barclaycardcca v Muffintop

[Muffintop]

Experienced Caggers question please.

 

2 x creditors bc and mbna cca'd 3 months ago, nothing enforceable so placed account in dispute. teetering on a default notice as per their form, previously squeeky clean credit file..

I was thinking about token payments. if i were to pay a nominal amount ie a 1.00 each month would this keep the wolf (the bad marker on my credit file) and default as I would have made a payment albeit the wrong amount?

 

Im concerned that this may muck up the process of requesting cca and then placing account in default. can someone pse let me know what they think....

sorry to be inpatient but bumping on this one so its not lost with my other post

[deepdebt]

Hi muffintop.

 

I just wanted to let you know as I understand there can be significant monies claimed for all the work the OC has done to comply with your CPR request. I beleive the Civil Procedure Rules are of a clearer legal standing and implies you may start a court action against the OC or DCA.

 

As I'm new hear so your have to ask someone with much more knowledge than me. (mentioned thread took hours of reading).

[Muffintop]

thanks, if they had provided the information in their sar they wouldnt have to do lots of work to comply with the cpr request.... why they have to waste time I do not know, if they just sent out the copy of the agreement if they had it, this would stop wasting everyones time, mine, theirs the court etc... mad isnt it

[Muffintop]

Ref. dates letters received from DCA's etc. The keeping envelopes thang is because the bar code gives pick up info someone one CAG thought - so in the future it might be possible to decode, perhaps somebody will pick it up as a project. Letters only count as legally served if they are sent by recorded delivery, so any default notice not sent by recorded delivery has not been legally served - default notice, what default notice your honour. Which would be in addition (not with standing) to the account being in dispute at the time of the alleged dispute. Add it to the court case if you take them to court or have to defend a dodgy agreement. Let sleeping dogs.

interesting, most mobile phones have bar code readers, and they are not hard to get hold off, cant wait for my next envelope now

[deepdebt]

Yes but if they don't have it this way they can spend more time grinding you down so you pay!!! or they can't be bothered to allocate resources into finding it or FINALLY THEY ADMIT ALL AND GIVE UP.

 

Can't see the latter happening can you?

[Muffintop]

lol no cant see it either.

[deepdebt]

Nice to live the dream.

[slick132]

Hi MTop,

 

I don't think token pay'ts, even if they were agreed to be the OC, would avoid a DN being placed on your records, as you will have still failed to maintain pay'ts in accordance with their T&C's.

 

I don't personally see why the CPR should carry any significant risk re the OC's costs if they produce a valid Agreement in court. You can argue that they should have produced this in response to your CCA or at any time before you, or they, started proceedings.

 

There are many trying this now, so we should start to see how this works inpractical terms quite soon.

 

[deepdebt]

Hi slick132

 

Watching with interest.

[Muffintop]

Thanks Slick, may be dim but what is OC?

[slick132]

Hi MTop,

 

OC = Original Creditor, which in your case is BC.

 

[Muffintop]

Thanks you dont know how crazy thats been sending me bit like the old swalk holland days at school.

 

On another note check my credit file daily online and Barclaycard have put entries on which I have immediately placed a notice of correction on my credit file for. I rang barclaycard for what it was worth regarding my consumer credit agreement, the poor lad on the phone didnt have a clue and read of a sheet what he should do... the advice they have been given is that we are only entitled to our application forms... did try to point out to him that wasnt the case but he then got in a fluster and tried to transfer me after 5 mins of their crappy music i put the phone down.

But he did give me a specific address for writing about entries placed on the credit files and thought it would be usefull for peeps to write about any defaults.

Barclaycard House

Credit Reference Agency

PO Box 5592

Northampton

NN4 1ZY

 

 

 

RATS....

[Desperate Daniella]

Hi Muffintop,

 

Actually I think that is very useful information: Barclaycard are instructing their staff to give information which is blatantly untrue!!

 

What is wrong with these agreements?

 

DD

[angel_1]

Muffintop

 

wow, that is very interesting,

 

did you get it on any voice recording that conversation??? like daniella has also said, why the instruction from bcard to tell consumers only this??

 

i wonder what the ico would make of this?

 

laters guys and gals, angel x

[slick132]

Haha,

 

SWALK, I knew, but I had to look up HOLLAND....... and then I found NORWICH

 

Are you going to write to the CRA address ?

 

[angel_1]

Hi MTop,

 

I don't think token pay'ts, even if they were agreed to be the OC, would avoid a DN being placed on your records, as you will have still failed to maintain pay'ts in accordance with their T&C's.

 

I don't personally see why the CPR should carry any significant risk re the OC's costs if they produce a valid Agreement in court. You can argue that they should have produced this in response to your CCA or at any time before you, or they, started proceedings.

 

There are many trying this now, so we should start to see how this works inpractical terms quite soon.

 

 

 

hiya all and especially slick with this reply

 

my exact thoughts running through my head but couldnt put it so elagantly as you - thanks

 

Yes what costs, if they have to look for it they Should have looked for it within the time of 12 days as the law states, then whilst it is being in default, they can always get back to us many months or years down the first date of the cca request

 

im actually now fired up to do a few this pm - now ive got my voices of doubts in my head struck down that the cpr is really only a courtesy extension of the ORIGINAL cca request,,, now i do feel so much better

 

off to peg out the washing defo now, this site is so addictive i forget to do the usual boring things in the day

 

will be laters angel x

[Muffintop]

[Trading Standards asked for letter of authority to liaise with BC via their trading standard office in Northampton. They dont seem to get it though that if there isnt an enforceable agreement then there is no debt... they think that if the company has sent something resembling some sort of agreement even if its a tear off slip with no signature or terms etc then they have satisfied their s77 78 request... but a true copy and an exact copy in court are two different things. I may be taking a huge risk but Im hanging out for court.

