HBOS and OH's card debt

[lexis200]

Have to say thanks to Vint for the original pic -when I saw it as a mini-pic I had to have it:D

 

DD - type free avatar into google...

[lexis200]

Righty ho peops, after getting a bit miffed with RW in September, they have finally got back to me with.....yep, you guessed it....another application form!

 

This is my response

 

I am in receipt of your letter dated 26th October, sent by 2nd Class post and reaching me today.

 

 

Thank you for sending me yet another copy of an Application form, this brings the total up to 4 copies for my collection of illegible and void-of-any-prescribed-terms Application forms from the Bank of Scotland.

 

 

I have enclosed a copy of the Application form you have sent me (it being very slightly being of a better quality than the last three), and as soon as you highlight all of the prescribed terms, please ensure it is sent back to me. If you could also make page 2 legible that would be appreciated.

 

 

When you can not do this please ensure the matter is handed back the the Bank of Scotland so that they may unlawfully harass me personally rather than passing it on to a third party such as yourselves.

 

 

As you seem intent on asking for payment for this unenforceable account, I will reiterate that you will of course be aware I have absolutely no intention of paying money to you, or anyone else who can not prove they own the alleged debt, or indeed that I owe it.

 

 

The only further correspondence I expect to receive from you is acknowledgement you are not pursuing this and have passed my details back to HBOS.

 

 

I trust this outlines my position clearly.

 

Quite honestly I'm getting a bit tired of this nonsense, so I'm going to be trying a different tack next which I'm really hoping will have a better reaction from hbos. It really does begger belief this. They have no agreement, only this form which I've had in various forms of legibility and size, they've defaulted OH at least twice now, neither time giving enough days for remedy, and terminated twice unlawfully. All this, and they are STILL insisting they are right. I just don't get how any company is allowed to behave in such a blatantly reprehensible (and unlawful) manner.

[lexis200]

Thanks chaps:)

 

I know it's just how they work, and that they can't be seen to be just letting people 'away' with stuff, but for god's sake, they've kept this up for a year and a half now, I think they've made their point:mad:

 

Anyway, I need to slightly amend that letter as the grammar and layout is a bit skewed (first draft, and I was hacked off about something else when I wrote it:rolleyes:), then I'll get it off to them.

 

I am just wondering, is it worth saying that I won't respond to anything else from them? It goes very against the grain for me as I like to be able to show I've tried to explain things, but really, it's just such a round robin now I'm beginning to feel a sentence saying that I don't have the time to answer template letters any more might be ok?

[lexis200]

Ooh, I like that CB:) Thanks x

[lexis200]

Hi AFW:)

 

Take whatever you want letter-wise, I hope it works for you!

 

After I told moorcroft to sod off in June we've not had anything of note go on on this account. I'm just doing a time-line for both this and the other BOS account (who have been rather more vocal, but no more effective in their annoyance:D) which I'll get off to the CEO to see if that gets me anywhere.

 

If that does nothing - and I'm not holding out much hope that it will! - I'm just going to ignore them, aside from claiming back charges that is.

 

Hope it all goes well for you.

 

Lexis:)

[lexis200]

Only in so many words of course CB:)

 

Elsa - I think it's Eric Daniels (the Lloyds CEO) since they took HBOS over?

[lexis200]

Anyone got any experience either way?

 

I've just written (posted) the Co-op CEO, and had a response back from A N Other person in their 'Executive Feedback Department'. Seeing as she either ignored or completely twisted everything I wrote I'm guessing it's just someone from their standard 'Useless Twaddle Feedback Department' who sat at a different desk.

 

Bit miffed as I scrawled on the envelope that it was for the attention of the CEO only, and not to be opened by anyone else. Is the opening of someone else's mail when it says private the same for business individuals as private individuals I wonder?

 

Would it make any difference to email him directly - has anyone got a decent result from this when letters didn't work?

 

Or, is it possible to write to CEO's at their home address'? Is this a really dodgy thing to do?

 

Anyone's input welcome:)

 

Thanks:)

[lexis200]

Hello hello:)

 

Well I got a reply from RobWay saying that in their view it was compliant, and how did I want to pay. So I sent this (oh I now I said I wouldn't, but I wouldn't be me if I just went quiet:oops:)

 

Your 3½ line letter (complete with misspelt words and unfinished sentences), dated the 16th November and sent by 2nd class post, arrived with me on Monday – the 16th November. This seems rather strange and I will assume it is not your standard practice to post-date items in order to make your company appear swifter in its responses.

