Fingerprinting Children in School....?

[NYM]

Hi,

 

Not sure if anyone can advise me but, my g/children have to provide their thumb-prints when taking library books from school each week.

 

It's all done just as it would be in a police station. Little electronic pad and logged on the computer system.

 

Their parents haven't been told about this and I like to know if it is general practice now in schools.

 

I don't want to approach the school first without finding out as much as I can about the legalities of it.

 

I've already had to ask the school about some of the h/work that has been set regarding 'surveys' the children are supposed to carry out. Example: Where their parents work, how they get to work, what hours they work and the list goes on....

 

Is anyone able to give me some advice ?

[Bookworm]

BBC NEWS | UK | School fingerprinting guide due The article is from January 2007.

 

I would suggest talking to the ICO about it and finding out what is their thinking on it.

[NYM]

Thanks for that link...I'm still reading it but it seems that it's 'acceptable' providing the school notify the parents ! I know my daughter hasn't been asked to sign any consent form.

 

Once a month the children bring home the school news-paper about upcoming events and the like and I bet that somewhere in among the several pages of it, there will be a note to tell the parents about the fingerprint implementation along with the dates of the next school disco, hot-dog lunch and PE kit requirements !

 

My other concern was the kind of homework the boys are receiving. It's mainly collecting data about the parents and g/parents. ie. where they work, how they get to work, what hours they work, what type of car(s) do they drive, where do they shop etc....it all seems so 'Big Brother-ish'

 

It seems petty, but I'm getting irritated by the amount of information that they seems to be collecting and I want to know what they do with these homework 'surveys'

[robin9342]

My son's school have just started thumbprinting for school dinners. I don't remember any consultation or permission being sought.

[NYM]

My son's school have just started thumbprinting for school dinners. I don't remember any consultation or permission being sought.

 

 

 

I could just about appreciate why they feel the need to identify which child has which book from the school library, but I can't think of any reason to justify finger-printing a child for school dinners.

[robin9342]

As I understand it, some of the reasons given are that there is now no distinction between those who receive free school meals and those who dont, unused money can be carried forward to the next day and parents can specify what type of food the children can have. Apparently, you can even get a weekly printout of what your child has had to eat!

 

Teachers wishing to eat at the school also have to be fingerprinted for the new system.

[Bigmac versus]

Well I wouldnt like my sons to bring homework asking these sort of questions, its none of their business.

 

Regarding the fingerprinting it does seem to be a good way to work as kids always lose tickets/vouchers etc so this should be easy for them. The question is how is this data stored and where?

[Lula]

has the school in question been asked why they require this information?

[NYM]

has the school in question been asked why they require this information?

 

 

 

This afternoon I asked one of the other mums (she helps out in the school library) she said that the school have been doing it for about 12 months. It is connected to the schools main computer system but isn't aware of what happens to the childrens fingerprints when they leave that particular school. From reading the link earlier in this thread, apparently, the data should be deleted from the system when they leave the school.

 

My husband doesn't think there is anything sinister about it and has told me that I'm just being paranoid, maybe I am but I'm annoyed that the parents haven't been consulted.

 

I'm sure that at 6 and 7 years old the children could be entrusted to have swipe-cards or something similar that could be held by the class teacher and used to take out a book from the library !

 

I think I'll have a word with a few of the other mums before I approach the school. I may just have missed the announcement (if there was one) in the monthly news letter...although I doubt it.

[Lula]

Sorry, i meant in the other matter, my son, who is 5 uses this system in the school library and fwiw, i dont see anything at all sinister in it, it saves on the masses of lost library cards , although there will be those who insist that it is a back door method of obtaining everybodies fingerprints onto some sort of central criminal database.

[NYM]

I got this from the ICO website.

