Unenforceable Credit Card/Loan Agreements

[removalman]

Hello,

 

Are there any subscribers out there who have any experience of the suggested loopholes in the Consumer Credit Act that allow for debt to be written off and in some cases even refunds of past payments.

 

There are a number of firms offering this service (for quite hefty fees). Do they work? Is it a [problem]?

 

Tony.

[palomino]

The general consensus is that [a] they give no guarantees, and they don't do anything you couldn't do yourself after a little research.

 

The expression you use 'written off' is one that you probably won't find as such on their websites. The Consumer Credit Act (CCA) specifies a number of points that must be included in a credit agreement for the agreement to be compliant. In days gone by many lenders (banks, finance companies and credit card companies) issued agreements that did not properly comply with the CCA. These are not 'loopholes' in the Act but rather lenders not properly complying with it.

 

If an agreement is not compliant then it becomes unenforceable - the lender cannot enforce repayment through the court but you still owe the money. However, in practice any lender who cannot enforce repayment is going to write the debt off, if for no other reason than it is deductible for tax purposes.

 

In determining whether an agreement is compliant some lenders are able to convince the courts that any minor infractions are immaterial to the agreement as a whole. Hence it is a dangerous road to go down if you try and guarantee that any deficiency is enough for the agreement as a whole to be inadmissable in court. That's why these firms you refer to don't offer guarantees (other than they will take your money). It might be worth asking if they will work on commission.

[Hopster]

i have paid £495 to one of these firms, sent £1 etc for copy of agreement - default notice issued by credit card co. - expired last week and apparently I don't have to worry !! I just have to see what happens next.

[Hopster]

Tony. I am new to this consumer forum and have sent a reply to you. Do you have it ?

[removalman]

Hello Hopster,

 

Yes I got your reply - thanks very much.

 

Please keep me posted. I will be very interested to see how you get on.

 

I'm chatting to an organisation called Credit Clear. I'm very tempted...

 

Regards,

 

 

Tony.

[Hopster]

Credit clear. £495 for the first then £295 thereafter ? Is that the same firm ? Have you thought of asking them for a reference ? I will be most interested if you speak to a happy client of theirs. Let's keep in close touch.

[removalman]

They've just reduced their charges to £295.00 per case across the board. I asked if they could provide references but they pointed out that as they only really started in April, the cases they're dealing with are only now just starting to come to fruition. They also (correctly I assume) that data protection regs would prevent them from offering out their customer details etc.

 

Their website is slick and they appear professional. They have Ministry of Justice authorisation and OFT registration. They are very friendly on the phone.

 

The suggestion on these forums is that you could do it yourself. Anyone could do a CCA and get their agreement sent to them, however you really do need an expert to decide if the breaches are strong enough to force a lender into capitulation.

 

I've got several potential agreements that could benefit from scrutiny. May try them with one initially and see what happens.

 

Tony.

[Hopster]

Yes that's them. I have spoken to them. Why have they reduced their fees I wonder. They were definitely £495 for the first. I am trying out another firm and they are going to have to perform soon - default notice already expired - not to worry I am told. I will keep you posted. We could try out one together, absolutely in harness so to speak. What do you think ?

[removalman]

What firm are you trying out?

[Hopster]

I will tell you later but the c/c is Egg. I am lining up Halifax for them next - in fact I have already sent them the c/c agreement for which paid £1 (usual form)- but I have not paid them to take it further - yet. I have suggested that I pay them monthly in three parts and they do not seem averse to this. It is beginning to sound too easy and very cheap. Where are you ? I think that we might try one together and do it ourselves. We have the templates of the required letters and there seems to be help at hand here in the Forum. Which credit cards do you want looked at ?

[Hopster]

Anyone heard of Ethos Bank Credit Clear Services ?

[42man]

They have OFT registration ?

 

The Office of Fair Trading: Claims regulator and OFT issue consumer alert

 

I notice the link they give at the bottom of their main page is non existant...

[spottydog246]

spottydog246

 

Hi all,

I have been reading the post s about the loans and credit cards be unenfocreable and have some questions.

1 Iam on a debt management plan am i still able to chalange these loans/cc.

2.What are the time lenths involved with the requests.

