Nationwide taking court action

[1littleduck]

Hi all.

I have a nationwide credit card account and am in trouble with them.

They sent me a letter form KPR dept collections, which kept telephoning me, so I sent both the n/w and kpr a cca letter.

n/w first sent my p/o back saying it had not got my account details on, so i posted it back out to them.

nationwide have still not supplied the copy of agreement just a letter telling me they are going to take me to court if i dont pay them and their 12 days are up.

KPR have not contacted me since..

I have the links to the letters below.

Can anyone please tell me what to do now.

Thank you!

 

http://i534.photobucket.com/albums/ee344/gangsta_caz/Nw2-1.jpg

 

http://i534.photobucket.com/albums/ee344/gangsta_caz/Nw1.jpg

 

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[74656]

You need to send this if they have not complied with CCA request within 12+2 working days

 

Account In Dispute

 

Ref:

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account.

 

On **DATE** I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8. A copy of which is enclosed for your perusal and ease of reference.

You have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account entered default on **DATE**.

 

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document. In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.

 

Furthermore

 

You are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before your client enters into a default situation.

 

These limits have expired.

 

As you are no doubt aware section 77(6) states:

 

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)

 

(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.

 

Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

 

As you have Failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, Failed to send a full statement of the account and Failed to provide any of the documentation requested.

 

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

 

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect.

 

This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

 

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 14 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data.

 

It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

 

Should you not respond within 14 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

 

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY

Action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

 

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

 

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* You may not pass the account to a third party.

* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit.

You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

Mr\Mrs\Ms XXXXXXX

 

 

 

Furthermore, if a ccj claim form has been issued then acknowledge it, to give u 28 days to prepare a defence. If they have not provided you with a crredit agreement within the stated time them make sure you mention this on the defence form, and that you are unsure about the particulars of the debt and without this information you are unable to ascetrtain that the debt is yours.

 

M x

[74656]

Re your returned cheque/postal order.

 

Resend this with a copy of THE ORIGINAL CCA REQUEST, with a covering letter stating what it is for. the original time limit still stands.

 

M x.

[1littleduck]

Hi ciaomc2002,

Thanks very much for your response and letter, I have sent this off today.

A copy of the cca letter was returned to them 2 days after it was sent back to me, and I recorded it as well, so they have had it twice now.

I altered the above letter to reflect this..

I will let you know what happens.

I am sorry it has taken me a while to get thsi far, but no-one here knows the problems I have, and I have to wait for all to go to bed before I can do anything...sad ay!!, sdo I am grateful for any help...Thanks again.

[1littleduck]

Hi, I have posted the letter to the Nationwide yesterday by recorded delivery..so I guess I just have to wait now..

I am really worried about all of this, as I have the HFC taking me to court, and the nationwide maybe as well, with others I guess to follow....I heard on the radio about a company called carhoot i think or something like that, that will check out all fo your credit card agreements, is this worth a look at?

[creditcardmug]

Hi, I have posted the letter to the Nationwide yesterday by recorded delivery..so I guess I just have to wait now..

I am really worried about all of this, as I have the HFC taking me to court, and the nationwide maybe as well, with others I guess to follow....I heard on the radio about a company called carhoot i think or something like that, that will check out all fo your credit card agreements, is this worth a look at?

 

No dont go using agreement checking companies, we can do it on here for free.

Have you had a "Default Notice" from them yet?

 

Have a look at my thread here in the meantime

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/dca-legal-successes/126560-nationwide-kpr-cca-request.html

[creditcardmug]

I see they have sent a default notice can you post that up?

 

BTW dont sign anything you send them just type your name

[1littleduck]

Hi Creditcard mug,

Thanks for all your help so far. I have read a little of your thread and you are much the same as me with all the credit cards...I will continue reading through until I understand things a little better.

I dont know if they have sent a default notice as I was using Cregory Pennington and was simply sending all of my post to them, if I had one them GP will have it.

I sent the letter above as you said and will wait until I get more from them.

They cannot say they have had no cca request, as they sent the first back to me..date stamped and asked me to fill in the PO with my account details on it...so I did...and still have had no responce from them and it is about a month now.

I am going to court with the HFC soon I think, this is getting to me a bit..I have sent in my defence on Thursday, but am haiving to do it by post as I could not login on line, the password was not right for some reason.

[1littleduck]

Hi all, I have today received these 2 letters from the NW...please can someone help as to what to do next...

