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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
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      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Surely the judge wouldn't ignore what you say? How rude of him!

 

Seriously, I think it depends on what they are arguing about really.

 

It just goes to show, if your a lawyer and are worried, what chance has Joe Public got?

 

Anyway, if you could post up the issue, I'm sure we will do everything poss to help. Good luck, join the club, LOL

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I havent figured out the scanning in thing yet but in short

 

got hutchinson phone and dongle, didnt work coz no signal, returned them (hutchinson now dispute that) they put defaults on my credit file, one for £30 the other for £35 but THEY put the account as closed. I tried to argue that a) phone contract isnt a credit agreement so default isnt applicable, b) not fit for purpose coz didnt work c) contract ended so is right to share my information d) willing and wanting to talk (they ignored this)

 

I served a stop notice, still said want to talk still ignored

 

I also contacted the CRA who contacted them and the reply was "we dont want the default removed" no addressing of any points, no reasons, just 'dont remove it' which the cra thought was acceptable but I actually dont.

 

lots of contacts like that then I eventually served in county court for breach of the stop order, equipment not fit for purpose so contract breached, inappropriate default and in dispute so ask for it to be removed.

 

They served defence saying contract still running so stop order not applicable

counter claim for £121 for early cancellation of contract (oh yes on the contract I signed I did cross out the share information clause and the shop attendant didnt notice and so accepted it)

 

They've completely ignored the amounts that they've put on the defaults and the fact that they wrote saying account closed and put that on the credit file too.

 

all I want is the defaults removed, hate county court and no the judges dont always treat the litigant in person well, would even pay them if they agreed to remove the default, but paying them and keeping the default is not acceptable to me.

 

My son suggests that if I go to court and lose, the default becomes a judgement and if you pay a judgement within 28 days it doesnt get on your credit file, in which case, what am I fighting for?

this is the only problem I have with credit, I'm almost debt free, my file would otherwise be healthy, I'm lucky, but this case still has the power to bring me down.

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On the 'share info' bit you crossed out, Is it legible on your copy, which I assume wasn't the top copy?

 

I wonder if you could do 1974 CCA request to them. They are legally obliged to comply (if indeed it is a credit agreement). This could hopefully give you the tools to drive a coach and horses through their defence at court.

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On the 'share info' bit you crossed out, Is it legible on your copy, which I assume wasn't the top copy?

 

I wonder if you could do 1974 CCA request to them. They are legally obliged to comply (if indeed it is a credit agreement). This could hopefully give you the tools to drive a coach and horses through their defence at court.

 

its not a credit agreement its a phone service agreement but my understanding is that this means it shouldnt be put as a default coz default is a particular thing under CCA

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I'm more interested in this thing that if I lose the default becomes a judgement and I can pay it to get rid of it - which seems to be a get out of jail free card if its true, does anyone know?

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well then I'll have to fight in court, will start my own thread, dont want to highjack Nottsdave's issue - but if its ok with you guys I'll follow this too coz its exactly the negative attitude of the district judges (actually more commonly deputy judges) that concerns me about going to court.

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As a matter of interest, why do you think the judges have this attitude? If one could work out why, then it would be easier to work out a strategy to get them 'on board'.

 

Is it because they have a mindset of, 'yeah, yeah, heard that one sonny?'

 

I'm afraid it's not a good advert for the system is it?

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As a matter of interest, why do you think the judges have this attitude? If one could work out why, then it would be easier to work out a strategy to get them 'on board'.

 

Is it because they have a mindset of, 'yeah, yeah, heard that one sonny?'

 

I'm afraid it's not a good advert for the system is it?

 

My personal feeling is because he will be public school educated and daddy has lots and paid for him to go through law school - they have no time for council tenants or those from inner cities. If you never went to school where fees had to be paid and wear a pinstrip shirt, you're just an oink, a common peasant, you make his court smell, so must be wrong.

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My personal feeling is because he will be public school educated and daddy has lots and paid for him to go through law school - they have no time for council tenants or those from inner cities. If you never went to school where fees had to be paid and wear a pinstrip shirt, you're just an oink, a common peasant, you make his court smell, so must be wrong.