3.If an agreement is wrong when do you stop paying for it.

4.Do i have inform the dmp company of what i am doing or will the companies do that.

5.Are there standard letters on the site that i could use.

would be extremely grateful for any help or advice that could be given to me as dmp is currently about 22 yrs

[chris2008a]

i have sent a CCA request to all on my creditors now. Only 1 replied with the original true signed copy (egg), a letter from moorcroft re lloyds tsb loan saying that they didn't have the agreement for me yet, and the accound is on hold, a prompt default letter from capital one, and nothing yet from the other 3. I sent off another letter yesterday to follow up... I am cancelling all my payments to them now... i got nothing to lose so....

 

I had heard of these companis before asking for £495 + 295 there after, and guessed that they may just be doing this....

[angel_1]

hiya guys

 

i had a leaflet drop these companies are popping up all over now, but be careful they charge upfront fees and its not guarranteed, i gave my leaflet to the trading standards team i visited to get them to view my cca id already requested myself, they were going to pass onto another team who are investigating these companies,

 

if the cca is enforceable, you will have paid that amount of money for what??//

 

i dont know up to you but im guessing depends how much you have on each account does it make it worth it?

 

im not too sure im going via the advice here and im already challenging all and got 3 to the fos for further clarification and complaint

 

take care ciao maz

[1066]

Good morning,

 

Might I add all you read here is true, if the loan, credit card or HP was before 06/04/07 then the chance the bank holds the originonal agreement is very slim. There are at least 33 million credit cards in circulation, how many people do the banks need to employ?

 

Deed of Assignmant is as discribed, debt is sold in bundles of 1000's do you think for one second the banks bother to complete the paper work.

 

Look at the rules on CCJ challenge everything!

 

One point though if you were sent a document how would you know if it was legal? I have seen documents dated 2009 claiming to be "origionals" you will need advice one firm who does supply legal advice in this area is Guardian/Credit issues, I suggest you Google their web site.

[gazab1968]

Help needed I am currently strugling financially and have reed info on unenforcable CCA i need help am in payment plans etc one company defaulted me others threatened it and with another one even though have been paying set amount every month by standing order and the amount now should be aprox 600 pounds the figure is actually double plus few pounds.

 

the companys in particuler are

1. Allience and Liecester loan for £9400 was charged interest on this and over £2000 ppi which i have never been able to claim stand at aprox £4000 have paid £50 per month.

 

2. Morgan stanley Card became goldfish now BC platinum orig credit card limit 2800 now down to about 2500 payment protection orig on card had this stoped years ago

 

3.Barclay Card Gold stood at over 4000 with charges ppi etc down to 2900 aprox pay £38 payment plan strugling mind have not paid yet this month.

 

4. Egg card 6000 or there abouts orig sold to CSL have paid this DCA upto 70 per month not paid last couple of months problems with cash flow...

 

5. Marbles card pay 12.50 p month fixed payment plan belive maxed out card £800 plus fees and charges reaced aprox £450 have paid this figure since March 2005 so will of paid in excess of £600 but balance stands at £1239 supposed to be intrest free no late charges etc company who have taken over marbles are investigating and they lost my last payment too

 

6 Capital 1 not bothered about this as owe less then £200 and this does come down lowest owed these in last 12 months was £10.00

 

I had load for goods years ago but paid this off and i did pay ppi which i could not use

 

 

Any help would be gratfully recived

[1066]

Please read above make contact with Guardian/Credit issues they will help or do it yourself.

[pdaddy]

hi all , am reading this thread withinterest.

 

iowe nationwide abpprox 10k on a loan.

if we sent off for this lette rand they fail to respond in the time limit, im confused to how the debt becomes un enforceable, yet we still owe them the money.

 

for clarifcations sake, and befor emyself and wife go for this...

 

if we do still owen them the money - where does this show up? would it still show on credit ref agenceies as an unpaid debt and we still owe £10k, but the bank cannot legally persue us through the courts, and we cannot have our home repososed or anything liek that? (or worse they put some judgement against our name worsending our credit score?)

