Attendance notice the clearance of goods

[Mr Happy]

I had a bailiff pay me a visit today, I didn't answer and he left a note and left.

 

I have enclosed a copy of the letter but he is threatening to return in 48 hours with the police.

 

This is a bailiffs second visit neither time I have answered, in fact the first time he just posted a letter.

 

My car is on the front drive can he take that, I use it for my business, my business is struggling as it is and that would finish it off.

 

Any and all advice appreciated I have read all the other posts but there is so much information I am not sure what is appropriate for my situation.

 

 

It looks a bit small to me if it doesn't come out correct for you I will try again.

[Guest BURP]

Your JPG isnt very clear and I cant make out much from it. Bailiffs can take a car but not a mobility car a plated taxi, vehicles subject to Hire Purchase and utility vehicles used in the course of earning a living. Your post doesnt tell me much about the debt so I've assumed council tax for now. Phone Ministry of Justice Public Register of Bailiffs on 020 3334 6355 and check your bailiff is certificated. Meanwhile this letter wil quickly clear up any fee irregularities.

 

The Omnipotent Bailiff Co, Plc

Their Address 1

Their Address 2

Their Address 3

Postcode

 

DATE

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re: [YOUR NAME + REF]: Fee irregularities. Opportunity to compensate

 

I write following visits by your bailiff however there appears to be irregularities with your fees. I ask you to provide the following within fourteen (14) days:

 

1) The name of the certificating court and certificate number for the bailiff in charge

 

2) Written confirmation of a) your fees, and b) the original debt

 

3) Truthfully confirm in writing your fees are lawful and comply with regulations prescribing bailiffs fees

 

4) The name and address of the person or body you act for

 

If you cannot complete the above, please unconditionally pay me within fourteen (14) days a refund of all unlawful fees and unconditionally pay me compensation of £4999.00 for failure to comply with the law prescribing your fees and I will consider this aspect of the matter closed.

 

If I later find an irregularity with your fees within the statutory time limit of 6 years as prescribed under Section 2 of the Limitation Act 1980, I will enter no further correspondence with you and automatically file a Form 4 at court for dishonestly defrauding me with your fees. This may also involve a criminal investigation by police and your bailiff and firm's director(s) may receive a criminal record for assisting an offender, benefiting from proceeds of crime and committing offences under the Fraud Act 2006.

 

This document is delivered by Royal Mail and I deem it good service upon you by the ordinary course of post under Section 7 of the Interpretation Act 1978. It is your responsibility and in your best interests this letter is handed to the relevant person within your organisation.

 

Yours Sincerely

 

YOUR NAME

 

Make your car safe or park it well away and keep this letter handy incase a bailiff turns up. Hand it through a window or through a letterbox. Never open the door to a bailiff.

 

[DATE]

 

BY HAND

 

Dear Bailiffs.

 

Re: Your Reference

 

[NAME OF] Council appears to have instructed you to collect unpaid council tax.

 

This notice directs that you are not being given entry to my home or to levy goods contained within and your entitlement to charge a Walking Possessions fee stands revoked. Please be advised that if your fees are found to contradict Regulation 14(2) or Regulation 45(2) of the Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992 and you may be liable for criminal prosecution under the Fraud Act 2006. Without corresponding with you further I will also automatically file a Form 4 at court.

 

Due to my circumstances I am unable to pay the debt in whole and will make payment of £[AMOUNT] each month for [NUMBER OF] monthly instalments direct to the council.

 

These are the only payments I can afford and allows me to pay future council tax liabilities without falling into arrears. Please be advised it is not a "criminal offence" for me to deny a bailiff entry to my property and it is an offence to threaten me with breaking and entering with "locksmiths".

 

Please provide me with a breakdown of your fees, put it through the letterbox and quietly leave the property.

 

Yours Faithfully

 

YOUR NAME

 

Write to the council and have them take the case back into council administration.

 

Council Tax (Enforcements) Department

Invincible Borough Council

Address 1

Address 2

Address 3

Postcode

 

[DATE]

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re: [YOUR NAME & ANY REF]: Visit by your bailiff on [DATE]

 

I have had an opportunity to seek advice and I write on the understanding that case law has ruled an authority is liable for its bailiffs.

