NatWest - No Credit Agreement, so Natwests takes my Money from my current account without my consent!!!

[tem19]

Yes Sosumi it's with a totally different bank. I transferred all of my money into the new bank account from the accounts I had with NatWest and asked NatWest to cancel my overdraft on 23rd December, which they confirmed they would do. Instead of doing that, they took £1100 out of my £1500 overdraft that they were supposed to have cancelled. They can only get at the overdraft money. All other monies they cannot get at and all payments/direct debits into or from the natwest account have been cancelled. I closed my savings accounts, which had nothing in them. They keep on setting up standing orders without my consent to take monies from the current account and they will keep on doing so until the overdraft is spent. From my experian report what they have done is only entered my current account on there so I reckon that once they have exhausted the possibilities of taking from my overdraft they will simply put a default on my credit file, which is what I want to avoid.

[sosumi]

That's a relief!

Wish I could help you more, but we're struggling to pay off our current account overdraft with them and it's been hard slog all the way. We both have defaults on our credit files that were put there as a result of a complaint - the complaint being that though we were making monthly payments, they had closed the account and were very quietly adding interest to it.

I can only echo what 2grumpy's said.

[tem19]

Some latest news! NatWest have now found a copy of my CCA agreement from 2002 and have posted it to me (and of course are demanding payment). It has my signature on it and a signature on behalf of the bank. It looks like a genuine enough copy, the only concern I have is that it doesn't seem to have the number of monthly repayments on it, just the total amount i am to pay. Another thing is that it seems that the bank did not comply with its own terms, the terms gave me a years payment holiday but the bank representatives actually gave me three years holiday, there are some other things on the terms that I'm really not sure about or were not complied with but I do think that it's a true copy. So i guess that leaves them free to do whatever they want!

[slick132]

Hi Tem,

 

Can you post the doc't here so it can be checked over.

[tem19]

Thanks Slick, will do. I should be able to get it scanned and attached tomorrow.

[tem19]

Another thing Slick, I don't know whether you or any legal heads around the forums know the answer to this but even if this agreement is indeed properly executed, Natwest modified the terms (e.g. the payment holiday became 3 yrs instead of the 1 yr on the agreement, I have always paid on 24th of each month rather than 16th as stated on the agreement, I have only ever paid £271.53 per month rather than the £297 from 2003 to 2006 as stated on the agreement) so therefore should there not have been an executed modified agreement in accordance with the 1983 Regs? If that is the case does that again make the agreement unenforceable? I wondered why they complied so suddenly with my CCA request after 5 months of waiting but they have still defaulted on my SAR. Could this be the reason?

[slick132]

Hi Tem,

 

The priority should be to post the Agree't doc't so it can be checked.

 

I'm out of my depth here but I think if the Agree't is enforceable that'll be an end to it, regardless of the payment holiday or the date of pay't each month.

 

If a judge was to consider the issue of enforceability I don't these details would come into the equation.

[tem19]

I'm trying to attach a pdf copy of the cca agreement now. How do I do it (I can't see anything that allows you to do it)

[tem19]

Sorry, just worked out how to upload (silly me!) Here goes. Let me have your verdicts on enforceablity.

Tem's 'natwest CCA agreement'084.pdf

[slick132]

I've flagged this up to be checked over for you.

 

[cerberusalert]

The maths don't add up:confused:

 

£13, 000 loan amount + £ 8,388.53 Total charge for credit should give a total amount repayable of £21,388.53 NOT £23,388.53

 

I would suggest that this alone makes the agreement invalid.

[tem19]

Many thanks for that, Slick. I'll keep my fingers crossed on the result!

[tem19]

Thanks Cerubsalert, the loan was for £15k though, so maybe that's why they worked out £23k (although my maths is terrible, lol).

[cerberusalert]

It's my eyesight, the 5 looked like a 3 to me. And they've changed the 1 into 2 on the total amount payable.

[tem19]

You're right Cerubsalert, I noticed that too, number definitely changed from a 1 to a 2, but I'm not sure whether that makes it unenforceable? They've got me, haven't they?

[cerberusalert]

Hopefully one of the legal eagles on here will be able to give a definitive answer.

[tem19]

Yeah, I hope so. The one thing I could spot is that it doesn't set out the number of repayments in accordance with the 1983 regs but then maybe it doesn't have to, may be an either/or type of provision, so maybe the legal eagles could clarify on that. Thanks for your help Cerberusalert.

[tem19]

Yeah, I hope so. The one thing I could spot is that it doesn't set out the number of repayments in accordance with the 1983 regs but then maybe it doesn't have to, may be an either/or type of provision, so maybe the legal eagles could clarify on that. Thanks for your help Cerberusalert.

[tem19]

does anybody have any thoughts on the enforceability of this agreement?

[steven4064]

THe agreement is a bit odd in that it doesn't give the number of repayments. However, this situation is allowed under paragraph 9 of schedule 1 of the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983.

 

That being the case, schedule 6 then says that the interest rate becomes a prescribed term (which it isn't normally for a fixed sum loan). The agreement will therefore be enforceable if they have got the interest rate right (ie within the tolerance allowed in schedule 7)

[tem19]

Very interesting, thanks for your thoughts Steven4064. Another question which I ran past Slick, is are NatWest allowed to modify the agreement under the 1983 regulations. NatWest modified the terms (e.g. the payment holiday became 3 yrs instead of the 1 yr on the agreement, I have always paid on 24th of each month rather than 16th as stated on the agreement, I have only ever paid £271.53 per month rather than the £297 from 2003 to 2006 as stated on the agreement). Looking at their conditions I think they may have covered themselves anyway, but I just wondered whether the Regs allowed them to do that.

[tem19]

It's just that, given that they haven't mentioned the number of repayments, and the 3 yr holiday they gave increases the total amount due, does that modify the agreement and if so does the regs allow them to do so without producing a separate/additional doc?

[steven4064]

From 2003-2006 it was £297 per quarter not per month.

 

THis is what I think happened:

 

16/08/02 to 15/07/03 - no payments but interest accrued

16/08/03 to 15/07/06 - interest payments of £297/quarter (approx £99/.06/month)

16/08/06 to whenever - payments of £271.53 (estimate 73 payments)

 

Putting this in DualCalc I get TCC of £8388.21 (ie 30p out) and an APR of 7.5% (which corresponds to their rate of interest but not their APR although it is within tolerance on APR)

 

THe 73 payments would make your last payment in September 2012 - is that about right?

[tem19]

Ah Steven4064, the payments between 2003-2006 were supposed to be quarterly! I didn't even spot that! It all makes a lot more sense. 73 payments would be until Sept 2012, yes! Thanks so much for working that out, Steven4064 my maths is terrible! The only query is that around the time or very shortly after I'm supposed to have signed this agreement, they said they would give me a 3 yr payment holiday for some reason (I must admit I wasn't complaining at the time as I was still a student), so I never in fact paid anything at all in respect of this loan until December 2005, not even quarterly. My first payment was made then, so I guess it would vary the final payment date slightly. since then I paid £271.53 monthly right up to September 08, the date they told me they couldn't comply with my CCA request. Well I guess this may be the end of the line, but this forum has been an absolute Godsend, wow!:D

[tem19]

By the way, as at the date of my CCA request - Aug 2008, I still owed £15k - the same amount I borrowed in 2002 - which is what prompted me to ask a few questions about this agreement as I thought something didn't add up.