 

You are well aware the piece of paper you sent does not fulfil the requirements of an enforceable agreement.

 

You are also well aware that court action is not an option that is open to the Bank of Scotland, let alone any of the low-level companies they employ to unlawfully harass people.

 

Any further threats of legal proceedings will be met with a request for information under the Civil Procedure Rules in order to ascertain what documents you would be relying on in court, as I am assuming you would have something more than the illegible application form with no prescribed terms that I have already been sent many copies of. You should bear in mind that I have sent a request under the CPR to Blair, Oliver & Scott for this same information in March 2009 after their threat of court action. They are still in breach of this request, and both Blair, Oliver & Scott and the Bank of Scotland are strangely reluctant to answer my questions regarding this complete lack of a response.

 

Lastly I will inform you as a courtesy that I will not be spending time, money and energy on replying to you any more. In addition to not having any legal right to harass me about this account, you clearly have no knowledge of the Consumer Credit Act, no wish to act lawfully, and no regard for abiding by either the OFT guidelines on debt collection or the CPUTR so I see no reason to humour you with further communication. I am however keeping all copies of your letters for any complaints I see fit to make to the OFT, FOS and Trading Standards. I am sure they will find your use of threatening language (despite knowing you can not carry out your threats) very interesting.

 

I got a 4 line letter today - '...Having now reviewed your comments, we can advise you that your account has been returned to our client and will no longer be managed by this office...'

 

 

Now I'll ignore them:D;)

[lexis200]

I'm going to add your ending to my Co-op letter btw IanHL - it's just what I want. Thanks:)

 

edit - thanks for posting up slicks letter ian:)

[lexis200]

If only the actual bank were so easily dispatched:rolleyes:

[lexis200]

Hmm, okay. I'll give the registered address option a go and get an email off but I guess I just won't hold my breath.

 

Funny though, I would have thought a large part of a CEO's job would be to ensure his sodding company was running within the law and to answer questions regarding his company's dreadful staff!

 

Thanks chaps:)

[lexis200]

Helloooo there you:)

 

I've not ever heard of that so will get OH onto it pronto!

 

Thanks muchly for the handy advice:)

[lexis200]

'lo all, just popping on for a quick update:)

 

whaddya know, OH had a letter from Westcot regarding this account:rolleyes: I'll just recycle an old DCA letter I think to tell them to foxtrot oscar (I really must see if I can actually work that into a letter one day...)

[lexis200]

Hello all, long time no see:)

 

Well it's all been ok on the BOS front. Since Robby Way we've also had Iqor (dispatched) and Wescot (dispatching), but nothing major. Today though I had a phone call...

 

I've just copied what I put in the 'what made you want to swear today' thread to save typing it all out again.

 

Frickin' BOS

 

Just had a call on my mobile (technically OH's but he has a new one and I have his, along with his old number). Anyway, just had Mr X from BOS phone and ask for him. Obviously I told him it's no longer OH's phone, why didn't they read the bl**dy notes from the call I had 3 days ago which told them that, and why didn't they write which is what I've told them to do (and which they have been)?

 

At which point he said 'are you at XXX XXX?' NOOOOOO, we're not!!! We've not been there for over 3 years. They were told this when we moved. They were told again when we were getting mail redirected from there. They were told this when they were sending defaults (yes, plural) here and to the old address.

 

I am absolutely fuming, and wondering what the hell to do about it. As it stands I want to phone them up and shout every single expletive I know down the phone at them. How bl**dy dare they keep sending financial mail to a known old address, especially when they have not only sent mail here but have had it answered from here?!!

 

Is this something I can complain to the Information Commissioner`s Office/fos about? Clearly they are choosing to send mail to the wrong address. It can't magically have reverted to the old one on their system!

 

I'm also slightly concerned about what it is they are sending. In all probability it will be a load of dross, but if they are now chancing their arm and sending legal stuff out I can't do anything about it and we'll probably find in 6 months that OH has a CCJ against him

 

I'm spitting feathers here. Any suggestions anyone? Even if it's some new swear words I can use on them...

 

I did knock up a letter but a) I'm cross so it's ranty and probably would do more harm than good (see below) and b) I haven't written to BOS for months now and I'm not sure I want to start that up again.

