Halifax sends CCA fob off letter

[ukmp3]

I sent the "you haven't replied with in the time specified" letter yesterday and this morning I got a letter form the Halifax.... so they crossed in the post.

 

All they have sent is a very neat computer print out of the full terms and conditions. The front page of their letter claims they don't have to give me anything... can this be right?

 

Any advice.......?

 

[maroondevo52]

Hi,ukmp3.

 

What was it you sent them and what sort of account is it, also how old is the account.

 

Regards.

 

Scott.

[ukmp3]

Letter sent below.

 

Credit card

 

2 years old

 

 

18/11/2008

Halifax Card Services

SPECIALISED LENDING TEAM

HBOS

PO BOX 316

CARDIFF

CF23 8FN

Re: − All Accounts held with yourselves over the past 6 years (2002 – 2008) as noted below

According to my credit file the following account information is available at this time:

Account Type Started Current Balance Credit Limit/Payment Settled On

Credit Card – 40497xxxxxxxxxx7 07/03/2007 £2,501.00 £2,550.00 N/A

This letter is a formal request pursuant to s.77/78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. I require you to provide me with a true copy of

the credit agreement relating to the above account(s), together with any other documentation the Act requires you to provide.

I expect you to comply fully and properly with this request, within the statutory time limit. You are reminded that should you fail to

comply with my request, the provisions of s.77(6) will apply.

If it is your view that you are not the creditor, s.175 of the CCA 1974 applies in the case of a simple assignment, and places a duty

upon you to pass this request to the creditor. In the case of an absolute assignment, you are a creditor as defined by s.189. If you

contend that you purchased the rights but not the duties of any agreement, you are reminded that s.189 of the Act is clear that an

assignment is of both rights and duties.

Your attention is drawn to ss.5(2), 3(b),6 and 7 of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 (CPUTR).

I enclose a postal order in the sum of £1.00, which is the statutory fee. Note that these funds are not to be used for any other

purpose. (One is included per account indicated above)

If you are unable to comply fully and properly with this request, you should confirm this in writing at the earliest opportunity, and

certainly within the statutory time limit for compliance, and return the fee.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Yours faithfully

[maroondevo52]

OK, Thanks for that, I'll ask my mate if he can help

 

Regards.

 

Scott.

[42man]

Did they enclose a copy of the executed agreement as they mention in their letter ?

[42man]

Dear Sirs,

 

Account Number: XXX

 

Re; your recent reply to my request under section 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

I note that you have replied to the above by sending your companies current Terms and conditions I must inform you that this is not sufficient to comply with the request and that your company is still in default under the act.

 

To clarify, just sending the Terms and Conditions is a breach of the Act and Regulations as, apart from the information that the Regulations provide that you may exclude, the copy must be a “true copy” of the agreement.

 

This breach of the agreement can be demonstrated as follows;

As you will know section 180(1) (b) authorises, “the omission from a copy of certain material from the original, or the inclusion of certain material in condensed form.” This refers to statutory instruments made under the heading Copies of document regulations and in this care in particular to SI 1983/1557.

 

Before leaving section 180 there are two other sections that should be remembered these are:

 

Section 2(2) (a) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not satisfied unless the copy supplied is in the prescribed form and conforms to the prescribed requirements;

 

And more importantly

 

Section 2(b) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not infringed by the omission of any material, or its inclusion in condensed form, if that is authorised by regulations.

 

You will see that this quite clearly states that whilst certain items may be left out of the copy document the rest of the document must be in the form and contain all items as prescribed by the regulations.

 

Turning to the regulations regarding what may be omitted from these copies these are contained with SI 1983/1557.

 

The regulations state:

(2) There may be omitted from any such copy-

(a) any information included in an executed agreement, security instrument or other document relating to the debtor, hirer or surety or included for the use of the creditor or owner only which is not required to be included therein by the Act or any Regulations thereunder as to the form and content of the document of which it is a copy;

(b) any signature box, signature or date of signature (other than, in the case of a copy of a cancelable executed agreement delivered to the debtor under section 63(1) of the Act, the date of signature by the debtor of an agreement to which section 68(b) of the Act applies);

 

It is quite clear what can be omitted from the copy document, this again asserts that all other details of the agreement should presented in form and content as required by the regulations.

