Please Help - CC Summons Arrow/Copes

[FreddyBoy1957]

Hi – I’m new to the forum and looking for some urgent advice please. Sorry it’s so long-winded, but here goes.

In 2006 I fell into serious financial hardship, and could no longer afford the payments on my un-secured credit (credit cards and personal loans).

I sought help from the CCC who proposed a DMP – this commenced July 2006 and covered 8 credit cards and 2 personal loans (un-secured). The payment proposals were accepted by all parties initially. Since then, a number of the credit card debts have been sold on to DCA’s, and in all but one case the existing payment via CCCS has been accepted by the assignees.

The exception is a Monument credit card I took out in 2004. Monument did accept the DMP proposals, but in August 2007 sold the debt on to Arrow Global LLC. I received a letter in August from Arrow Global LLC advising me of the assignment from Monument and informing me that all rights and balance had been transferred. The CCCS changed the payee for this debt to CBS Transcom who I understand are agents appointed to manage the account on behalf of Arrow Global LLC.

I had a couple of letters in August/September 2007 from CBS Transcom The letters demanded an increase in the payment they were getting from my DMP. I telephoned their office and they informed me that I was required to settle the account in 2 years. I explained my situation to them and asked them to contact CCCS.

In November 2007 I received a letter from Copes Solicitors, St Albans - this was a Formal Notice of Intent to issue Legal Proceedings on behalf of Arrow Global LLC. I telephoned Copes and explained my situation, they asked me to get CCCS to send them a copy of my up to date financial statement which was done.

In February 2008 I received a letter from CBS Transcom stating that as I had not settled the debt in full, or agreed payments to clear the debt in 2 years, their client Arrow Global LLC would ‘take steps to secure its interest, which may include legal proceedings’.

I telephoned CBS Transcom and was told that the letter had been sent out in error. They did, however, request an updated financial statement to be provided by CCCS – this was done.

Between February 2008 and October 2008 CBS Transcom telephoned me once a month. Well, actually it was a voice message saying that it was ‘and urgent personal message’ for me and asking me to telephone their office. On the first 2 occasions I returned the call and was asked if could increase the monthly payment to which I replied that I could not. The third time I asked them why they kept telephoning me every month when they knew my circumstances – they replied that it was their policy and that calls would continue every month.

On 24th September 2008 I had another letter from Copes Solicitors - this was dated 22 September 2008 and was a Formal Notice of Intent to issue Legal Proceedings. It stated that unless full payment (3821.05) was received by them as cleared funds by 16:00 on 25th September 2008 then they would commence legal proceedings. I telephoned Copes on 24th September, re-stated my situation, pointed out that CBS Transcom had been telephoning me regularly since February 2008 and there was certainly no implication from them that they had declined my offer of payment under my DMP. I also asked them how they expected me to provided cleared funds by 16:00 on 25th September 2008, given the fact that they had sent the letter out just 3 days earlier. They asked me to send in another up to date financial statement – this was sent to them by CCCS on 25th September 2008.

On Saturday 25th October 2008 I received another letter from Copes dated 24th October 2008. It stated the following:

We act for the above (Arrow Global LLC) who instruct that you owe £3805.79. You have previously received notice pursuant to the Law of Property Act 1925, that our client obtained the debt by way of assignment under account number ################.

You have failed to make payment as requested and/or you have refused to make payment. Our client is no longer prepared to tolerate your failure to pay the debt and we have been instructed to consider taking legal proceedings against you in the County Court unless you pay the sum of £3805.79 within 10 days from the date of this letter. Our client is confident of obtaining a judgement against you for the sum owed plus court fees and solicitors costs. It is not believed you have a legitimate or any defence.’

 

On Tuesday 28th October 2008 I received a County Court summons from Northampton County Court in respect of this debt – the issue date being 27th October 2008. I telephoned them and asked them how I had been summonsed on 27th October bearing in mind that they sent me a letter dated 24th October 2008 stating that if I had not settled in 10 days then they would consider taking legal proceedings. They told me that the letter had been sent in error and that the important letter was the one they sent on 22nd September.

