Being made bankrupt for mortgage debt.

[42man]

OK....did they indeed give you a stat demand on the 19th May ?....

 

Am I right in saying they got a CCJ against you back in April 2007 ?

 

Do you have any written record of their acceptance of the £3,000 you mentioned ?

[wwwdotcom]

Something happened in May. My memory is not very good.

 

It went to court and I knew nothing about it because I had not recieved anything.

 

Anyway, I got the judgement delivered to me at work but they spelt my name wrong and had my address wrong.

 

I rang the courts up and the clerk said he would note this and that the judgement would not stand because (I seem to remember) they are not allowed to get 2 major things wrong.

 

I have no record of the offer but they will have, the offer was made by them.

[42man]

OK....watch your email...I can't make any promises...

[wwwdotcom]

BIG DEVELOPMENT

 

Just recieved this from an email i sent yesterday

 

Without Prejudice

Dear sir

We refer to your email dated 9 September.

We are instructed by our client that they will accept the sum of £3000 plus the costs incurred in the court action to settle this debt.

Costs to date are £4397.00 made up as follows:

Solicitor’s costs

 

]£3,277.00[/font]

 

Court fee on petition[/font]

 

£605.00[/font]

 

Enquiry Agent/Process server’s fees[/font]

 

£300.00[/font]

 

Hearing agent fees[/font]

 

£175.00[/font]

 

Court fee on application notice[/font]

 

£40.00[/font]

 

Total due in settlement[/font]

 

[£7,397.00]

 

 

Your faithfully

[42man]

If you can afford it, take them up on the offer.....my feeling is this could be a big gamble to attempt to fight (although I suspect that the debt may be barred by statute - i.e. a gap of at least 12 years where you have neither paid towards or acknowledged the debt (despite your recent correspondence if there is a clear 12 year gap then it will definately be stat barred) but as you have a CCJ on this already (which was undisputed)....

[wwwdotcom]

If you can afford it, take them up on the offer.....my feeling is this could be a big gamble to attempt to fight (although I suspect that the debt may be barred by statute - i.e. a gap of at least 12 years where you have neither paid towards or acknowledged the debt (despite your recent correspondence if there is a clear 12 year gap then it will definately be stat barred) but as you have a CCJ on this already (which was undisputed)....

I will take them up on their offer.

 

My main question originally was why they were not negotiating.

 

This is a weight off my mind, thanks very much all for your help. Superb bunch of people.

 

Thanks

[blind-as-a-bat]

Funny that, there has been a lot of "Guests" watching this thread and now this

 

funny thing coincedences:rolleyes:

 

And if your happy with that WWW then i call that a result.

[Bona]

I agree I Think they have done things wrong if you can pay but carry on as if you need to go to court you may have to go and get an adjournment I have been through BR hearings just dont take anything for granted

[ukaviator]

Hi

 

If your mortgage was in joint names, you need to check what the other borrower has done. If they acknowledge the debt it doesn't affect you but if your ex wife has made a payment, the limitation period starts running again for both of you from the date the last payment was made.

 

Was there a CCJ issued way back then?

 

If there was, it has probably been sitting there dormant waiting. They would need to see a judge to get this re instated.

 

The first thing to do is to ask for a detailed breakdown of how they have worked out the amount they say you owe. This should allow you to check all the figures and give you a basis for deciding if the correct procedures have been followed.

 

You should ask for details of:

 

The exact sale price of the house

 

Details of any valuations made on the property

 

How they have calculated the interest that has been added on up to the time of the sale and since the sale.

 

And any solicitors, estate agency fees or court costs that have been added on.

 

You also need to check whether you had a Mortgage Indemnity Guarantee (MIG) on the house. This is an insurance that covers the mortgage lender against a loss. You would usually have paid it out as a lump sum when you first bought the house, or it could have been deducted from your mortgage advance at the time.

 

You need to check that your mortgage lender has made a claim on any insurance available. This could limit the amount you owe to the mortgage lender although the insurance company can ask you to pay back the amount they pay out to the mortgage lender. The insurance company sometimes asks the lender to collect their share for them. From 31st October 2004 your lender must inform you in writing if your mortgage shortfall debt may be pursued by another company.

 

Some people argue that the indemnity policy should cover the borrower for any shortfall as they paid for the insurance in the first place.

This is a complicated area of law .

 

Following a case Woolwich v Brown 1995 the Court of Appeal has decided that generally mortgage indemnity insurance only covers the lender and not the borrower.

 

Building societies have an obligation to find the " best price which can be reasonably obtained" whilst banks have a " duty of care" to a borrower. From 31st October 2004 the FSA mortgage rules say that all lenders must obtain the "best price that might reasonably be paid". It is possible to dispute the amount being claimed by the mortgage lender in some cases.

 

If you can show that the house was sold for substantially below the proper market price taking into account the market conditions at the time of sale.

 

If the house was not marketed sufficiently to obtain a good sale price.

 

If you arranged a sale which was refused by the lender, but after repossession the house was sold by the lender for a much lower price.

 

If the house stood empty for a very long time you may be able to argue that the mortgage company should have rented it out and therefore offset possible rental income against the shortfall balance.

 

If the lender decides to leave the house empty and not sell it either , then you may have an argument for asking the court to order a sale.

 

Point out that if they make you bankrupt , they will not get any of the debt back. Under bankruptcy rules your debt will be written off if there are no assets that can be sold. If the company can see there is no financial point in making you bankrupt they will usually decide not to.

 

So check:

 

How long is it since the time limit period started. If you think it is more than 12 years be very careful about acknowledging that you owe the money to the lender. You may no longer be liable.

 

If you are satisfied that you owe the money and the lender has contacted you within the correct time limit, then there are several ways you may be able to come to an agreement.