 

so is it like a stalemate? we still owe them, but we stop payign them, they cannot peruse us, and essentially myself and wife are £297pm better off each month ; )

 

have i understood this correctly?

 

appreciate any feedback.

 

thanks

 

P

[Hopster]

I may be wrong and there areseriouslt better informed caggers on thisc site but I understand that the Consumer credit Act applies only to credit card debts and not loans and overdrafts. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.

[Mr Worried]

The general consensus is that [a] they give no guarantees, and they don't do anything you couldn't do yourself after a little research.

 

The expression you use 'written off' is one that you probably won't find as such on their websites. The Consumer Credit Act (CCA) specifies a number of points that must be included in a credit agreement for the agreement to be compliant. In days gone by many lenders (banks, finance companies and credit card companies) issued agreements that did not properly comply with the CCA. These are not 'loopholes' in the Act but rather lenders not properly complying with it.

 

If an agreement is not compliant then it becomes unenforceable - the lender cannot enforce repayment through the court but you still owe the money. However, in practice any lender who cannot enforce repayment is going to write the debt off, if for no other reason than it is deductible for tax purposes.

 

In determining whether an agreement is compliant some lenders are able to convince the courts that any minor infractions are immaterial to the agreement as a whole. Hence it is a dangerous road to go down if you try and guarantee that any deficiency is enough for the agreement as a whole to be inadmissable in court. That's why these firms you refer to don't offer guarantees (other than they will take your money). It might be worth asking if they will work on commission.

 

Hi

 

I refere to your 3rd paragraph in which I determine from your explanation the fact that the dca/oc will deem the debt unenforcable without an active/current cca? and although (we still owe the money) why would they write it of? why wouldnt they challenge their t+c's in court?.

However I do understand , but sometimes with all the crap agy's are sprouting some thing that is understood with the help from yourself and the other caggers is made difficult by others who'm seeemingly want our money to do what we can do?.

 

Thankyou

 

Mr W

[pdaddy]

thanks for the replies.

 

im still confused though, if i decide to stop paying my loan repayment because it is un enforcebale, then how can the bank then take me to court, how can the bank/lender convince the courts... if theyre not meant to be allowed to go there in the first place becuase its unenforcebale!

 

it seems a bit too good to be true imo.

 

im sure theres a rational explanation, but if someone could break it down into laymans terms for me id be most greatful.

 

also like to hear of anyone whos had any sucess in this department. is it common? our nationwide loan for 25k was taken out in 2005. have 10k left to pay. in these hard times and with 3 kids to feed i could do with freeing up our £300pm loan repayment to other household bills!

 

but what happens the this debt? if we still owe them and they cant chase us for it does it still show up on a credit search as 'outstanding/unpaid/not settled/in dispute'?

 

cheers

 

P

[1066]

I may be wrong and there areseriouslt better informed caggers on thisc site but I understand that the Consumer credit Act applies only to credit card debts and not loans and overdrafts. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.

 

It aplies to Credit cards, loans under £25,000 and HP. Overdrafts I suggest yout would need expert advice. But must have been taken out before 06/04/07. The older they are the better usually

[1066]

thanks for the replies.

 

im still confused though, if i decide to stop paying my loan repayment because it is un enforcebale, then how can the bank then take me to court, how can the bank/lender convince the courts... if theyre not meant to be allowed to go there in the first place becuase its unenforcebale!

 

it seems a bit too good to be true imo.

 

im sure theres a rational explanation, but if someone could break it down into laymans terms for me id be most greatful.

 

also like to hear of anyone whos had any sucess in this department. is it common? our nationwide loan for 25k was taken out in 2005. have 10k left to pay. in these hard times and with 3 kids to feed i could do with freeing up our £300pm loan repayment to other household bills!

 

but what happens the this debt? if we still owe them and they cant chase us for it does it still show up on a credit search as 'outstanding/unpaid/not settled/in dispute'?

 

cheers

 

P

Hi

 

Simple answer is yes, all teh questions you have can be answered, all in your favor. May I suggest you visit credit issues web site?

[pdaddy]

thanks for reply.

 

if our loan amount was for 25k, will we still qualify as its right on the threshold?