So I now have until 15th November 2008 either to accept liability and offer payment terms or to contest.

Since getting into financial difficulties, I have never sought to run away from the problem and have not missed a DMP payment since it started in June 2006. All of my other creditors have accepted the terms of my DMP, and although my biggest creditor (Lombard) has obtained a charging order against my property even they have not asked for larger monthly payments. Normally I would not contest this debt – I would just send off the court form admitting everything and making an offer of payment. As I have a charging order I’m not unduly concerned about another CCJ, but am terrified that as Arrow Global LLC seem to use such unorthodox methods they might try to get an Attachment of Earnings order and I’d lose my job if this were the case. But I am extremely irritated with the methods and inconsistency of Arrow/CBS Transcom/Copes and am considering contesting the matter.

I would be extremely grateful for any advice on what my options are, particularly related to the following:

Are Arrow legally entitled to buy a credit card debt and then demand full payment within 2 years?

CBS Transcom telephoned me every month to try to increase my payments – does this imply their acceptance of my DMP?

The first Formal Notice of Intent to issue Legal Proceedings on behalf of Arrow Global LLC issued by Copes in November 2007 was not acted upon. Does this imply acceptance by Arrow/CBS Transcom/Copes of the terms of my DMP and thus render a Notice of Intent issued a year later (24/9/2008) illegal?

The letter I received from Copes dated 24th October 2008 stated I had 10 days to make payment before they would consider instigating legal proceedings. Even if they say that this letter was sent in error I never-the-less received it. Can they then legally have a County Court summons issued within the 10 days (as they have)?

If I contest the matter, does the inconsistent approach/information/action on the part of Arrow/CBS Transcom/Copes weigh in my favour?

If I contest the matter, do I need to request a copy of the Credit Agreement, Deed of Assignment, or both?

I have to respond to the CC summons by 15th November 2008. Thus to send this in on time I may not have the CCA/DOA from Arrow by then. If I contest, and then the CCA/DOA arrive and show that the debt is indeed enforceable, will I then be able to retract my contention, admit liability to the court and offer payment?

If I decide to contest, what should my immediate actions be? I’m anxious to get this right, as I have other as yet un-sold-on credit card debts which may in future be sold-on to Arrow (God forbid).

Very many thanks.

[boyfalldown]

Hi,

 

I'm sure people with much better knowledge will be along to help. But first things first don't worry. Next things next stop phoning them everything in writting from now on.

 

Can you cp[y the paritculars of claim from the county court forms for me?. Remove all personal details first. Its important that you aknowledge this to the court. There should be a form to send back to them to do this and state on it you intend to defend in full. Doing this will give you another fortnight to prepare your defence so until th 29th November.

 

Its gone past CCA'ing them now so when we need to write to them asking for documentation helping you forumalte a defence. We can do this under the civil procedure rules and when you post yiou PoC theres a template on here to modify. If they don't comply with this you can get a court order for them to do so.

 

A couple more things, Northhampton is the County Court Bulk Centre, when you defend the case will be transferred to your home court.

 

I'm actually suprised they've taken this action, if you lose (which isn't likely as I'd be amazed if they had any documentation for the card) then a) the judge will not be impressed they ignored you DMP.

b) won't order you to pay more then you can afford. If your DMP was set up properly then I'd be amazed if this was more than you're currently paying.

 

Cheers

 

Hugh

[AndyOrch]

Hi Freddyboy and welcome to Cag

 

Have a read of this it will explain the process :-

MBNA-CBS Transcom-Arrow Global LLC- Cope's-County Court Claim Form URGENT HELP PLEASE

 

Regards

 

Andy;)

[FreddyBoy1957]

Hi Freddyboy and welcome to Cag

 

Have a read of this it will explain the process :-

MBNA-CBS Transcom-Arrow Global LLC- Cope's-County Court Claim Form URGENT HELP PLEASE

 

Regards

 

Andy;)

 

That's absolutely brilliant. Thank you so much, Andy :).