 

In fact, the only reason I even thought about it was because I had that horrible thought that maybe it really is a tactical thing on their part - they know they can't win in court, but if they send the stuff to the wrong address they can get a judgement on OH without him even knowing. Paranoid I know (especially given that we know they really are inept enough to have simply lost the correct address!), but still.

 

Funny thing is that the DCA's they are passing OH's info on to all manage to get the right place:rolleyes:

 

You may notice I have not added my address to this letter. This is intentional.

 

I moved from XXX some years ago. Since then you have written to me both at the address I moved to first, and to the address I am currently at. I have written to you from this address and you have answered that correspondence, again to this address.

 

Please therefore explain exactly why when you phoned my old mobile on the 23rd April the agent who spoke to my partner informed her that you have been sending mail AGAIN to the old address?

 

In February last year I found it necessary to complain to you that your letters were not only being sent to my new address, but duplicates were also going to my old one when you had already received written confirmation when I moved that I was no longer residing there. You simply stated that it was the only address you had on file (clearly untrue given the letters you had been sending to the correct address), but that it had been changed.

 

To once again start sending letters to a known wrong address is ridiculous. At best this is appalling record-keeping on your part, but at worst this is a Data Protection issue as you KNOW that I do not live at the address you have been using.

 

In addition to this you appear to once again be phoning me. Firstly the phone no longer belongs to me, so remove the number from your system or my partner will issue a complaint regarding you phoning on her phone. Secondly, your notes should clearly show I will not discuss financial matters over the phone. I will respond to letters only. Obviously this becomes a little more tricky when you knowingly use an old address.

 

I expect a full apology and an explanation of your actions. If I do not have this I will be complaining to Trading Standards and the Information Commissioners Office. Your behaviour is completely unacceptable and I demand it is acknowledged by you and not passed over as you have previously done.

 

So do I send a letter similar to the above, or do I just leave it and assume it's yet another cock-up rather than a planned move on their part?

[lexis200]

Hey DD:D

 

You may be right, it's been quiet for a long time so it's probably a bit silly to risk it, even though it's unlikely to be anything terrible.

 

ps - Wednesday:D:D:D I'm sooooooo excited:lol:

[lexis200]

Hey CB, how are you?

 

So I can complain to the ICO then? That's good news. I wasn't sure if I was right on that and I hate threatening something I can't follow through on:eek:

[lexis200]

Hope you have a really fabulous time. :)

 

xx

 

Thank you! We're packing tomorrow so I've spent all week doing the washing and ironing and then not letting anyone wear anything:lol:

 

I reckon come Wednesday we're all going to resemble that kid on Snoopy who always has the flies round him:)

[lexis200]

Hey London:)

 

It's ok, I'm not sitting in fretting about it - I spent the afternoon watching my boys play in the park whilst having a chat with some friends, then took my eldest to karate where I spent a very enjoyable hour ogling one of the (very young:eek:) instructors:D

 

I love Friday evenings:D

[lexis200]

Ooh, what belt is she?

 

Mine's on 2nd kyu - he's just got 1st kyu and then black belt:eek: He's just turned nine so if he does really really well he may hit black while he's ten, and when he does get to black they do knife training:eek: (they're wooden knives and it's defence as opposed to how to mug someone just in case you worried:D)

[lexis200]

Hey all:)

 

I did have a superb time thanks DD. Disneyworld was just brilliant and our villa was lovely. We did end up having to drag the kids away from our pool to go to the parks though - one of our conversations in the last week was along the lines of 'well mummy and daddy want to go to Disney again, so you're coming whether you like it or not!'

 

Of course we now can't afford to eat, heat the house, use the water etc, but never mind, it was soooo worth it. I know OH's dad would be happy with how some of his money was spent as it made us very happy after a long time of rotten luck, and we couldn't possibly have afforded it without it!

 

As a little update on this, Wescot are still banging on but not getting anywhere:rolleyes: I would love to know what BOS have spent chasing this completely unenforceable account - 2 years, 4 or 5 DCA's, multiple letters and calls from BOS, all for an account of about 2k. It's completely mental really isn't it?!

 

ps - I hope you are better now MMM and that it wasn't a serious problem xx

[lexis200]

Hey angel:)

 

Glad you're still holding on; it's all good if you're managing to be positive - that's the kicker if you lose the optimism.

 

OH had a letter from Wescot today. After last weeks threat of imminent court action and big burly men turning up at my door (actually I was quite looking forward to that one;)), the letter that came today is offering what could be a 'substantial reduction' in his debt if he calls them to talk.