 

The requirements of the Agreement regulations 1983/1553 are very explicit in describing the form and content of an agreement and this as I have demonstrated also applies to the copy of any such agreement with the above mentioned proviso.

 

Nowhere within these regulations does it state that part of the agreement can be presented on a separate document headed terms and conditions.

It does state that all terms and conditions should be within the agreement document and is explicit of the form in which it is presented.

 

I hope this explains why your reply was unacceptable I await a True copy of my agreement and would remind you again that whilst the request has not been complied with the default continues

 

Yours faithfully

[ukmp3]

This is what I sent yesterday, just sod's law that their letter came today.

 

Do I still need to send the above letter as well?

 

 

Edited December 19, 2008 by ukmp3
images too small

[42man]

Yes send the one above ukmp...I certainly would if I was in your position..

[ukmp3]

Yes send the one above ukmp...I certainly would if I was in your position..

 

UG this doest sound good........

 

Q. Is this usually for the Halifax?

 

I am still waiting for Alliance and Leicester (MBNA) to write back - I sent them the letter above yesterday as well.

[millymollymoo]

subscribing and hi:) dodgy terms and conditions with NO sigs or boxes anywhere is a favourite of these as well as them confirming that they do not have provide thsi info under the CCA:rolleyes:

 

Emm....maybe because they have nowt:)

 

Milly XX

[ukmp3]

MBNA (A&L) sent back a print out with a tick to sign box (internet app) dated 10th October 2006.

 

Can I do anything?

 

Halifax still not responded.

[ukmp3]

MBNA (A&L) sent back a print out with a tick to sign box (internet app) dated 10th October 2006.

 

Can I do anything or is this OK as far as the CCA is concerned?

 

 

 

Halifax still not responded so I am waiting.

[ukmp3]

I wonder if I can get some advice on what to do next.

 

A&L - sent a form with a "tick box" on it

Halifax - not responded

 

What do I do now?

[maroondevo52]

Hi, ukmp3.

 

As The Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Electronic Communications) Order 2004 came into force in December 2004 any online agreements entered into prior to this date still need a signed executed credit agreement.

Electronic signatures weren't considered valid until this date.

 

As yours is from 2006, don't think there's much you can do about it.

 

I'd give Halifax a bit more time.

 

Regards.

 

Scott.

[millymollymoo]

Cool mine online application was from 2002. they only sent a blank credit agreement.

 

Milly X

[rb2010]

Hi,

 

This is my first time posting on the site and i'm looking for some advice. I am a full time student and some years ago had a personal loan with Bank of scotland/halifax and a student overdraft.

 

I fell behind with my loan payments and it was referred to Blair, Oliver and Scott along with my overdraft, which at the time of taking out was told by the bank that i would not need to pay back until i had graduated. However, my account was closed half way through my course and i am now making payments to my loan and overdraft via Blair etal.

 

I have been reading some posts and have sent letters to blair et al requesting credit agreements for both debts. What i would like to know is what do i do next once the 30 days are up, whether i get a reply or not from blair et al?

 

I feel that they shift the goal posts whenever they feel necessary, since i started paying the debt via blair et al i have not missed a payment, but they keep harassing me to make increased payments and i am still studying. they know this but refuse to leave me alone everytime they decide to up my payments.

 

when i was making my last payment i chanced it and asked the call handler to send me out the agreements and she said no problem, however, all i got was a list of the payments i had made. So, don't think they will send me any agreements.

 

Also, is it true that a debt is not enforceable under the original bank agreement if it has been passed to a company such as blair et al?

 

Where does this stand with overdrafts?

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Below is the original letter i sent out.

 

Blair Oliver and Scott

PO Box 66

Rosyth

KY11 2WG

(Via recorded delivery)

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

Re: xxxxxxxx

I am presently striving to organise my personal information and can find no reference to the above agreement that I am presently paying money into.

 

Could I ask that you supply me with a true copy of the agreement? I understand that this is my right under the legislation contained within section 77 (1) and section 78 (1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. I also understand that it is your obligation to provide me with a statement of account. I enclose a £1 postal order in payment of the statutory fee.

 

Since you are a Debt Collection Agency could I ask that you supply a signed true copy of the deed of assignment of the above referenced agreement? This is, I understand, an obligation, whether you are the original creditor or not, under section 189 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

I hope to hear from you within the statutory time limit.

