Barclaycard sent me this!....is it enforcable?

[jendoc]

Barclaycard have sent me these 4 pages after my request for a copy of my credit card agreement.

 

http://i407.photobucket.com/albums/pp154/jendoc1753/img01.jpg

 

http://i407.photobucket.com/albums/pp154/jendoc1753/img02.jpg

 

http://i407.photobucket.com/albums/pp154/jendoc1753/img03.jpg

 

http://i407.photobucket.com/albums/pp154/jendoc1753/img04.jpg

 

They state it is the document I have requested, but I am not so sure because my signature is not on it nor a date!

 

Any advice would be appreciated.

 

Jendoc

[rory32]

This is simply a copy of their terms and conditions. It is not a credit agreement.

[fuzzybobble]

well they sent you some terms and conditions, but they would get laughed out of court if they produced those.

Without a document containing your signature and all the pescribed terms, it's 100% totally unenforceable.

 

Write and explain that until they produce an enforceable CCA, you consider the account to be in dispute.

[foolishgirl]

To quote Barclaycard - 'it just gets better' !!

 

The best garbage that I've seen Barclaycard produce yet as a document purporting to be a CCA. It's merely T&Cs & if this is all they sent you, IMO they wouldn't even get it past the worst of our DJs even if he/she is completely blind to consumer issues.

Edited November 2, 2008 by foolishgirl
typo

[jendoc]

Should I now demand the proper documentation as per my initial request?

[jendoc]

YES! YES!....Thanks so much they can now say bye bye to that 1200 quid! If the cannot enforce thier agreement.

Edited November 2, 2008 by jendoc

[rory32]

Send them the following

Dear Sirs,

 

Account Number: XXX

 

Re; your recent reply to my request under section 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

I note that you have replied to the above by sending a copy of your companies current Terms and conditions I must inform you that this is not sufficient to comply with the request and that your company is still in default under the act.

 

To clarify, just sending the Terms and Conditions is a breach of the Act and Regulations as, apart from the information that the Regulations provide that you may exclude, the copy must be a “true copy” of the agreement.

 

This breach of the agreement can be demonstrated as follows;

 

As you will know section 180(1) (b) authorises, “the omission from a copy of certain material from the original, or the inclusion of certain material in condensed form.” This refers to statutory instruments made under the heading Copies of document regulations and in this care in particular to SI 1983/1557.

 

Before leaving section 180 there are two other sections that should be remembered these are:

 

Section 2(2) (a) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not satisfied unless the copy supplied is in the prescribed form and conforms to the prescribed requirements;

 

And more importantly

 

Section 2(b) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not infringed by the omission of any material, or its inclusion in condensed form, if that is authorised by regulations.

 

You will see that this quite clearly states that whilst certain items may be left out of the copy document the rest of the document must be in the form and contain all items as prescribed by the regulations.

 

Turning to the regulations regarding what may be omitted from these copies these are contained with SI 1983/1557.

 

The regulations state:

(2) There may be omitted from any such copy-

(a) any information included in an executed agreement, security instrument or other document relating to the debtor, hirer or surety or included for the use of the creditor or owner only which is not required to be included therein by the Act or any Regulations thereunder as to the form and content of the document of which it is a copy;

(b) any signature box, signature or date of signature (other than, in the case of a copy of a cancelable executed agreement delivered to the debtor under section 63(1) of the Act, the date of signature by the debtor of an agreement to which section 68(b) of the Act applies);

 

It is quite clear what can be omitted from the copy document, this again asserts that all other details of the agreement should presented in form and content as required by the regulations.

 

The requirements of the Agreement regulations 1983/1553 are very explicit in describing the form and content of an agreement and this as I have demonstrated also applies to the copy of any such agreement with the above mentioned proviso.

 

Nowhere within these regulations does it state that part of the agreement can be presented on a separate document headed terms and conditions.

It does state that all terms and conditions should be within the agreement document and is explicit of the form in which it is presented.

 

I hope this explains why your reply was unacceptable I await a True copy of my agreement and would remind you again that whilst the request has not been complied with the default continues

 

Yours faithfully

Edited November 2, 2008 by rory32

[fuzzybobble]

I had dealings with Barclaycard just over a year ago. The way it's likely to go is as follows....

 

They'll add on a ton of charges and interest. Then pass it to Mercers, their in house DCA.

After that it will probably go to either Westcot or Moorcroft.

 

After that it usually goes quiet for ages, until Barclaycard write off the debt against tax, then sell the debt for 10% of it's total value to one of the bottom feeder type DCA's who "specialise" in trying to collect unenforceable debts.

 

Unlikely any of them will try to take you to court as soon as they get a sniff that there's no CCA for the account. But if one of them does try, you'd have no problems winning in court.

Then you have the added bonus of hitting them for £250 costs for wasting your time.

[jendoc]

Thank you so much for your advice it is very much appreciated!!

 

Jendoc:)

[foolishgirl]

Fuzzybobble's right! Same experience here.

 

However before you go down the route of non-enforceability, work out how much they may owe you in unlawful charges - it might work out equal to or more than the £1200 owing on your card, in which case you may wish to ignore the CCA issue & consider reclaiming the charges instead. That way you gain money, you don't get defaulted & you might also retain the credit card depending on what stage you're at with OC/DCAs etc.

[jendoc]

Hi...Thanks for that 'foolishgirl' its certainly worth thinking about!...How would initiate that request?

 

I have been paying the monthly minimum amount on this card for the past 5 years! They must of had back more than the 1200 quid I had from them!

 

Jendoc

[foolishgirl]

Do you have all the monthly statements re. this account? If so, you should be able to identify all the unlawful charges eg. late payment, over limit etc. but not interest at this stage. You can then use the appropriate CAG spreadsheet to calculate how much you are owed:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/welcome-consumer-forums/69359-cant-find-what-youre.html

 

If you do not have all the statements, you will need to send a SAR to BC (cost £10.00) requesting all info. they hold on you incl. statements from the date of inception of your BC. Link to template here:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/516-1-data-protection-act.html

 

Do not sign the letter, use digital signature or print (so it can't be cut & pasted to another doc), send PO for fee & mail Rec. Del. They have 40 days in which to supply the info.

 

On one of my cards, the charges came to more than I owed so although there was no enforceable CCA, it was more economical to reclaim the charges. Takes some time but could be worth doing. You have to weigh up which is the better option for you.

[jendoc]

Thanks again foolishgirl! Your help is most appreciated.

 

Jendoc