 

On [DATE] I was visited by your bailiff collecting unpaid council tax. The bailiff tried charging for visits he did not make and I understand commits an offence under Section 2 of the Fraud Act 2006. He also thratened to bring 'police' pretending he was entitled to commit breaking and entering. We were unable to reach an amicable resolve and the bailiff showed threatening behaviour and became defensive and vexatious in nature. He made unrealistic demands of money which are way beyond my means.

 

I now ask the Council to:

 

a) Take the case back from the bailiff.

b) Accept my original offer to pay £[AMOUNT] a week to clear the arrears

c) Pay me a reasonable compensation for my inconvenience and for my efforts in seeking discovery of information and

d) Receiving an over-zealous bailiff acting for you making unrealistic demands of money and defrauding me with his fees.

 

If you fail to satisfactorily complete the above I will automatically escalate the complaint to the local government ombudsman in fourteen days from the date of this letter. Please treat this letter as Stage 1.

 

Due to my circumstances I am unable to pay the debt as demanded by the bailiffs and I will make payment of £[AMOUNT] each month for [NUMBER OF] monthly installments with a final installment of £[AMOUNT]. This may seem a long time but it's all I can afford and allows me to pay future liabilities without falling into arrears. I confirm I am not refusing to pay this debt.

 

This letter is delivered by Royal Mail and I deem it to be served on you by the ordinary course of post in the meaning of Section 7 of the Interpretation Act 1978. It is your responsibility and in your own interests this letter is handed to the relevant person within your organisation.

 

Yours Sincerely

 

[NAME]

Enc 1st payment.

[Mr Happy]

I have prepared the personal "hand to" letter for the bailiff, the above letters would be lies and I am reluctant to lie to anyone, is it just a way to get some clarification on the fees.

 

I would obviously need to remove the threats bit (apart from Police) considering I never opened the door.

[Guest BURP]

You can tweak the letters as needed.

[Mr Happy]

I have sent the letter above to the bailiffs and they sent this recently.

 

 

TAKE FORMAL NOTICE

 

Removal of your goods

 

In relation to Council Tax Debt due to South Gloucestershire Concil

 

The above debt remains outstanding despite my previous applications for payment.

I am now left with no alternative but to call at your home, without further notice , to seize such goods as may, in my opinion, be sufficientto satisfy your debt when sold at public auction.

 

Whilst the law allows me to remove goods in your absence, I would [prefer that you were present so that we can agree the inventory of items removed.

 

If, even at this late stage, you would prefer to make the removal and sale of your goods unnecessary by discharging the debt, please contact me on 08456 585030. Short term arrangements to pay by weekly or monthly instalments may still be available if you contact me immediately.

 

Yours Sincerely

 

 

Mr Ryan

Certificated Bailiff

 

 

Its funny the "I have no alternative"

 

Then later, If, "even at this late stage"

 

 

Opinions please

[Mr Happy]

Just received another

 

REMOVAL NOTICE

Council Tax Due to South Gloucestershire Council

 

As I have received no satisfactory response to my earlier communications, I am left with no alternative but to call at your premises, to seize your goods for sale at Public Auction. This process will involve you in very considerable further costs, which will be deducted from the proceeds of the sale.

 

If you wish. even at this late stage, to avoid your goods being removed, I would ask you to contact my officeon the above telephone number to make arrangements for payments of the debt.

 

If I do not recieve satisfactory response from you, I will call at your premeisis, accompanied by House Clearance Contractors on or before Friday, November 28, 2008. I will have to remove goods whether you are present or not, with the police in attendance if necessasaryIf you wish to be present during the removal, If you prefer my team to call during morning, afternoon or evening.

 

I look forward to hearing from you with the greatest urgency.

 

Yours faithfully

 

A N Arsol

Any comments, reassurance gratefully recieved.

 

 

 

 

[scatz1972]

Hi I am by no means an expert on this, but I know that he cant force his way into your home if you have never let him in before....he is just trying to scare you. Eventually the bailiff will return the council tax bill to the council if they cannot gain entry to your home or contact you.

 

Remember to MOVE your car AWAY from your home, last thing you want is for him to levy on that. Keep all windows and doors locked.

[Mr Happy]

Thank scatz

 

Does anyone know if I leave my car on a neighbours land can they enter their land and clamp or levy or whatever they do or should it physically be well out of sight.

 

My car has a large company sticker on the back window and a personalised plate with the company name,

My business is in bad state and I will be closing it when I have paid my company debts.

