I think 1st credit have got me!!!

[bluetack]

Hello everyone, I am desperate for some advice please.

 

Back in 2005 my husband was made bankrupt.

We had a joint bank account with lloyds tsb which was closed by them in april 2005, amount owing on the overdraft facility approx £2,400.

 

We were badly flooded in July 2007 and lost a very large filing cabinet full of all our documents, so we have no records of anything before this date.

 

In Sept 2007 I received a DCA from 1st credit in my name only, saying they had bought the tsb debt in july 2006 and wanted me to pay up.

 

I wrote the standard letter asking for copies of all paperwork relating to the alleged debt. Nothing arrived and when it eventually went to court I was granted a stay.

They have managed to get the stay lifted and have sent me 1 year's statements of the bank account.

 

I have to go to court on 3rd dec and have no idea how I am going to fight or pay this. I am registered disabled and cannot work. Any advice would be appreciated!

[Josie8]

Hello everyone, I am desperate for some advice please.

 

Back in 2005 my husband was made bankrupt.

We had a joint bank account with lloyds tsb which was closed by them in april 2005, amount owing on the overdraft facility approx £2,400.

 

We were badly flooded in July 2007 and lost a very large filing cabinet full of all our documents, so we have no records of anything before this date.

 

In Sept 2007 I received a DCA from 1st credit in my name only, saying they had bought the tsb debt in july 2006 and wanted me to pay up.

 

I wrote the standard letter asking for copies of all paperwork relating to the alleged debt. Nothing arrived and when it eventually went to court I was granted a stay.

They have managed to get the stay lifted and have sent me 1 year's statements of the bank account.

 

I have to go to court on 3rd dec and have no idea how I am going to fight or pay this. I am registered disabled and cannot work. Any advice would be appreciated!

 

 

Make applicartion for disclosure of all statements since account opened within 14 days in order to determine how much is default charges and ask for the hearing to be vacated until they comply

[rory32]

For what reason was the stay originally granted?

 

We had a joint bank account with lloyds tsb which was closed by them in april 2005, amount owing on the overdraft facility approx £2,400.

 

Do you have any idea how much of this amount was made up of charges?

 

They have managed to get the stay lifted and have sent me 1 year's statements of the bank account.

 

Personally I would be looking for the last 6 years worth. They would appear to be trying to pull a fast one by giving you a little bit of information but not enough to be useful.

 

Did you initially enter a defence?

 

Could you please tell us the Particulars of Claim and any defence that you have entered?

[bluetack]

Thank you Josie, do I send a copy of the letter to 1st credit to the court??

[42man]

It is very likely that a substantial amount of this is made up of excessive penalty charges.....I presume you have received a court claim form ? have you said you are going to defend ?....I do remember your excellent win against CL Finance too....with the statements in the opposing solicitors name !!

[blipvert]

eh, hang on a minute,was the official receiver made aware of this joint account. Devils advocate here, I don't know the answer but I feel those who will may need some more information well over and above what you have provided.

[bluetack]

The stay was granted because they failed to provide any statements.

 

I can see a lot of charges on the 1 year bundle of statements.

 

I have not entered a defence.

 

Also I think we were paying PPI but the bank refused to pay out because my husband didn't sign on as unemployed.

[bluetack]

Thankyou 42man, I have lost my will to fight anything since the floods.

 

Yes the receiver in bankruptcy knew of this account as we tried to include it but as we all know, joint accounts pass to the person who is not bankrupt.

[rory32]

eh, hang on a minute,was the official receiver made aware of this joint account. Devils advocate here, I don't know the answer but I feel those who will may need some more information well over and above what you have provided.

A joint account has joint and several liability.

 

Bluetac what is the hearing on the 3rd of December about? I am not clear on this as you say you have not entered a defence.

[bluetack]

I only received the paperwork this week Rory and haven't entered a defence because I don't know how to defend it.

It is clear we had the bank account and were overdrawn by the amount claimed so I am not sure if I really have a defence. The only way I can see is to get the debt reduced by the amount of the obscene charges levied.

[rory32]

What does the paperwork state?

 

You may or may not know that the test case on bank charges is far from over and currently claims are all being stayed for bank charges. What this also means is that a judge couldn't rule on your case if you raise the issue of bank charges and would have no alternative but to currently stay the claim against you.

 

The only way I can see is to get the debt reduced by the amount of the obscene charges levied.

Once you add contractual interest they may end up owing you money.

[bluetack]

Rory, 1st credit mamaged to get the stay lifted because they claim to have sent me statements of the account in September. The only statements I have received from them arrived yesterday.

They claim there is no credit agreement because it was an overdraft facility. In the 1 year statements I have calculated £784.00 bank charges. As we had the bank account for 15 years the charges would amount to quite a large amount.

[blind-as-a-bat]

I dont know if this info will help at all but i went bankrupt at the begining if 07, and had a joint account with my OH which was as near as dam it £300 OD. It was an agreed overdraft, so the only charges we paid up to my BR date where intrest.

 

We knew my OH would be liable for this after my BR, but TSB where very agresive with her about it, you have to remember it was me who went bankrupt, not her.