 

Just to recap, my first action is to send a CCA to Arrow (or do I send it to Copes); then send a CPR to Copes; then go online and inform the court I intend to defend the claim????

 

Thanks once again

[AndyOrch]

Hi Freddy you can send the CCA request to the Claimant or Sol the CPR goes to the Sols acting as per the address on the summons.Yes use your password and then acknowledge the claim with your intention dont forget to print off your proof reciept.

 

Regards

 

Andy:cool:

[boyfalldown]

Hi Both,

 

You don't need the CCA request now, save your self the cost of postage and more importantly it takes to long. The CPR request will produce it if it exists - you can ask specially for it in your request as this will produce all documentation they intend to rely on in the case. When they don't comply you can ask for the court to order them to do so.

 

Freddy you need to post your (cleaned) PoC

 

Cheers

 

Hugh

[AndyOrch]

Hi Both,

 

You don't need the CCA request now, save your self the cost of postage and more importantly it takes to long. The CPR request will produce it if it exists - you can ask specially for it in your request as this will produce all documentation they intend to rely on in the case. When they don't comply you can ask for the court to order them to do so.

 

Freddy you need to post your (cleaned) PoC

 

Cheers

 

Hugh

 

Sorry Hugh to play headmaster here but there is a need to request a seperate sec 78 request for the following reasons:-

 

A. CPR request will be ignored or partially complied with and by the time you get the court to Order Disclosure your defence will have already been submitted.

 

B. A seperate request with the Stat £1.00 payment is legally binding and cant be ignored and i will assure you Arrow wont have one.Therefore by the time we submit the defence they will also be in default of said request

which will then refute their P.O.C.

 

 

I trust the above clarifies my advice

 

Regards

 

Andy;)

[boyfalldown]

Hi Andy,

 

 

Cheers for that. I think we disagree about the way to approach this. I'd just put the CPR request in, then report to the court that they won't comply and are hindering the ability to put together a proper defence. On this basis you could seek an order order for them to do so or be struck out. At the same time I'd submit a 'holding defence' seeking permission to change it if and when they comply with the CPR request (not that they'll be able to)

 

Different ways of achieving the same thing.

 

Cheers

 

Hugh

[AndyOrch]

Hi Andy,

 

 

Cheers for that. I think we disagree about the way to approach this. I'd just put the CPR request in, then report to the court that they won't comply and are hindering the ability to put together a proper defence. The Court wont compel them On this basis you could seek an order order for them to do so or be struck out. Application Notices cost £75.00 and no DJ would strike out for that reason at that stage,The Claimant would just prolong the matter and beef up their costs At the same time I'd submit a 'holding defence' seeking permission to change it if and when they comply with the CPR request (not that they'll be able to) Better to refer to the request and state that they have defaulted in the initial defence and only costs a £1.00 and postage better than £75.00

 

Different ways of achieving the same thing.

 

Cheers

 

Hugh

 

If you heed the advice i have given this will halt the claim in its tracks and confirm to yourself that no CCA exsists.Why prolong matters with orders and directions when a Sec 78 request is so easy during litigation.Nothing more powerful than making the statement they are in default of a Sec 78 request in your defence and will also make the Claimant run for the hills.

Just the way I do things and have many excellent results.

 

Regards

 

Andy;)

[boyfalldown]

Hi Andy,

 

Ok we do things slightly differently. I'm unsure about the application order and the £75 costs. I've not come across this. I've sort the order that a claimant complies with an CPR request as part of the allocation/directions process with out issue on the basis a defence was unreasonably frustrate. It added little to the timescales

 

Hugh

[AndyOrch]

Hi Hugh (apologies freddy for this in your thread)

 

Unfortunatly as this case will be allocated to SCT Im afraid your logic would be rather restricted due to SCT direction restrictions.As i stated better to frighten them off at the defence submission and get the claim discontinued rather than argue the odds at allocation stage.What would you do if they did produce a valid enforcable agreement and your case had been allocated to a track?

 

Andy

Edited October 30, 2008 by Andyorch

[FreddyBoy1957]

Andy & Hugh

 

Many thanks for your valuable advice.

