Red Castle...Let Battle Commence - HELP!!!!!!

[Luxxinterior]

Good Morning,

I have been paying Red Castle Recoveries for the past 4 yrs a debt i had taken out with the Bank of Ireland before I moved to the UK. I have never signed anything with them, just received a call telling me that they had been appointed by the BOI to collect, and I never questioned it.

 

Now I have CCA'd them, with a nice letter telling them I am happy to continue paying them once they can verify they own the debt. I stopped payment in the meantime, and just received a call from them.

 

The kind agent told me that I cannot withold payment...perhaps I was a bit too hasty in witholding, but how and ever...its done now!

 

She reminded me that I am a home owner as if that meant something, I told her I have nothing secured against my home with Red Castle. She responded that there is no such thing as an unsecured loan when you are a home owner????

I was also threatened with their legal team... I said I would be happy to deal with them!

 

I told her that when I receive the CCA from BOI I would continue payments and not until then.

 

Should I make this months installment?

Should I be asking for other documents to prove they own the debt?

 

Now battle has commenced I could really do with some help.

 

Thanks

[IdaInFife]

Hiya,

 

If you sent your cca request over 14 days ago them you are within your rights to withhold payment and the account is in dispute until tehy provide a valid cca. It's a bad idea calling them as they just try to bully and scare you which obvioulsy they have or you wouldn't be questioning yourself!

 

 

 

Ida x

[IdaInFife]

forgot to add

 

 

is this for a bank account or credit card/loan?

 

 

Idax

[Luxxinterior]

Hi This is for a loan taken out in Ireland 5 yrs ago. It was too difficult making payments from here so we decided to move it local. They rang me by the way.

 

As I said I may have been a bit hasty, they are still within the 14 days

 

I am dealing also with a similar issue with the HSBC at the moment... I am weary from battle... I have not had to do this with a DCA before.

[Luxxinterior]

I just spoke to the bank directly back in Ireland... I need to verify this, but their records may not go back that far Am I correct in thinking that the original CCA would need to be produced in a Court? Surely a copy would not suffice?

[42man]

In the first instance, and if it was me in your shoes, I would send a Subject Access Request to the RBI (this will give you full disclosure)....this will cost you £10 (send postal order - and send it by recorded/guaranteed delivery) stop speaking to Red Castle as they have broken the guidelines on debt collection....

 

This is the SAR to send to RBI...

 

Data Protection Act 1998

 

Subject Access Request

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: xxxxxxxxx (or multiple numbers if more than one account)

 

Please supply me with all data that you hold on me. This includes in particular, but is not limited to, the following:-

 

1. The original signed, executed credit agreement and any terms and conditions that applied to the account at the time of default and at the time the account was opened.

2. Transcriptions of all telephone conversations recorded and any notes made in relation to telephone conversations by your company, or by any previous creditor

3. Where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my account formerly held with ORIGINAL CREDITOR.

4. True copies of any notice of assignment and/or default notice or enforcement notice that you or the original creditor sent me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

5. Documents relating to any insurance added to the account, including the insurance contract and terms and conditions, date it was added and deleted (if applicable).

6. Details of any collection charges added to the account; specifically, the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was calculated, and what the charge covers.

7. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of this account and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.

8. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998

9. A list of third party agencies to whom you have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

10. Copies of statements for the entire duration of the credit agreement.

 

I enclose the statutory maximum fee of £10. You have 40 days in which to comply.

If there is specific information which you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity, please let me know by return. However, please note that the above address is the one which you normally use to communicate my private business to me and which you have hitherto found to be acceptable.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

print but don't sign your name

 

With regard to Red Castle (part of Gothia )....if they continue to call you, then send them this letter (again by recorded delivery)

 

If after sending you this letter they continue to call you then write down ALL the dates and times they call you...

 

Your Street

Town

City

Postcode

DATE HERE

Company Name

Road

Town

City / County

Postcode

 

Re: Harassment by telephone

 

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: XXXXXXX

 

Dear Sirs

 

I am writing in relation to the quantity and frequency of telephone calls that I have received from your company, which I deem to be personally harassing.