 

I am returning to my old career as a field service engineer and that involves using my car to go to many customer sites, if I lose my car the chance of me paying my debts would just disappear, I have a contract for 6 months in the pipeline and my car is insured for trips in connection with my business.

[tomtubby]

It is now commonplace for bailifs to clamp your car. I would seriously suggest that you park it away from your home.

 

The bailiff company are missing a crucial point and they know it.

 

They can come to your home with a removals team to remove goods. HOWEVER, they can ONLY remove goods that they have already SEIZED and listed on a WALKING POSSESSION.

 

If they have never gained entry or levied upon gods (ie: car outside then this letter is intended to make you address the matter...or pay.

[scatz1972]

Although the bailiff shouldnt levy on your vehicle as its a tool of your trade, I really wouldnt risk it, it will just complicate things further.....as TT said MOVE your car AWAY from your home.

[Mr Happy]

I have just recieved a letter from Rundle al Co Ltd

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

BALANCE REMINDER

 

Council Tax Debt due to South Gloucestershire Council

 

This letter is toi confirm you current balance outstanding with Rundle & Company Ltd in relation to our reference XXXXXXX is £855.90.

 

If you disagree with this amount, please telephone us as soon as possible on

 

08456 585030

 

 

If you are making payments direct to the baliff, please ensure you obtain an official numbered receipt.

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

A Squiggle

 

Rundle and Co Ltd

I assume this is in reply to fee irregularities letter I sent but it doesn't cover any of the information requested.

 

Any suggestions how to continue?

 

How long will it take before it goes back to the council?

Edited December 1, 2008 by Pi-stoff
Corrected typo

[scatz1972]

Dont phone them, they will only bully you.

 

Have you asked the council how much the liability order was for?

 

I dont think there is a specific timescale for them to send the bill back, but they only get paid for 2 visits, so I wouldnt imagine that they would want to visit many more times than that. Be ready for the debt being returned to the council, you need to make the council aware that you want to pay your council tax but that you are experiencing financial problems, you will need to offer them a payment schedule. Do everything in writing and send recorded, that way you have a paper trail.

 

As I said im not an expert. You could always trying calling national debtline to see if there is anymore advice that they could offer. Its 0808 808 4000.

Edited December 1, 2008 by scatz1972

[Mr Happy]

The liability order was under £800 I will sort through my paperwork and find out for sure.

 

The problem I have is the debt is last years debt, I have been assessed and have a reduction in this years council tax but when I was assessed they took into consideration that my company made a profit of £700, this money I wanted to invest in the company to buy stock and pay its debts, some £5000, £4000 of that to the VAT man.

 

If I took the money out and used it to pay the council tax I would be in severe problems if the company was made bankrupt, this would have happened because I would have had no working capital to buy stock, because the money belongs to the company taking it would have forced its bankruptcy and I would be liable to prosecution being the director.

 

The council tax benefit officer didn't know anything about limited companies, it makes me wonder how they can decide my financial situation.

[Mr Happy]

Had a visit from the Bailiff today, knocked twice and waited 15 seconds left a letter and went away, then i got another letter in the post from Rundle and Co with very similar information as the bailiffs letter, the same letter that I have had loads of so far with red banners in different places, how did they manage before colour laser printers, I can just imagine them with their red felt pens filling in the boxes.

 

Should I send a letter to the Council asking them that when they get the debt back to liase with ther assesment panel and see if they can reduce my council tax so I can pay my outstanding amount, they have reduced my charge this year but still expect me to pay an extra amount for the arrears, cant the 2 get together and work my arrears payments into my assesment for this year.

 

Not sure if that sentance makes sense ask me if you need clarification.

[scatz1972]

 

Have you wrote to the council yet?

 

It might be an idea to put pen to paper explain your situation. Ask them to take the debt back, explain that you WANT to pay your council tax. Tell them that you are receiving council tax benefit/reduction for this years bill due to your limited finances, so they must be aware of your current difficulties. Include an income and expenditure sheet showing what you can afford to pay, and start regularly paying the council direct.

 

MAKE SURE THAT YOU MAKE THEM AWARE THAT THE EXTRA MONEY YOU ARE PAYING IS FOR LAST YEARS BILL, NOT THIS YEARS. OTHERWISE THEY WILL PAY IT ALL ON THIS YEARS BILL.

 

Alternatively do you have time this afternoon to go down to the council tax dept? sometimes people react so much better when you are face to face with them.