 

Make a pro-rata agreement - contact the lender, explain your circumstances and make them a reasonable offer of repayment on a monthly basis.

 

Offer a lump sum in full and final settlement. If lenders think this is a reasonable amount and that they are unlikely to receive any more by pursuing the matter further, i.e if you have no assets etc then they are often willing to consider a one off payment as an end to the matter. You must ensure that the lender has accepted this amount in “full and final settlement”. Always try to obtain this in writing.

 

If your circumstances are particularly extreme and there is no chance that they will improve, some lenders may also consider writing off the loan completely. Contact them and explain.

 

In some cases bankruptcy may be the only option, if the debt is more than £750. You could make yourself bankrupt and after the period of the bankruptcy (now only 12 months) the debt would be written off. However this is not something to be taken lightly and you should always seek further advice before considering this route. A lender is unlikely to make you bankrupt unless they think you have assets which would make it worthwhile.

 

Details of County Court Judgments (also known CCJs) are supplied by the county courts to The Registry Trust, an independent organisation established via the Department of Constitutional Affairs, who maintain the statutory public register of CCJs. The Registry Trust notifies us of all judgments, satisfactions and cancellations on a regular basis and we update our files accordingly.

 

If your comments earlier are all above board, then you should take them up on the offer.

 

Also, start suing your ex for half in the small claims court. . .

Edited September 10, 2008 by ukaviator

[Nightmare4banks]

wwwdotcom,

 

In reply to your post and in my view:

 

1.Make sure to get a breakdown of the debt is i.e. either using the Data Protection Act 1998 or get a court order for disclosure.

 

2.Countersue for negligence on the grounds that the lender failed to obtain the best price for the property at the time of sale.The lender has a duty and obligation to get the best price and the precedent case is

 

Skipton V Bratley & Stott

 

which you should mention in your defence.

 

If you succeed here,probably the judge will order that you and the lender obtain an expert witness/surveyor costs to be split on 50/50 basis to establish the correct value at the time.You could end up not owing the lender anything and the lender ending owing you.

 

3.Although you have admitted that you owe money,the exact amount in my view is as "CLEAR AS MUD" and this is why you go down the route that I have suggested.

 

4.Make sure that the lender has filed for your bankrupcy.I had a mate of mine who received a Statutory Demand and turned out that there were no bankrupcy papers filed at the court at all! Just a scare tactic!

 

5.One last thing you may get the claim against you wiped on the grounds that it is statute barred i.e. it is 12 years or more since you had made any payments.Again,the Data ProtectionAct/disclosure will clarify things here.

 

 

Anyway,I hope this helps.

 

If you have any more questions,please feel free to ask.

 

Keep us posted.

 

Al the best!

[wwwdotcom]

wwwdotcom,

 

In reply to your post and in my view:

 

1.Make sure to get a breakdown of the debt is i.e. either using the Data Protection Act 1998 or get a court order for disclosure.

 

2.Countersue for negligence on the grounds that the lender failed to obtain the best price for the property at the time of sale.The lender has a duty and obligation to get the best price and the precedent case is

 

Skipton V Bratley & Stott

 

which you should mention in your defence.

 

If you succeed here,probably the judge will order that you and the lender obtain an expert witness/surveyor costs to be split on 50/50 basis to establish the correct value at the time.You could end up not owing the lender anything and the lender ending owing you.

 

3.Although you have admitted that you owe money,the exact amount in my view is as "CLEAR AS MUD" and this is why you go down the route that I have suggested.

 

4.Make sure that the lender has filed for your bankrupcy.I had a mate of mine who received a Statutory Demand and turned out that there were no bankrupcy papers filed at the court at all! Just a scare tactic!

 

5.One last thing you may get the claim against you wiped on the grounds that it is statute barred i.e. it is 12 years or more since you had made any payments.Again,the Data ProtectionAct/disclosure will clarify things here.

 

 

Anyway,I hope this helps.

 

If you have any more questions,please feel free to ask.

 

Keep us posted.

 

Al the best!

 

Again, thanks to everyone for their help.

 

The money has been paid and it is a weight off my shoulders but I may do some of the things suggested on here. Does it matter that I have paid them out of desperation?

 

I do not feel the elapsed time of the debt applies to me because it is definately within 12 years.

 

A kind poster on Moneysavingexpert pointed out that Lloyds TSB agreed with the Council of Mortgage Lenders that they would not chase mortgage shortfall payments if the debtor could not be contacted within six years of the property being sold. This is without a doubt my scenario but the CML appears to have no means for consumers to air their grevancies.

 

I know it is a little cheeky but could someone condense the ways that I have a chance to get this money back.

 

Please help someone more needy than me but if you get time give me a pointer please.

 

The way I see it I need to find out how they sold my house and how they marketed it. They need to prove that my debt belongs to them. It was originally with C&G, do they need to show original documentation?

 

That type of thing.

[Nightmare4banks]

wwwdotcom,

 

In reply to your last post:

 

1.Please do as I previously suggested.

 

2.You have a right to know how the lender has reached the figure for the debt amount.

 

3.If I am correct - the twelve years starts from the last time you had paid anything towards the mortgage debt and not the date of repossession.

 

4.Forget the CML,this is a body that was created to serve the interests of its members - LENDERS ONLY!

 

5.C&G belongs to Lloyds so there is nothing to worry about here.

 

6.I would suggest that you use the 10 point list undrr the Data Protection Act that 42man has already put in his post.Send this list with a 10 pound postal order together with a copy of your id i.e. passport/driving licence and proof of address i.e.utility bill by recorded delivery post.

 

If you have any questions,please feel free to ask.

 

Keep us posted.

 

All the best!