 

Yours faithfully,

[ukmp3]

Hi, ukmp3.

 

As The Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Electronic Communications) Order 2004 came into force in December 2004 any online agreements entered into prior to this date still need a signed executed credit agreement.

Electronic signatures weren't considered valid until this date.

 

As yours is from 2006, don't think there's much you can do about it.

 

I'd give Halifax a bit more time.

 

Regards.

 

Scott.

 

Thanks for letting me know.

 

Shame about A&L

 

How long should I give the Halifax?

[andrew1980]

I do not know if anyone has read my earlier thread, but I have had a similar problem with the halifax in that they will not send me actual copies of my roginal statements, and only let me have amended copies where the charges are shown as a couple fo pounds and then the rest of the original charge is made up of interest. Does this sound familiar to anyone.

[jaystar2020]

Hi Andrew1980

Were amended copies sent in response to SAR request?

[ukmp3]

Still nothing from the Halifax... Now what should I do next?

[maroondevo52]

What was the last thing you sent to them,and when ?

[ukmp3]

Sent the below by registered post on the 18/12/2009 as per my previous post.

 

The fob off letter came before they could have had and read this but I am guessing they wont respond....

 

Dear Sirs,

 

Account Number: XXX

 

Re; your recent reply to my request under section 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

I note that you have replied to the above by sending your companies current Terms and conditions I must inform you that this is not sufficient to comply with the request and that your company is still in default under the act.

 

To clarify, just sending the Terms and Conditions is a breach of the Act and Regulations as, apart from the information that the Regulations provide that you may exclude, the copy must be a “true copy” of the agreement.

 

This breach of the agreement can be demonstrated as follows;

As you will know section 180(1) (b) authorises, “the omission from a copy of certain material from the original, or the inclusion of certain material in condensed form.” This refers to statutory instruments made under the heading Copies of document regulations and in this care in particular to SI 1983/1557.

 

Before leaving section 180 there are two other sections that should be remembered these are:

 

Section 2(2) (a) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not satisfied unless the copy supplied is in the prescribed form and conforms to the prescribed requirements;

 

And more importantly

 

Section 2(b) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not infringed by the omission of any material, or its inclusion in condensed form, if that is authorised by regulations.

 

You will see that this quite clearly states that whilst certain items may be left out of the copy document the rest of the document must be in the form and contain all items as prescribed by the regulations.

 

Turning to the regulations regarding what may be omitted from these copies these are contained with SI 1983/1557.

 

The regulations state:

(2) There may be omitted from any such copy-

(a) any information included in an executed agreement, security instrument or other document relating to the debtor, hirer or surety or included for the use of the creditor or owner only which is not required to be included therein by the Act or any Regulations thereunder as to the form and content of the document of which it is a copy;

(b) any signature box, signature or date of signature (other than, in the case of a copy of a cancelable executed agreement delivered to the debtor under section 63(1) of the Act, the date of signature by the debtor of an agreement to which section 68(b) of the Act applies);

 

It is quite clear what can be omitted from the copy document, this again asserts that all other details of the agreement should presented in form and content as required by the regulations.

 

The requirements of the Agreement regulations 1983/1553 are very explicit in describing the form and content of an agreement and this as I have demonstrated also applies to the copy of any such agreement with the above mentioned proviso.

 

Nowhere within these regulations does it state that part of the agreement can be presented on a separate document headed terms and conditions.

It does state that all terms and conditions should be within the agreement document and is explicit of the form in which it is presented.

 

I hope this explains why your reply was unacceptable I await a True copy of my agreement and would remind you again that whilst the request has not been complied with the default continues

 

Yours faithfully

[maroondevo52]

Hi,

 

I'd sit it out a bit longer, maybe until the end of the week, if nothing comes, we'll ask 42man what to do next

 

Regards.

 

Scott.

[ukmp3]

Thanks... I will sit tight.... you cant know how tightly my fingers are crossed that they have got the agreement docs... by far the biggest debt that makes a difference between managing or not so to speak.

[ukmp3]

OK... still no reply.. continuing to add interest and now a £12 charge for being a day late on a cleared payment!

 

Having been out of work for 5 months now I need to take some action.

 

What can I/Should I do next?