 

 

Thats actually quite close, but a little simplified, I'm in criminal law but we do see something quite similar there, each court has its resident judges, and in general our cases have the same barristers (we have favourites) so we all know each other, in that respect it is sort of a club and (if we did see many defendants in person) they wouldnt be in that club.

 

Its not a simple class thing, I was a single parent on benefits did my degree at home with the OU paid for with grants from benefits. I didnt go to a private school, I was most definately an oink.

 

however most significantly, and the biggest reason for the attitude is that we do, daily, see people who have looked up bits of the law on the internet - they see microcosoms of the law, they see snapshots and then think that they have a full understanding, when actually they're missing major points which change the picture significantly.

 

So the Judge in his chambers, he already knows the lawyers on the companies side, they are in the club, and the litigant in person is someone who has looked up some microcosom on the internet - added 2+2 and got 12 1/2 so his immediate attitude is "you really should consult a real lawyer you know" and he doesnt bother to even listen.

 

Thats essentially what the problem is, not class, not public school only, but it is a general opinion that joe public is too thick to understand legal argument without using a lawyer and there is in my opinion a prevailing attitude of not listening to joe public as carefully as they listen to joe lawyer.

 

So you do get "you really should consult a lawyer on this" although I think that Judge described earlier is possibly an extreme case, in being quite so brazen about it, my opinion is that the general attitude is endemic.

 

how do we overcome it? I suspect only by dotting every i and crossing every T and making sure proof of our legal arguments is in the court bundle, so when he says credit cards dont need... or whatever, we are, there and then, in a position to say, excuse me sir, but let me refer you to the law.

 

Perversley, County Court ethics are that they are supposed to put us on a level footing with the lawyer, in practice, they dont.

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Hi jeffcapt.

 

Would feel it best opening your own thread with this as you do seem to have some insider info on how the court system is used and you do have a valid topic with regards to your mobile phone contract.

 

Have you actually contacted the company and stated without prejudice you would be willing to make full payment if they removed these defaults? Would be suprised if this option didn't appeal to them.

 

Have found the following link on mobile phones which may be useful

 

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/index/c_mobile_phones.pdf

 

It may be that the default isn't on a contract regulated by the consumer credit act. Like overdrafts some type of contracts are exempt from this legislation.

Good luck

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Hi, sorry to hijack the thread but please can someone pop over to my thread @ http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/214746-court-action-advice-needed.html when they have a spare minute as I need some help with my Court Action. Thanks.

Check out the threads below for updates on the DCA's that I am dealing with.

 

GE Money/CL Finance/Howard Cohen & Co - AND - Aktiv Kapital/Appleton Massey Solicitors - IN COURT

Cabot x 2 for Vanquis & Hitatchi - DEFAULTED ON CCA REQUEST

Lowell for Capital One - CANCELLED DEBT!! Trying to get Default removed now

Moorcroft x 2 for Halifax Loan & Bank Account - RETURNED TO HALIFAX

Wescot for Halifax Bank Account - RETURNED TO HALIFAX

Cap Quest for Argos Card - RETURNED TO ARGOS

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Hi Notts,

 

It looks like I will go in to bat first then as mine is Sept 9th.

 

In some respect I am looking forward to it but am slightly worried about their powers under contempt of court regs. I was once 'held' for contempt in the magistrates court where I was working so I will take a thick book with me and my toothbrush LOL

 

GK

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Hi Gamekeeper,

 

The Judge Beale adjourned my case until Oct, I have since appointed Legal representation .

 

Notts

 

Can I ask who you have appointed? I only ask coz I'm in the same area and may be interested in seeing if they can help me too. Are such questions allowed in this forum?

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Can I ask who you have appointed? I only ask coz I'm in the same area and may be interested in seeing if they can help me too. Are such questions allowed in this forum?

You would be best doing this through pm as this could be cla

ssed as advertizing which is against forum rules.

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