[Mr Happy]

Since my last post I have got a job.

 

I will very shortly be able to pay my outstanding council tax debt, I have received a council tax breakdown letter for the following year that includes the arrears from last year, I thought this would mean it has been handed back to the council but I had another visit from the bailiff on the 12th, They left me a couple of letters one being the standard one saying you pay me or I will break down your door with the Police and ransack your house, the second saying they will seize my car and they listed the number plate of my car (attached), my car was not there when they called but they did see it when they called at Christmas, my car is critical for my job and I will not be able to work if they did take it.

 

First of all can they take it or is the letter like all the others trying to scare me.

 

I would like to pay the outstanding amount to the council, can I use the fact that they have charged illegal fees and the fact that they refused to give me a breakdown of the charges as a reason to ask the council to take it back.

 

Liability Order £705

 

Total fee from bailiff 855.90

 

I have had about 5 visits and lots of standard letters.

 

Can I also use the illegal fees to have their fees totally quashed, secondly could I just confirm it is illegal charges.

seizure.pdf

[chris600uk]

First of all can they take it or is the letter like all the others trying to scare me.

 

 

Yes

[chris600uk]

But not if you had already sold it to a family member (preferably but not necessarily at the same address) before the date of seizure.

 

If that was the case, then they will either have sent or are about to send the V5 off to DVLA - and once the car is re-registered the bailiffs will know it's not your car anymore.

 

In that event, all you would have to do is send the bailiffs a statutory declaration stating that the vehicle ceased to be your property before the date of seizure and therefore the seizure is invalid and so are any fees and charges arising from that seizure.

[chris600uk]

I have had about 5 visits and lots of standard letters.

 

Unless they have made a valid lawful levy - all they can charge is £24.50 for the 1st visit and £18.00 for the second visit - but once the council has been paid they have no way of forcing you to pay it - unless they want to pursue you through the small claims court, which could mean them providing all the evidence to show that they complied with the letter of the law - not easy for bailiffs.

[chris600uk]

My car has a large company sticker on the back window and a personalised plate with the company name

 

Would that be by any chance a Ltd company?

 

And before you sold it, if you sold it, was the car by any chance be the property of the company?

[Mr Happy]

Yes

is that an answer to my first or second question

 

 

Would that be by any chance a Ltd company?

 

And before you sold it, if you sold it, was the car by any chance be the property of the company?

 

It wasnt registered to the Limited company but the limited company is in a poor state so I prefer it not to be.

[chris600uk]

is that an answer to my first or second question.

 

Both

[Mr Happy]

OK thanks

 

so they have a right to take my car and trying to scare me.

 

Is the paperwork they gave a legal document that entitles them to my car and the only way to keep it is to sell it before it was issued.

 

Is there anything I can do about the illegal fees, does this have any bearing on their rights, can I challenge them about it.

[chris600uk]

Is the paperwork they gave a legal document that entitles them to my car and the only way to keep it is to sell it before it was issued.

 

Which I'm sure you did, yes unless you can prove you sold it to your mum, uncle phineas, or the next door neighbour and can show proof that you sold it.

Yep it's now their car.

 

Of course if your Uncle Phineas gave you £1 for it, I'm sure the deaf old git will sell it back to you, or maybe even put you on the insurance and lend it to you - seeing as he got his licence from the post office.

 

Yes you can challenge illegal fees, although it's better not to have paid them in the first place.

[Mr Happy]

Just as an update, I sold the car to my mother in law, I then got a job and had a company car, at 1 stage I had 3 cars on the drive because I was having hire cars changed regularly about 45K worth of cars at 1 stage, the bailiff came and had a great time looking at my cars kicking the tyres, muttering and writing things down.

 

As soon as I could I paid off the outstanding balance to the council and the bailiffs still kept coming, just for their fees this time £177, still pretending it was council tax.

 

They kept coming leaving the standard letter that I have so many of I have half a rain forest in my filing cabinet.

 

Got a letter the other day saying they will be handing it back to the council and they will do all sorts of nasty things to me.

 

I am surprised they still try despite the fact they know I have paid the council off and it is their fees they are chasing.

 

I am still trying to set up a direct debit with the council, it is difficult because I am not in often in the daytime and I cant set up direct debit if I owe them money, which I do because I cant pay very often in the daytime.

 

I wonder if the bailiffs will still chase me for their fees when they hand the account back to the council all 0p of it.