 

...........There is nothing explicit in the Act to require schools to seek consent from all

parents before implementing a fingerprinting application. However, unless

schools can be certain that all children understand the implications of giving their

fingerprints, they must fully involve parents in order to ensure that the information

is obtained fairly. Parents play a central role in their children’s education, in terms

of support and guidance, and also in terms of legal liability, for example in case of

truancy. They therefore rightly expect to be informed and consulted when

biometric systems are introduced in their child’s school. Suspicions are only likely

to be increased when new and possibly controversial technology is introduced

without a comprehensive effort to address people’s fears and concerns.

Schools should explain the reasons for introducing the system, and how personal

data is used and kept safe. In view of the sensitivity of the issue and the

importance of parents’ role in education it would also be a heavy-handed

approach for schools not to respect the wishes of those pupils and parents who

object to school fingerprinting initiatives. This is especially pertinent given the

flexibility of systems such as Junior Librarian, where a card can work just as well

as a fingerprint, so that those who wish to “opt out” can be given another means

of accessing the same services. .............

[patdavies]

You should be aware that although the fingerprint data may well be held securely by the school in its servers, the DPA does allow exemptions for reasons of law enforcement to allow access to this data.

 

That said, I believe that the fingerprint data held is not sufficiently accurate for Police use.

[NYM]

To be honest, I'm not really that concerned about the fingerprinting, it's more to do with the fact that the parents haven't been consulted.

 

 

I'm the kind of person that doesn't get annoyed about CCTV cameras recording my every move when I go shopping, nor getting a ticket for parking where I shouldn't... I like to take responsibility for my own behaviour.

 

What I do object to is the over riding rights of schools and other institutions to introduce something without consultation.

[Zamzara]

I don't think there's anything particularly sinister about this either.

 

However, there is a general principle that such data can only be held with the owner's permission. This, by definition, means the person can refuse permission, and should they do so, this does not give the authorities the right to deny them access to services.

[Chris1933]

Hi NYM,

I work in electronic security and bio-metric readers are becoming more cost effective (Approx £200 for a good one). I imagine that they were implimented with the thought that kids are likely to lose prox tags or swipe cards.

 

It wouldn't hold any more information than any system that they could have put in place, it's merely a more efficient input device. I suspect that it has set alarm bells off with you purly on the basis "fingerprint" has been mentioned.

 

With total respect and only in my own opinion, i wouldn't expect the school to notify parents of the inplimentation of a swipe card system so why would they with the bio-metric.

 

As for the other "research/homework" you mentioned, i'd tell them to mind there own bloody buisiness:)

 

Just my 2p, and im not being argumentative - just giving another opinion from someone who deals with the stuff.

[Chris1933]

Forgot to mention. . .

 

Before someone mentions that swipe cards don't hold fingerprint data, neither do the biometric.

 

They "map" your fingerprint and it remebers distinctive charateristics and points. It's not a scan of the fingerprint

[Bookworm]

Sorry, i meant in the other matter, my son, who is 5 uses this system in the school library and fwiw, i dont see anything at all sinister in it, it saves on the masses of lost library cards , although there will be those who insist that it is a back door method of obtaining everybodies fingerprints onto some sort of central criminal database.

Yeah, especially as everyone knows your average petty criminal spends all his spare time in libraries.

[dandoogle]

Yeah, especially as everyone knows your average petty criminal spends all his spare time in libraries.

 

And they are usually between 5 and 6 years of age.

 

although saying that i am not entirely comfortable with schools holding bio metric information on my children but that si probably purely due to my ignorance of how the whole thing works and how the info is stored and utilised.

 

I would like the chance to decline on my childs behalf if it were to be introduced.

 

I think children need to learn a sense of responsibility and taking care of something as simple as a library card is good practice for them.

 

Not sure what the point of the school asking questions related to parents jobs and cars etc..... What will it really gain them, i would have sent it back blank.

 

I was also curious about the area the school was in?

 

Dan

[pompeyfaith]

Maybe a couple of years down the line this will be something else scraped like the sats tests and many DNA samples held by the police.

 

Pompeyfaith