, then its £4 x 1000 = £4,000 and so on ....

 

i get your point that it should be £4 x total number of days since total charge and not per charge .... from start to now it is 2232 days (i wasn't charged every day at the time as i paid money in as well) but from the last charge date it is 2043 days, then they closed the account. So should i add £4 x 2043 = £8172 which is almost bang on your figure?

 

Or i could go into a branch and ask what they charge now and use that?

 

they charged me £32 per returned item, plus interest, plus £4 a day when it went over my limit of £100 overdraft.

 

i don't think they charged an unauth overdraft fee as in APR ... the £4 showed as unauth O/D fee. So that is the only think i can see that i can charge them.

 

Yes, i will start my own thread on Yorkshire Bank when i send the prelim letter this week. I was trying to figure our what to ask them for, contractual, £4 a day or stat 8%.

[MgintyMIA]

Hello again,

Ok, I have used Mindzai's spreadsheet to do the contractual interest.

I am claiming in two accounts. Using 19.9% (unauthorised aer) as opposed to 10.9% (authorised aer)

Account 1: £2362 penalties + £2532.06 compound interest + £215.20 interest paid on penalties + £194.31 compound interest = £5303.57

Accoutn 2: £500 penalties + £390.17 compound interest + £9.56 interest paid on penalties + £4.10 compound interest = £903.84

 

I am planning on sending these off as two claims but am concerned that the account1 is over £5000. I've tried looking for posts about this but the search was too general!

 

My questions:

1) I believe I have to use mcol as the amount is over 5k. Do I submit one as small claims and one as mcol or just do both mcol?

2) Do I need to send statement copies and summary sheets? I have Summary sheets that show the charges and also indicate when the charges will be taken off. Are these sufficent or should I send actual statements too?

3) I am assuming that if I have had debit interest on my overdraft when in agreeed limit, I cannot claim on this?

 

many thanks again!

[tifo]

hi ...

 

i've started my own thread at http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/yorkshire-bank-clydesdale-bank/60832-tifo-yorkshire-bank.html

 

the letter i have from Yorkshire Bank stating £4 a day is also shown as an image.

 

Thanks.

[tifo]

some of my claims may be over £5k as well ...

 

isn't it the charges have to be below £5k and the interest is not included in this limit, or is that only for the stat 8%?

[MgintyMIA]

Hoping this hasn't been posted twice but I *think* that if you are claiming a) your charges only, this is your claim amount and the court awards 8% statutory on top.

If you are claiming b) charges plus contractual interest, then this is your claim amount so if either over 5k, then mcol i believe.

Someone with more knowledge than I should confirm I hope!

[Glenn UK]

Hello again,

OK, I have used Mindzai's spreadsheet to do the contractual interest.

I am claiming in two accounts. Using 19.9% (unauthorized aer) as opposed to 10.9% (authorized aer)

Account 1: £2362 penalties + £2532.06 compound interest + £215.20 interest paid on penalties + £194.31 compound interest = £5303.57

Account 2: £500 penalties + £390.17 compound interest + £9.56 interest paid on penalties + £4.10 compound interest = £903.84

 

I am planning on sending these off as two claims but am concerned that the account1 is over £5000. I've tried looking for posts about this but the search was too general!

 

My questions:

1) I believe I have to use MCOL as the amount is over 5k. Do I submit one as small claims and one as MCOL or just do both MCOL? I think you can use MCOL for monetary claims up to 100,000 on value so you'll just about squeeze in there i think. However, on a personal note i would recommend you use a N1 to file your claim at court. You are not then restricted in the amount of information you can supply in your particulars of claim. When claiming contractual interest this is in my view definitely the route to go.

2) Do I need to send statement copies and summary sheets? I have Summary sheets that show the charges and also indicate when the charges will be taken off. Are these sufficient or should I send actual statements too? When you submit your claim you prepare a schedule of charges showing the date, the amount and what the charge was for. If you file using the N1 you attach your schedule and anything else you wish to use to support your claim to that form (three copies of everything). If you use MCOL, then i believe you wait till you get notification that the claim has been issued and then you send a copy of the schedule along with a covering letter to the court with a copy of both to the defendant.

3) I am assuming that if I have had debit interest on my overdraft when in agreed limit, I cannot claim on this? I don't agree with this, if you have incurred charges then you have either paid interest or lost interest so regardless of whether you account was in debit or credit the charges had an impact beyond their simple value on the resulting account balance. I know that this present a difficulty with the spreadsheets in some cases, when i did mine if the account was in credit when the interest was applied i inserted my value of -0.01. The spreadsheet then allocated an amount of interest as what i had paid. Not very scientific but so far none of the banks i have claimed from have complained.

 

many thanks again!

 

Re claims over 5K, the court has discretion as to whether to allocate them to small claims track or not. The rules guiding courts suggest interest is not included for track allocation purposes but is for fee determination i believe.

 

So if you are including statutory interest id say its not a problem it will end up in the small claims track.

 

Now the bugger, i don't believe that the CPR intended to deal with interest arising out of the contract as we are claiming it does in our claims in this way. Others disagree and as yet no one to my knowledge has had a definitive answer.

 

So in your case with the contractual interest taking it over the 5k threshold you have to decide whether to ask the court nicely to allocate you 5.3K to the small claims track and they probably will.

 

Or you can say sod it and let the court decide to allocate it to fast track if they please. The good side is that along with allocation to fast track comes standard disclosure (thats the equivalent of garlic to a vampire or a silver bullet to a werewolf).

 

The flip side (theres always one sent there?) is that if you lost your claim you could be liable for the other sides costs and in fast track this is generally limited to 750 unless the court considers you have been unreasonable.

 

Personally i doubt that you would loose and if you did then i doubt the judge would consider you unreasonable if you followed the route set out herein.

 

HTH

 

Glenn

[bram stoker]

Just to emphasise a point there by Glenn, you must be fully aware of the risks if you do end up allocated to fast-track. There was a user had a lot to pay on a claim regarding a mortgage early redemption penalty that had been allocated to fast track. Please be very careful.

 

Good luck.