 

As soon as they found out i was bankrupt they cancelled the agreed overdraft, started adding £30 in unautherised OD charges and at least doubled the intrest, together with other charges i never got an explanation for, all without informing my OH, or responding to any letters asking what would happen over this liabilaty my OH had been left with.

 

Now i played mery hell with the TSB over this, yes i had gone bankrupt but my OH had not, so was being penalised for me going bankrupt, a point they could not defend, they wiped all charges of the account and arranged a payment plan to clear it.

 

The point is if your OH went bankrupt in 05, and they did the same, thats a lot of charges you may have, so you really need to go back as far as then at least so one years statemants is not enough to prove the amount of there claim is correct

[bluetack]

Hi everyone,

I am in court tomorrow with 1st credit.

Does anyone know if the CCA 1974 section 78 (4)(a) applies to bank account overdrafts please?

[LilyLou]

bump

[42man]

Bluey these might help you....

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/145092-bank-account-cca.html

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/31515-ccas-overdrafts.html

 

In the last thread you will see this...

 

Overdrafts come under section 10 of the Consumer Credit Act.

 

10.—(1) For the purposes of this Act—

(a) running-account credit is a facility under a personal credit agreement whereby the debtor is enabled to receive from time to time (whether in his own person, or by another person) from the creditor or a third party cash, goods and services (or any of them) to an amount or value such that, taking into account payments made by or to the credit of the debtor, the credit limit (if any) is not at any time exceeded; and

(b) fixed-sum credit is any other facility under a personal credit agreement whereby the debtor is enabled to receive credit (whether in one amount or by

instalments).

(2) In relation to running-account credit, " credit limit" means, as respects any period, the maximum debit balance which, under the credit agreement, is allowed to stand on the account during that period, disregarding any term of the agreement allowing that maximum to be exceeded merely temporarily.

(3) For the purposes of section 8(2), running-account credit shall be taken not to exceed the amount specified in that subsection (" the specified amount") if—

(a) the credit limit does not exceed the specified amount; or

(b) whether or not there is a credit limit, and if there is, notwithstanding that it

exceeds the specified amount,—

(i) the debtor is not enabled to draw at any one time an amount which, so far as

(having regard to section 9(4)) it represents credit, exceeds the specified

amount, or

(ii) the agreement provides that, if the debit balance rises above a given

amount (not exceeding the specified amount), the rate of the total charge for credit increases or any other condition favouring the creditor or his associate comes into operation, or

(iii) at the time the agreement is made it is probable, having regard to the

terms of the agreement and any other relevant considerations, that the debit balance will not at any time rise above the specified amount.

[Robot_roo]

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[bluetack]

Hi everyone,

Just thought I'd let you know I won my court case today (by the skin of my teeth)!!

 

I will explain in more detail about this case, I know I have been a bit vague but I had no paperwork because we were flooded.

 

We had a joint bank account with Lloyds tsb with a £3,000 overdraft.

My hubby was made bankrupt in feb 2005.

This debt was included in the bankrubtcy but as it was a joint account the whole debt was transferred to me.

The £3,000 debt was bought by 1st credit in 2006.

They tried to enter a judgement against me in 2007, I had this set aside because they failed to supply statements of the account.

In September 2008 they had the stay lifted and judgement was granted against me because they produced 1 years statements proving I owed the money.

I applied again to have the judgement set aside but could not give a defence as no-one had sent me the relevant statements.

Ten days ago I received the statements, too late to submit a defence.

 

I appeared in court today together with the solicitor from 'the other side'.

The judge asked for my defence and I explained:

1)Insufficient statements to prove how the debt was accrued/answer-not relevant.

2)CCA states that statements must be produced not less than one year apart for running accounts/answer-CCA not relevant in this case because the debt has been proved and deed of assignment valid.

 

My last shot (believe me I was sh****** a brick by now) was that when the account was closed by lloyds in April 2005 the balance reverted to zero. How could 1st credit purchase a debt one year later in 2006 with a zero balance??

The judge looked at the last statement, smiled at me and said 'you have found your defence, well done'.

I now have 28 days to submit my defence in writing, the judgement will then be set aside.

Meanwhile (much to the defendant's solicitors's obvious shock) 1st credit have to provide all statements of the account-15 years worth or proof of how the debt accumilated including all charges, within twelve days.

Impossible I think.

Thank you everyone for your help and support, I will donate when I recover financially from this mess.

[Kaiser99]

Good on you Bluetack!!

 

I'll bet, judging by the £700+ of charges on the last year of statements that they end up owing you money, once that pesky stay has been removed on the bank charges test case.

 

Go get em!!

[darryl1960]

well done bluetack, one in the teeth for 1st credit

[jadzia.dax1]

Well done...really pleased for you :D

[cymruambyth]

Excellent result against 1stC and very interesting defence. It could be worth other people who have had their o/ds sold to DCAs getting a SAR and checking dates and amounts.

[rory32]

Well done

[42man]

Superb news Bluetack....i'm surprised you didn't photoshop some statements with 1st Credit's name on them !!

[blipvert]

Nice one Bluetack. I think you should report them for this.

Edited December 3, 2008 by blipvert
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