 

I have verbally requested that these stop, but I am still receiving calls. (Delete if necessary)

 

I now require all further correspondence from your company to be made in writing only.

 

I am of the view that your continued harassment of me by telephone puts you in breach of Section 40 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970, and the Protection from Harassment Act 1997.

 

If you continue to harass me by telephone, you will also be in breach of the Communications Act (2003) s.127 and I will report you to, FOS, OFCOM, Trading Standards and The Office of Fair Trading, meaning that you will be liable to a substantial fine.

 

Be advised that any further telephone calls from your company will be recorded.

 

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

 

[NAME HERE]

.

[Luxxinterior]

Thanks for that... It was their first call in fairness, so have they breached by threatening me? I am not sure how they have broken the guidelines. Also Im not sure if these laws apply in ireland...bit of a mess really lol

 

I will look into this requests effectiveness in Ireland...any more calls from Red Castle and I will be telling them to deal with me in writing.

 

Cheers

[Luxxinterior]

Just spoke to someone in the lending dept in the bank of Ireland...I have asked them for a copy of my agreement. I rang them just mainly to see if they keep records that long. Red Castle have told me that they have sent the request to BOI too, which indicates that they dont have one in the first instance.

 

The BOI told me that if they have it, it will be in storage and may take a few days to find. Fair enough I guess!! They never mentioned that Red Castle have requested a copy...maybe they would not, i don't know.

 

Does anyone know if a foreign Debt can be pursued in the UK in the first place?? If they produce the agreement, can they still pursue it through a UK DCA???

 

Any thoughts would be welcome.

[Luxxinterior]

Can someone tell me what happens if these guys produce a valid CCA??

 

Do they still have to enforce it through court as they have failed to comply with the cca request in time??

 

Or Would I just have to pay it regardless??

[Luxxinterior]

CCA received and it looks good lol. Can a foreign Debt be enforced in the UK?? My agreement was arranged in Ireland and surely falls under Irish Consumer Credit Law... Can an English Court enforce an Irish Agreement?

 

Anyone with anyone ideas? I have read both Acts, English and Irish, but of course there is no act which covers this event to my knowledge.

 

Also, this may be clutching at straws, but now they have proven they have a copy of the agreement, can I insist they prove how they came across it? Without a Notice of Assignment surely they could be fraudulently extorting money from me?

[42man]

Is the agreement compliant ? does it contain the prescribed terms ?..

[Luxxinterior]

It would appear so... although I am not familiar with Irish requirements yet.. I just dont know who can enforce this?

[42man]

I know there is one cagger who I believe is from Ireland....his name is Scarlet Pimpernel, it might be worth sending him a PM, but rather than asking the questions, sned him a link to your thread.....he is very knowledgable too...

[Luxxinterior]

Excellent, Thank you for your help.

[ScarletPimpernel]

Seen.

 

I am based in Northern Ireland. I'll have a look at this in more detail, and see if I can add anything.

[Luxxinterior]

Seen.

 

I am based in Northern Ireland. I'll have a look at this in more detail, and see if I can add anything.

 

Wow...I have not even had a chance to ask you yet lol!!! I would be very grateful if you could, any advice would be greatly appreciated

[ScarletPimpernel]

Just in after taking almost two hours to get 22 miles!

 

Luxx, a couple of questions:

 

- are you an Irish citizen living in UK, or a UK citizen, or dual nationality?

- do you still have an address/own property in ROI?

- can you confirm whether Red Castle said that they own or have been assigned the debt, or are they acting on behalf of BOI?

 

 

In the meantime, you should not speak to either BOI or (especially) Red Castle on the phone - DCAs have a habit of lying on the phone, as already demonstrated by Red Castle's risible attempt to mislead you into thinking that you can't withold payment. Keep everything in writing - not only does this provide an evidential paper trail, it also gives you time to think and respond. If they call again, refuse to answer any 'security' questions, and tell them you'll only communicate in writing.

 

As far as the legal situation is concerned, it would be helpful to have sight of the agreement (with personal details removed). Can you scan it and post it here.