 

]

I hereby give Trading Standards Office in Cheshire and Hertfordshire to liaise with you on the above account on my behalf in relation to any records you hold on me, including statements, phone calls and my account in general. I would be happy for you to show them a true copy of my alleged consumer credit agreement you claim you have.

 

]As you are aware the above account is in official dispute following your failure to send me a true copy of any executed consumer credit agreement I may have signed.

To date you have only sent me your current terms and conditions and no true copy of any agreement that I have a debt with you, I have recently requested a SAR under Data Protection which I have had no reply to.[/font]

I have been continually harassed by Barclaycard by telephone despite asking for all correspondence in writing and you have passed my information on to Mercer Debt Collection Agency who also ring continuously chasing an at the moment unenforceable debt.

Edited February 25, 2009 by Muffintop
tidied up

[slick132]

Hi MTop,

 

If I understand correctly, you need to give TS authority to discuss this with BC. You should also send BC authority for them to deal with TS re your a/c.

 

So the ltr to TS should read:-

 

Dear sir or madam,

I hereby authorise you to commincate with BC regarding my account no. xxxx xxxx concerning their continued failure to comply with:-

1. My request dated xx/xx/xx under CCA 1974 for a true copy of my Credit Agreement.

2. My SAR dated xx/xx/xx requesting information under the Data Protection Act.

Thank you for efforts in this regard.

Yours faithfully

And your letter to BC could be amended thus:-

 

Dear sir or madam,

Account No. xxxx xxxx

I hereby authorise you to communicate direct with Trading Standards Office in Cheshire and Hertfordshire concerning the above account.

Also to show them copies of any documents they request on my behalf including, but not limited to, original Credit Agreement, account statements, telephone call transcripts and letters.

As you are aware the above account is In Dispute following your failure comply with my CCA request dated xx/xx/xx and my SAR dated xx/xx/xx.

To date you have only sent me your current terms and conditions and I do not consider this to be an adequate response to my proper requests for which I have paid the appropriate fees.

 

I have been continually harassed by Barclaycard and Mercers by telephone, despite asking for all communication to be in writing only.

 

I also consider you to be in breach of the OFT Debt Collection Guidelines by passing the alleged debt to Mercers when the account is In Dispute.

 

I trust that you will co-operate with Trading Standards, and that you will put a hold on all collection action, including Mercers, until these issues are resolved. failure to do so will result in a Formal Complaint to the FOS.

 

Y F

 

[sunflower99]

Got another call at my workplace but this time i did not have the chance to quote law to them as someone else took call and passed message onto me.i already told the first bloke who hassled me at work while wishing me a nice day!that i did not take calls at work,i willl be sending them a telephone harrasement letter soon!I have sent off CCA request now! so will be waiting with great anticipation to see what they send me!

[slick132]

Hi MT,

 

You should complain in writing that they have breached sections of the OFT Debt Collection Guidelines:-

 

1. Section 2.6(a), re the call at work

 

2. Section 2.6(j), re leaving a msg with your colleague (assuming they let it be known this was anything to do with a debt).

 

You should make a Formal Complaint to the FOS in respect of this.

 

See Link No3 in my sig're below about the OFT DCGuidelines.

 

[Muffintop]

THANKS SLICK, good to have you on my side here.

 

Just stopped my letters in time to Trading Stand and changed them to reflect your suggestion above... have to say I spent all day on tcag yesterday and the letters were rushed, yours read much better.

 

re phone calls above post at work this is meant for Sunflower.. dare them to ring me at work... Im a Police Officer.dont think the establishment would like it much.

[Muffintop]

One other query while Im on here today.

Trading Standards I feel think that if BC and MBNA have sent me something then they have complied with the s77/78 request in sending what they believe to be a true copy.... and this is the issue TS are investigating.... they know that it could be a pile of poo but at the end of the day I can enforce the real, pucker, 100% real copy to be shown to me in court. or they could show me at their offices or just send a simple 1st generation copy even... Think TS a bit wary to give me too much info, they seemed surprised that I hadnt kept my orig agreement.

Every time your credit limit is raised should they send you something to say so, or produce a copy of the phone call in which you requested it... or ask for your to sign something to say you requested it... Otherwise on your first application/agreement the credit limit is likely to be much lower than it is after a few years of running it.

[slick132]

Hi MTop,

 

Yes, sorry the stuff about OFT is for Sunflower. It would be better if SF had posted this on her thread - with all the chat going on it's harder to keep track of each users case. No doubt, SF will see my response anyway.

 

I feel TS are usually unwilling to get too involved with these cases but we see them having a go now and then. I still think it's worth reporting BC to TS at Northampton so they will see the scale of the problem. But I wouldn't expect them to be of much help in our endeavours.

 

Let's wait and see........who knows.

 

I've not heard of any confirmation about increasing your limit - as I recall, you'd just see this on your statement.

[Muffintop]

tnx Slick, Hertfordshire TS are liaising with Northampton TS as this is where BC based as well as Cheshire the home town of MBNA. LETS WATCH AND SEE dont hold out much hope either but at least they are trying

[sunflower99]

Hi Slick .

Thanks for advice about harrasing calls at work!i hope Muffintop does not mind me putting my post up as i was just commenting about my war with Barclaycard to her and not intending a major hijack of her thread! I did not think she would mind as we both so far have had a friendly arrangement to comment about our progress on each others threads and feel the topics we raise are a help to everyone and i extend the same freedom on my threads for people to ask what they like as well as we are all in this together!:)i have not started a Barclay thread yet as thought i might as well wait till i got a response to my CCA!Thanks for help ! ive added that point about 2.6(a) and 2.6(j) in my telepoone harrasement letter which i have just sorted out!