 

I think I'll do as Andy suggests and:

1) submit a CCA request by registered post to Copes Solicitors.

2) submit a CPR request by registered post to Copes Solicitors (send under separate cover to (1) above)

3) At the end of next week go online and notify intention to defend the CC case.

 

I have another question - if they comply with the CCA and CPR and it is shown that the debt is enforceable, will the court allow me to retract my intention to defend and submit an offer of payment? What would be the time limit for this?

 

Hugh, you said I need to post my POC - excuse my ignorance bit what is this??

 

Many thanks once again for your help and I'll keep you posted.

[AndyOrch]

"I have another question - if they comply with the CCA and CPR and it is shown that the debt is enforceable, will the court allow me to retract my intention to defend and submit an offer of payment? What would be the time limit for this? You will request the right to amend your defence if said request is furnished

Hugh, you said I need to post my POC - excuse my ignorance bit what is this?? Particulars of Claim as per your summons copy verbatum

Regards

Andy

 

[mr.ton]

Our client is confident of obtaining a judgement against you for the sum owed plus court fees and solicitors costs. It is not believed you have a legitimate or any defence.’

.

 

Muppets...are they not familiar with the system & the many rights you do have

[FreddyBoy1957]

Just an update on the situation. I posted off the requests for the CAA and CPR on Saturday 1/11/2008 and both were sent separately. They were both signed for on Monday 3/11/2008. As yet I have heard nothing back.

I today completed on-line my acknowledgement of the County Court Service, and stated my intention to fully defend the case. The date of the summons is 27/10/2008 so I think I'm right in saying that I had up until 15/11/2008 to acknowledge the service and now have up until 29/11/2008 to submit my defence.

I'm a bit confused about the 12+2 days for an answer to the CAA/CPR - can somebody please advise me what date I should receive them by and what I should do if I don't get anything back. Very many thanks for your valued help.

[AndyOrch]

Just an update on the situation. I posted off the requests for the CAA and CPR on Saturday 1/11/2008 and both were sent separately. They were both signed for on Monday 3/11/2008. As yet I have heard nothing back.

I today completed on-line my acknowledgement of the County Court Service, and stated my intention to fully defend the case. The date of the summons is 27/10/2008 so I think I'm right in saying that I had up until 15/11/2008 to acknowledge the service and now have up until 29/11/2008 to submit my defence.

I'm a bit confused about the 12+2 days for an answer to the CAA/CPR - can somebody please advise me what date I should receive them by and what I should do if I don't get anything back. Very many thanks for your valued help.

 

Hi FreddyBoy

 

Ok the CCA request 12+2 (working days) failure to comply would render said request in default.

 

CPR request, I presume you have allowed 10 days to respond.Failure to furnish said request.You will then proceed to submit an holding defence.

Keep an eye on your dates Freddy.

 

 

Regards

 

Andy:cool:

[FreddyBoy1957]

Hi FreddyBoy

 

Ok the CCA request 12+2 (working days) failure to comply would render said request in default.

 

CPR request, I presume you have allowed 10 days to respond.Failure to furnish said request.You will then proceed to submit an holding defence.

Keep an eye on your dates Freddy.

 

 

Regards

 

Andy:cool:

 

Hi Andy, thanks for the quick response. Yes, as far as the CPR goes I used the one suggested by you in the link below, so def 10 days. So from next Monday I should be in a position to make my defence??

 

Thanks once again.

[FreddyBoy1957]

Hi Andy

 

Well, I think the expiry dates for replies from Copes were up on Saturday 15th. I have not heard anything regarding either the CCA or CPR requests (I do have POD).

I would really appreciate your help in where to go from here - I assume I have to send a letter of default regarding the CAA, and submit a defence to the County Court in respect of the CPR - I have to submit my defence by 29/11/2008. Thanks for your valued assistance .

 

Regards - Freddyboy

[FreddyBoy1957]

Hi All

 

Sorry to bump this up, but I'm worried.