 

In my view, it's clear that anyone pursuing consumer debt in the UK must have a consumer credit licence, and must comply with OFT Guidance and all other relevant legislation. Can an Irish creditor enforce an Irish debt in a UK court? To an extent, that will depend upon the agreement - there should be a paragraph that states which jurisdiction applies. This is not absolutely conclusive, but it's a start. There is European legislation that allows a judgement from one EU country to be enforced in another EU country's courts. However, this appears to be an expensive and complicated process, so not something to be too worried about just yet.

 

It's worth remembering that all DCAs use 'one size fits all' template letters - and this may be their undoing.

[Luxxinterior]

Just in after taking almost two hours to get 22 miles!

 

Luxx, a couple of questions:

 

- are you an Irish citizen living in UK, or a UK citizen, or dual nationality?

- do you still have an address/own property in ROI?

- can you confirm whether Red Castle said that they own or have been assigned the debt, or are they acting on behalf of BOI?

 

 

In the meantime, you should not speak to either BOI or (especially) Red Castle on the phone - DCAs have a habit of lying on the phone, as already demonstrated by Red Castle's risible attempt to mislead you into thinking that you can't withold payment. Keep everything in writing - not only does this provide an evidential paper trail, it also gives you time to think and respond. If they call again, refuse to answer any 'security' questions, and tell them you'll only communicate in writing.

 

As far as the legal situation is concerned, it would be helpful to have sight of the agreement (with personal details removed). Can you scan it and post it here.

 

In my view, it's clear that anyone pursuing consumer debt in the UK must have a consumer credit licence, and must comply with OFT Guidance and all other relevant legislation. Can an Irish creditor enforce an Irish debt in a UK court? To an extent, that will depend upon the agreement - there should be a paragraph that states which jurisdiction applies. This is not absolutely conclusive, but it's a start. There is European legislation that allows a judgement from one EU country to be enforced in another EU country's courts. However, this appears to be an expensive and complicated process, so not something to be too worried about just yet.

 

It's worth remembering that all DCAs use 'one size fits all' template letters - and this may be their undoing.

 

Hi Scarlet,

I will upload a scanned copy later..

In Response to your questions....

- are you an Irish citizen living in UK, or a UK citizen, or dual nationality?

I am Irish Citizen Living in UK

- do you still have an address/own property in ROI?

I no longer have an address in ROI, The BOI would be aware of previous addresses.

- can you confirm whether Red Castle said that they own or have been assigned the debt, or are they acting on behalf of BOI?

To my knowledge, I have never received anything in Writing to confirm either way. I only remember a phone call....I was so stupid...lol.

I will get the scanned copy on here ASAP.

Thanks again for taking a look

[Luxxinterior]

Just in after taking almost two hours to get 22 miles!

 

Luxx, a couple of questions:

 

- are you an Irish citizen living in UK, or a UK citizen, or dual nationality?

- do you still have an address/own property in ROI?

- can you confirm whether Red Castle said that they own or have been assigned the debt, or are they acting on behalf of BOI?

 

 

In the meantime, you should not speak to either BOI or (especially) Red Castle on the phone - DCAs have a habit of lying on the phone, as already demonstrated by Red Castle's risible attempt to mislead you into thinking that you can't withold payment. Keep everything in writing - not only does this provide an evidential paper trail, it also gives you time to think and respond. If they call again, refuse to answer any 'security' questions, and tell them you'll only communicate in writing.

 

As far as the legal situation is concerned, it would be helpful to have sight of the agreement (with personal details removed). Can you scan it and post it here.

 

In my view, it's clear that anyone pursuing consumer debt in the UK must have a consumer credit licence, and must comply with OFT Guidance and all other relevant legislation. Can an Irish creditor enforce an Irish debt in a UK court? To an extent, that will depend upon the agreement - there should be a paragraph that states which jurisdiction applies. This is not absolutely conclusive, but it's a start. There is European legislation that allows a judgement from one EU country to be enforced in another EU country's courts. However, this appears to be an expensive and complicated process, so not something to be too worried about just yet.

 

It's worth remembering that all DCAs use 'one size fits all' template letters - and this may be their undoing.

 

 

Hi...Agreement Uploaded...