 

http://i534.photobucket.com/albums/ee344/gangsta_caz/Nw4.jpg

 

http://i534.photobucket.com/albums/ee344/gangsta_caz/Nw6.jpg

 

Thank you..

[creditcardmug]

Well it looks like they have issued a claim, when it arrives post up the Particulars of Claim, so that we can advise you further

[1littleduck]

I will post it up as soon as I receive it thanks.

Should they be taking this action as they have not yet sent me a copt of my agreement as requested?

[1littleduck]

Hi all,

The court papers have arrived and are linked below..

They still have not yet sent me a copy of my credit agreement..

 

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http://i534.photobucket.com/albums/ee344/gangsta_caz/nwc2.jpg

http://i534.photobucket.com/albums/ee344/gangsta_caz/Nwc3.jpg

 

 

[PGH7447]

I would in the first instance contact the person in the letter dated 6 October and ask them why if they cannot provide the requested agreement by the 30 october they think they can start legal proceedings while still in default of a lawful request.

 

I am sure someone will be along shortly re the court issue

[creditcardmug]

Hi again, well your in a good position here, their POC is rubbish.

 

1 they should have served the agreement with the claim, as they have filed in Swindon and not Northampton.

2 there is no reference to a default notice having been served.

 

So they are making mistakes from the outset.

 

What date is on the claim form?

[Docman]

Typical of NW. They think they can do anything through their local 'friendly' court in Swindon.

 

Plenty here to defend. I suggest the Mods move to Legal issues forum where more help may be available.

[1littleduck]

Hi all,

The NW have sent me a copy of my cca.....posted below.

I dont think much to it.......

http://i534.photobucket.com/albums/ee344/gangsta_caz/Nwcca.jpg

[creditcardmug]

Are the prescribed terms on it, or does it say they are overleaf or something like that? is your signature on it?

[1littleduck]

Hi Credidcardmug, the court date is 9th October, I think that must be the date it starts, so I guess I have 14 days to send in my defence....any help would be gratefully received......thanks

[creditcardmug]

Ok, you need to send the Acknowledgement of Service back to the court by recorded, tick defend all of the claim. Make sure you do this straight away.

 

You the have 33days from the date on the claim form to file your defence, so i make thay 10th november.

 

Then you need to send a CPR request to NW, theres a couple of letters to choose from on here, ill see if i can find them.

[creditcardmug]

Here's one CPR letter which i have used, ill post the other one up next,

 

In the XXXX County Court

Claimant -v- (YOUR NAME)

Claim Number: (CLAIM NUMBER)

 

 

Dear XXX

 

REQUEST FOR INFORMATION CPR18

 

I have received a recent court claim from your organisation. In order to file a defence and counter claim I require some information. Given that this matter is now the subject of legal proceedings, you are obliged to disclose under the Civil Procedure Rules, the information and documents detailed below.

 

The information must be furnished within fourteen days of the receipt of this letter. If you fail to comply, this will be reported to the Court, a copy of this letter will be provided as evidence to the same and an Order enforcing your compliance will be sought.

 

1. A true copy of the executed credit agreement and any terms and conditions that applied to the account at the time of default and at the time the account was opened. True copies of any notice of assignment and/or default notice or enforcement notice that you or the original creditor sent me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

 

 

1.1 If copies of any of the above documents are to be relied on in court rather than originals, a copy of the Notice of proposal to adduce hearsay evidence required under s2(1) of the Civil Evidence Act 1995 together with proof of the authenticity of the document(s) as required under s8(1)(b) of the Act, including but not limited to:

 

(a) a copy of the procedure(s) used for copying, storing and retrieving documents

(b) a copy of the relevant log entry showing the time and date of the scan or copy, the name of the member of staff making the copy, the method used for copying, storage and retrieval and time and date of destruction of the original document(s)

© copies of internal and external audit reports covering the entire period from the date of the copy to the present to demonstrate that the procedures have been complied with

(d) copies of Quality Assurance accreditation certificates covering the entire period from the date of the copy to the present to demonstrate that the procedure(s) and audit process(es) comply with the appropriate quality standards

 

2. All records you hold on me relevant to this case, including but not limited to:

 

a. Transcriptions of all telephone conversations recorded and any notes made in relation to telephone conversations by your company, or by any previous creditor

b. Where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my account formerly held with *********.(AMEND TO THE COMPANY NAME)

c. .Documents relating to any insurance added to the account, including the insurance contract and terms and conditions, date it was added and deleted (if applicable).

d. Details of any collection charge added to the account; specifically, the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was calculated, and what the charge covers.

e. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of this account and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.

f. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998

g. A list of third party agencies to whom you have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

h. Copies of statements for the entire duration of the credit agreement.

