Sacked - Appeal Y/N ???

[simon4amiee]

Was just told a few mins ago that the wife has been sacked, will look at her letter when she gets it, but there were circumstances around it which led to her eventual sacking.

 

We have been trying for a baby for 3-4 years now and had 3 miscarriages, as a result we were both sent for extensive tests which were due a week or 2 ago, we then got a letter saying it had been put back till october. As a result in her lunch break the wife rang the hospital but was passed from pillar to post, thus going ten mins into her working time by 10 mins. She was ordered into an office and given a verbal warning (no written record received of this). As such I looked at her greivance procedure and mentioned the above an a greivance letter to the company, they then withdrew the verbal warning after a meeting to discuss the greivance, stating they understood her situation and noted that for safety reasons she should not use her phone ahile in working hours.

 

However because she had just been told off, and being in the frame of mind that we are desperate to get our results on the tests she snapped and refused to do as her supervisor who had just given her a verbal and refused to carry out a task, stating she was a team player and needed to help tidy one area before moving to the next, thus the misconduct charge 'Refusal to carry out reasonable management instructions and serious insubordination'

 

I will always stick by my wife we have had it hard for 3 years and what doesnt kill us makes us stronger, its just i dont see how she could appeal to get her job back, or to get a current job in todays economical climate especially as she was sacked!!

 

The company have even said they will give her very good references as she has been a very good employee, even getting a promotion in her 3-4 years there. But had to let her go because someone else was also let go a few days before for the same reason!

[simon4amiee]

also I dont feel the greivance procedure was followed correctly and it does relate to the actual dismissal, although the greivance was overturned (verbal warning) she had no written confirmation of the verbal warning, or the final desicion from the meeting held regarding the verbal warning!

[elche]

How long had she worked there?

[simon4amiee]

to follow the rest in complete detail!

[simon4amiee]

to follow the rest in complete detail!

[simon4amiee]

Over 3 years, I have only till tomorrow to appeal; there are a number of issues I think having read through the procedures and letters.

 

They mention recent disciplinary meeting where she had a verbal warning for using a phone in works time, however she received no such letter in writing stating she had had a verbal warning, she put in a grievance and the verbal was overturned due to the circumstances.

 

They mention past insubordination which happed in July 2006, which I'm sure she was on a year final warning, this time came and went yet was still mentioned.

 

She failed in the original meeting to out her point accords, she isn’t the brightest of sparks bless her, so I am writing an appeal based on the circumstances surrounding her dismissal.

 

Firstly her frame of mind at the time, we had been waiting 3-4 months for test results back from the doctors, and on Monday 11th August we received a letter saying the appointment was now put back to late October, as we have had 3 pregnancies and 3 miscarriages, we both had intensive testing done on our bloods/chromosomes etc, and we were very keen to know if anything was abnormal. My wife rang the hospital during her lunch break (12.30-1.00pm) on 11th August 2008, due to being passed to person to person (she had it on loud speaker with witnesses), the phone call went 10 mins into her working hours (1.10pm). At 1.11pm she was called into an office on told she was going to be given an official verbal warning for using her phone in work time and coming back from lunch late, my wife tried to explain but fell on deaf ears (no written confirmation of the verbal warning was ever received).

 

As a result at 1.20pm on resumption of her work she was then ordered to another part of the production line by her supervisor who had just given her the verbal. My wife argued that as line leader it was her job to help other to clear their area before moving on, the supervisor asked her again to stop what she was doing and move to another part of the production line which my wife refused.

 

the next day 12th August 2008, my wife sent a letter of grievance into the company regarding the verbal warning, explaining her reasons, and the fact it has never happened before in 3-4 years, and that any time lost she would be more than willing to make up.

 

On Monday 18th August she received a letter asking her to attend a grievance appeal meeting on Thursday 21st August @ 10.30am, to which she attended. The meeting I told went well and the Verbal Warning was rescinded due to the circumstances, and she was just told that using a phone in works time is a health and safety issue and she should restrict her time on it to her breaks.

 

Also on Monday 18th August 2008, she received another letter which was 'Notice of disciplinary Meeting, which said she had to attend on Thursday 21stAugust @ 4.00pm stating 'As you will be aware from our discussion on 18 August 2008 it is alleged that you refused to carry out reasonable management instructions which is viewed by the Company to be Gross Misconduct. As this is considered a gross misconduct offence and if found to be so at your disciplinary hearing it could result in dismissal. As this is a formal disciplinary meeting, you may be accompanied by a work colleague or a Trade Union Official. To assist you prepare for the meeting, I enclose a copy of the Company's Disciplinary Procedure'

 

During this time my wife was not suspended and continued to work, on 21st August 2008, she attended the meeting with a witness, she admitted and accepted she refused to carry out a supervisors orders, but didn’t really get across why she did so due to her angry and upset frame of mind at the time. She was told verbally she would get a reply the following day.

 

On 22nd August she was then told they hadn’t come to a decision and that she would have to waiting until after the bank holiday Tuesday 26th August 2008.

 

On Tuesday 26th August 2008, she received her answer and the letter stating the following.

 

'Further to the Disciplinary hearing on Thursday 21 august 2008 which was attended by you, myself in my capacity as production manager, Kay Briggs minute taker - (who happens to be her supervisor in question), I am writing to regrettably confirm your summary dismissal from the company.