 

CAA/CPR request sent 1/11/2008, signed for, and no reply received. In the meantime, I have completed my AOS to the County Court and have until 29/11/2008 to submit my defence.

 

Andy has advised me that if I get no CAA/CPR then I will submit a 'holding defence', but I'm not at all sure of what this is or how I put it together. Can anybody help please?? I will post up the Particulars of Claim tomorrow if needed, but the gist of it is they say I entered a loan agreement under the CCA 1974, they have been assigned the debt, they have issued a default notice, and they now seek full payment.

 

Also, as the account is now in default because they have not sent a copy of the CAA, do I need to send in a default letter to them bearing in mind it's going to court. I have the letter already to send but need to know if it's OK. It is as follows:

Account in Dispute

On 1st November 2008 I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the above account under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 section 77/8. A copy of this request is enclosed for your perusal and ease of reference.

You have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account entered default on 15th November 2008.

 

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contains all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices, and was signed by both the creditor and myself as defined in section 61(1) of Consumer Credit Act 1974 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document. In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.

 

Furthermore you are aware that the Consumer Credit Act 1974 allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before your client enters into a default situation.

 

This limit has expired.

 

As you are no doubt aware section 77(6) states:

 

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)

(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.

 

Therefore, as you have failed to comply with a lawful request for a true signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, failed to send a full statement of the account, and failed to provide any of the documentation requested, this account has become unenforceable at law.

 

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as being both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS. Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect. This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies. Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data. It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’. You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends. Should you not respond within 14 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all relevant data.

 

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY

action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

 

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

 

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* You may not pass the account to a third party.

* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit.

You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

Yours faithfully

 

Many thanks for any help/advice you can give:)

[AndyOrch]

Hi Freddy and thanks for the Rep and kind comments:)

 

I would not advocate sending the above as it really serves no purpose.Litigation has commenced and therefore the above would be rather pointless considering the account is well and truly already in dispute.

Either from the date on your summons work out the date of submission of your holding defence or check with Court phone number top right tiny print ,the staff are really helpful and confirm the date we will be working to.If you can do the above asap this will assist in planning our timeframe.

 

 

Just post if you are unsure

 

Regards

 

Andy;)

[FreddyBoy1957]

Hi Freddy and thanks for the Rep and kind comments:)

 

I would not advocate sending the above as it really serves no purpose.Litigation has commenced and therefore the above would be rather pointless considering the account is well and truly already in dispute.

Either from the date on your summons work out the date of submission of your holding defence or check with Court phone number top right tiny print ,the staff are really helpful and confirm the date we will be working to.If you can do the above asap this will assist in planning our timeframe.

 

 

Just post if you are unsure

 

Regards

 

Andy;)

 

Thanks for that, Andy.

I've left the summons at home. I will phone the court tomorrow to confirm dates, but:

 

summons dated 27/10/2008

service date=27/10/2008 +5 = 1/11/2008

AOS required by 1/11/2008 + 14 = 15/11/2008 (actually submitted online on 11/11/2008)

Defence required by 15/11/2008 + 14 = 29/11/2008 (or should it be 11/11/2008 + 14 = 25/11/2008 as that's when I actually submitted it).

 

I will confirm this tomorrow after I've spoken to the court.

Many thanks, Andy, for your valued time and help :)

[FreddyBoy1957]

Hi Andy

 

Here's a link to the POC

http://i461.photobucket.com/albums/qq340/Freddyboy1957/Claim/POC.jpg

 

Hope you can see it.

 

I'll post up the defence deadline date later this morning after I've confirmed it with the court.

 

Many thanks - Freddyboy

[AndyOrch]

Hi Freddy

 

I get it to 29th Nov but will wait for your confirmation

 

 

Regards

 

Andy

[42man]

Moving to Legal Issues forum...

[FreddyBoy1957]

Hi Freddy

 

I get it to 29th Nov but will wait for your confirmation

 

 

Regards

 

Andy

 

Hi Andy

 

I phoned the court and they said Friday 28th November.

 

Any help you can give with my defence will be gratefully received.

 

Many thanks - Freddyboy