 

 

3. Any other documents you seek to rely on in court.

 

 

I will require this information within the next fourteen days. I must advise you that if the information is not forthcoming, it will be reported to the Court that you are trying to frustrate proceedings and denying me the opportunity to file a defence and counter claim.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

XXXX (type, don't sign).

[1littleduck]

Hi again,

I have attached a letter that they send along with the paperwork..

The cca is an application form, but does not say there are other pages with it although they have send 3 pages of t&c + all the statements from 2002 to date.

My signature is on it and they have signed it.

if you click the link you can read them... thanks for your quick reply...

http://i534.photobucket.com/albums/ee344/gangsta_caz/NWL1.jpg

http://i534.photobucket.com/albums/ee344/gangsta_caz/NWL2.jpg

[creditcardmug]

Here is the other CPR letter, this one tries to force them to comply with the CPR, as alot of them don't,

 

Dear Sir,

 

Re: (Claimant's name) v (Your name) Case No:

 

CPR 31.14 Request

 

On (date) I received the Claim Form in this case issued by you out of the (Name) County Court.

 

I confirm having returned my acknowledgement of service to the court in which I indicate my intention to contest all of your claim.

 

Please treat this letter as my request made under CPR 31.14 for the disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of [each of the following / the] document(s) mentioned in your Particulars of Claim:

1 the agreement. You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should also be attached.

 

2 the assignment

 

3 the default notice

 

Your client should ensure compliance with its CPR 31 duties and ensure that the documents I have requested are copied to and received by me within 7 days of receiving this letter. Your CPR 31 duties extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for the originals of the documents I have requested, the better for you to be able to verify the document's authenticity and to provide me with a legible copy. Further, where I have requested a copy of a document, the original of which is now in the possession of another person, you will have a right to possession of that document if you have mentioned it in your case. You must take immediate steps to recover and preserve it for the purpose of this case.

 

Where I have mentioned a document and there is in your possession more than one version of that same document owing to a modification, obliteration or other marking or feature, each version will be a separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to me. Your obligations extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for any version(s) to include an obligation to recover and preserve such version(s) which are now in the possession of a third party.

 

In accordance with CPR 31.15© I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request.

 

If you require more time in which to comply with this request you must tell me in writing. You must tell me before the time for compliance with this request has expired. In telling me you require more time you must tell me what steps you have taken and propose to take in order to comply with this request and also state a date by when you will comply with this request. In addition your statement must be accompanied with a statement that you agree to an extension of the time for me to file my defence. Your extension of time must be not less than 14 days from the date when you say you will have complied with my request and you must state the new date for filing my defence.

 

If you are unable to comply with this request and believe that you will never be able to comply with this request you must tell me in writing.

Please note that if you should fail to comply with this request, fail to request more time or fail to agree to an extension of time for the filing of my defence, I will make an application to the court for an order that the proceedings be struck out or stayed for non-compliance and a summary costs order.

 

I do hope this will not be necessary and look forward to hearing from you.

 

yours faithfully

 

 

You will have to delete item 2 and edit it slightly.

[1littleduck]

Hi CCM, thanks for that..They have sent me their copy of the agreement, which is an application form and stamped approved, is this classed as a legal agreement as I think that is all they will send me again.

I will send the letter and take out item 2, this will go of today.

Thanks for your help.

[Docman]

Hi little duck,

 

NW seem to have the left hand, right hand syndrome, ie they simply do not know what they are doing.

 

Can I suggest the following course of action.

1. Send off the Acknowledgment of Service to the Swindon County Court now if you haven't done so yet.

2. Send CCM's letter (above) to the Legal Services Team at NW. Their address is on page 2 of their claim form.

3. Prepare a defence to lodge within the next couple of weeks.

4. Decide whether you want to ignore the last letter dated 17 Oct or complain to FOS. Normally, I would always suggest writing back, but since NW had already brought legal proceedings, there wouldn't be much point. Do not expect much from FOS either but at least you know NW will have to shell out £450 to pay for the FOS enquiry.

[1littleduck]

Hi again CCM,

I have read the CPR letter you posted, and as far as I am concerned, they have not issued a default notice and have not mentioned this in their court doc's...they have already sent a copy of the agreement, should I still send the letter to them?

I have sent the paperwork back to the court today, but I also notice that the date on the court paperwork is the 9th and the envelope is dated the 16th, so when does my responce date start from? as there is 7 days between them!