 

The purpose of the above hearing was to give you an opportunity to provide a satisfactory explanation form the following area of misconduct which the Company considered to be the gravest and utmost severity.

- Serious insubordination

- Failure to carry out reasonable management instructions

At the hearing you said that you failed to carry out the instruction, that was asked of you several times, which was to move to another filling line to assist in the preparation of an urgent order, on the grounds that you wished to remain on the line and clear the mess that had been made. You have confirmed during the meeting that you are ware that such action could be construed as Gross misconduct.

After careful consideration I find your explanation wholly unacceptable because irrespective of the duties you felt you needed to perform, there was a much more pressing need to attend the urgent production of the Ready Mixed Adhesive that your supervisor had been asked to prepare. Without your assistance this order there was a potential for it to be delayed. It is up to the supervisor to prioritize the production cycle not you.

Your failure to Co-operate, and indeed the manner of your refusal, caused inconvenience and other, less able staff then had to be used instead. With you previous experience of failing to acknowledge and undertake instruction that led to disciplinary action being taken against you, would have suggested that you disobeyed these instructions knowing that it could lead to further disciplinary action. With your previous history of insubordination as stated above I am unconvinced that similar issues will not reoccur in the future.

Furthermore, I find you actions amount to gross misconduct. As we have had a similar but unrelated incident within the company recently that led to dismissal we have to remain consistent and as a consequence. Therefore, I have no alternative but to summarily dismiss you from the company. This means that you are not entitled to notice or pay in lieu of notice.

Your date of dismissal is, therefore 26th August 2008. Your P45 and any monies owing to you including holiday pay and outstanding wages will be forwarded to your home address.

Finally you have the right to appeal against you Dismissal. If you wish to exercise this right, you should write to XXXXXXX, Managing Director, within 3 working days stating your reasons for such an appeal.

[simon4amiee]

This is my 1st attempt of a letter of appeal, advice please!

 

 

 

Dear XXXXXX,

 

 

I am writing to tell you that I wish to appeal against the decision of dismissal made on 26th August 2008 provided to me in your letter on 26th August 2008.

 

 

This action is being considered with regard to the following circumstances:

 

 

You state ‘failure to carry out reasonable management instructions’, this I feel was unreasonable having just been involved in disciplinary hearing with the Supervisor asking me to carry out these instructions. I received no time to prepare or was ever notified in writing, I had just received an official verbal warning and as such my refusal being brought on by the stress of earlier disciplinary action & grievance, and that in the light of my previous work record the belief that the sanction of dismissal was disproportionate.

 

 

You mention ‘serious insubordination’, which wasn’t mentioned in the original letter of Notice of Disciplinary Meeting, also an act of insubordination that has caused only an 'inconvenience' is not severe enough to warrant summary dismissal - the normal phrase you would see as a definition of Gross Misconduct would be a 'persistent' failure to follow reasonable management instructions.

 

 

The Company relies on a recinded (and unrelated) verbal warning and an 'expired' warning.

 

No details are given of the other Gross Misconduct dismissal so there is no evidence that the Company is acting 'consistently'

 

 

I would like to request all correspondence and notes on my permanent record to the purposes of this appeal.

 

 

I am entitled to a hearing to discuss this matter; also I am entitled, if I wish, to be accompanied by another work colleague or my trade union representative.

 

 

Please reply within (not more than 28 if subject to UK law) days of the date of this letter.

 

 

Yours sincerely

[simon4amiee]

When my wife has an appeal hearing is she allowed to record it anstead of getting spmeone to take notes!

[simon4amiee]

quality, after sending the appeal request letter (above) the company swnt in writing her greivance decision to withdraw the verbal warning, we will be keeping the letter as it is date suspiciously 26th August, the date she was told she was sacked (she got THAT letter), but yet was posted on the 29th August 2 days after receiveing the appeal letter saying she hadnt received notification in writing of the appeal!

[simon4amiee]

The wifes appeal was upheld, and the dismissal changed to a final written warning, she is reinstated on full pay up to today, thanks for all the help on here, I think because the company knew this would end up at a tribunal and knowing they had not followed correct procedure they have back tracked quicker than mr bolt on speed!

[letshelp]

Good result Simon,

Hope you and your wife can put this matter behind you and move on.

regards

[elche]

Nice to see a good result for once. Hope they don't start trying to manage her out now.

 

Any suggestion of any funny business and she should begin to keep a diary of events. Well done!

[steffyloulou]

iI am hearing of a lot of cases lately where people are being sacked for the most petty and pathetic reasons. without the standard written and then verbal warning.

 

Are companies trying to do this as a way of cutting back on staff due to the current economic climate, and as a way of avoiding paying the necessary notice pay / pay in lieu of notice, and some cases even redundancy?

 

I know someone that was instantly sacked the other day for having a cigarette - outside and off the premises!!!

 

no warning or anything!!

[adnaan23]

Hi there!

I am going through same type of situation with my company, they have taken my IDs and verbally suspended me for more than 10 days, and told me wait for disciplinary letter which havent come yet, but if they send me letter, in which I been sacked, what I should be doing, all this happened because of one customer I signed, after month he lied to my company & said he didnt sign any paper, his dob is wrong, phone no. is wrong, I am totally shocked about it, its only Domestic Gas electric Contract, which he could have cancel it without complaining and without telling lie.

if my company sacks me on these ground what's the possible way to appeal against their decision, because they haven't given me any letter yet,

please advise.

thanks

[tiglet]

Bump