 

Glad to see they're still playing good DCA bad DCA:)

[lexis200]

Ok, new player on the field is...Nelson Guest and Partners Solicitors, acting on behalf of Wescot.

 

So after threatening court 2 weeks ago, offering OH a substantial discount last week, this week Wescot have passed it onto a solicitor. I wish they'd show some consistency!

 

Anyway, I was wondering if Wescot can actually issue proceedings? I thought it was only the actual creditor who could do that, but the letter definitely calls Wescot their 'client' and then goes onto say they will have to instruct their client to issue proceedings.

 

I just need to know if I can add that into my letter, or if I should ignore that point and tell them what's what with the rest of it?

 

ps - they do state 'we believe that, if possible, court proceedings should be avoided'. Hmm, would that be because a) they have no enforceable agreement b) they cocked up on the DN/Termination c) they owe more in unlawful charges than OH 'owes' on the account d)they've been knowingly sending mail to the wrong address e) they are using threats they know they can not follow through on or f) all of the above?!

[lexis200]

Right, this is for Wescot, and I'm just doing one for the sols. Then they can either bugger off or try taking OH to court as I'm not responding to any other c*ap from them.

 

I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO YOU OR ANY COMPANY

YOU CLAIM TO REPRESENT

 

I am in receipt of your recent two letters, and a letter from Nelson Guest Solicitors sent on your behalf.

 

Please refer to my letter of the 19th April which you received on the 20th April but have not actually bothered to respond to. It very clearly sets out my position and also revokes any permission for you or any representatives you employ to visit my home.

 

You should by now have contacted the Bank of Scotland to find out exactly why you have absolutely no legal rights or merit to any court action you may bring. If you have not done this despite the clear instructions set out in my previous letter then I would suggest you take the time to do your job lawfully and actually check details of the files you are sent rather than sending spurious threats of legal action and doorstep callers, neither of which you are at liberty to enforce.

 

Any further letters from you that do not simply inform me of your intention to close your files on me and return my information to the Bank of Scotland will be noted and filed but will not be responded to.

[lexis200]

How's this for the sols? I've not had the need or inclination to write anything other than a standard bog-off letter for a while, so if I've messed up on sections or protocols that I've quoted please please let me know!

 

 

I DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE ANY DEBT TO YOU OR ANY COMPANY

YOU CLAIM TO REPRESENT

 

I am in receipt of your letter dated 14th June.

 

Your threat of court action on behalf of your client Wescot does not have any merit. Wescot do not have any legal right to issue proceedings against me, given that the Bank of Scotland (BOS) does not hold a signed enforceable agreement relating to this account. They do hold an illegible application form, but it has absolutely no prescribed terms as required by section 60(1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 (CCA), and as such they, and any third party they see fit to instruct, are precluded from any court action under s127(3) of the CCA.

 

For your information, I sent a request under the Civil Procedure Rules, Practice Direction - Protocols paragraph 4.6(a) and (d)for sight of an enforceable agreement to Blair, Oliver and Scott in March 2009 after they sent a Notice of Intended Prosecution on this account on behalf of BOS. To date they have not responded to this. I have also not had sight of any supposed agreement despite requests under the CCA, a Subject Access Request and repeated letters from me.

 

In addition to this, in January 2009 BOS sent not one, but two default notices to me. Unfortunately among other things, they neglected to allow the required 14 days for remedy in either of these notices, and then went onto terminate the account. Due to the inadequacies within the default notice, the termination of this account based on this ineffective default notice is rendered unlawful and BOS relinquished their rights under section 87(1) to claim the outstanding balance. As such (if there was any enforceable agreement, which there is not), I would only be liable to pay the arrears stated on the default notice.

 

I have on more than one occasion spelled out the issues with this account to BOS and each of the DCA's they have chosen to harass me on an unenforceable, unlawfully terminated account. I include Wescot in this, so if they have not informed you of these issues may I suggest you clarify matters with both them and BOS.

 

If you choose to continue with this course of action, despite having no legal merit to any proceedings you may wish to bring, please inform me who I should send the request for provision of documents under CPR 31.14 which will allow me sight of exactly what documents you/Wescot/BOS are relying on for any court action.

 

I look forward to your prompt reply.

Edited June 16, 2010 by lexis200

[lexis200]

Hey Elsa:)

 

Thanks - I hope it works this time! Even if it doesn't I'm done with replying to them unless it's a proper claim form!

 

Hope you're all better now?

 

Lexis xx