Edited October 14, 2008 by Luxxinterior

[ScarletPimpernel]

I've had a look at the agreement, which appears to be compliant with the Consumer Credit Act 1995 - which is ROI law. I don't see how it can be enforced in a UK court, as any claim would fail because the agreement doesn't comply with the CCA 1974.

 

I can't see how a debt from ROI could be enforced here, because that would require a judgement from an Irish court first - and they can't get that because you are outside the jurisdiction.

 

I think at the moment the best thing to do will be to wait until something appears in writing, and then come back here. In the meantime, don't speak to either BOI or any DCA on the phone.

 

By the way, your name is visible on the scanned agreement - you may want to edit it.

Edited October 14, 2008 by ScarletPimpernel

[Luxxinterior]

I've had a look at the agreement, which appears to be compliant with the Consumer Credit Act 1995 - which is ROI law. I don't see how it can be enforced in a UK court, as any claim would fail because the agreement doesn't comply with the CCA 1974.

 

I can't see how a debt from ROI could be enforced here, because that would require a judgement from an Irish court first - and they can't get that because you are outside the jurisdiction.

 

I think at the moment the best thing to do will be to wait until something appears in writing, and then come back here. In the meantime, don't speak to either BOI or any DCA on the phone.

 

By the way, your name is visible on the scanned agreement - you may want to edit it.

 

Thank you for taking the time...i really appreciate it

if you do not mind I have a couple of questions...

a) could the BOI act on this?? could it mean I could not get off a plane in Dublin without being arrested?

 

b) what would happen with the DCA?? i have received the usual crap.. home visits, please contact us to arrange payments etc.. lots of letters in fact....what would their next step be? Would they dare to try court here?

 

c) I did pre-empt the CCA by asking the BOI directly for it before Red Castle supplied it... i received a note with the CCA from BOI saying any further queries, please speak to our agents Gothia (Red Castle)... Does this mean they are acting on their behalf?? and does this make any difference???

 

Sorry to hassle you, but you may be the missing link lol... between english and Irish Law.

 

Most Grateful

Edited October 14, 2008 by Luxxinterior

[havinastella]

Lux

 

Your name and details pop up before the 'confidential' covers them.

 

JOgs

[Luxxinterior]

Lux

 

Your name and details pop up before the 'confidential' covers them.

 

JOgs

 

 

Thanks...I will take it down now

[Luxxinterior]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/156401-hsbc-agreement-illegible-unsigned.html

 

If anyone cares to take a look at this thread too... this is the big one... me against HSBC...Would really appreciate any advice. It is with the FOS now, but Iam get 10-15 calls per day from them

[ScarletPimpernel]

a) could the BOI act on this?? could it mean I could not get off a plane in Dublin without being arrested?

 

As far as I am aware, debt is a civil, not a criminal matter in ROI, so you couldn't be arrested. The ROI rules are much stricter, so I doubt they'd try anything.

 

b) what would happen with the DCA?? i have received the usual crap.. home visits, please contact us to arrange payments etc.. lots of letters in fact....what would their next step be? Would they dare to try court here?

 

They are usually full of pish and wind - lots of threats but no action. It's not unknown for DCAs to go to court in the hope of getting a default (i.e. undefended) judgment - so keep your eyes open. In addition, most of them a) use automated systems and b) generally employ halfwits, who just follow the well worn path. I suspect that they may not be aware that there's a difference between ROI and UK agreements.

 

c) I did pre-empt the CCA by asking the BOI directly for it before Red Castle supplied it... i received a note with the CCA from BOI saying any further queries, please speak to our agents Gothia (Red Castle)... Does this mean they are acting on their behalf?? and does this make any difference???

 

It seems that Gothia/Red Castle are just acting on BOI's behalf. The main difference it makes is that Red Castle can't take you to Court - it has to be the creditor. It also means that when Red Castle fail, they'll pass it on to someone else. Ultimately it could be sold, but none of that affects the jurisdiction of the agreement.

 

Sorry to hassle you, but you may be the missing link lol... between english and Irish Law.

 

Most Grateful

 

You're very welcome.