Section 127 meaning?

[Sparkie1723]

© F A R Bennion Website: Francis Bennion -

 

Doc. No. 2003.061 JPN008L 167 JPN (2003) 773

 

Any footnotes are shown at the bottom of each page

 

Consumer Credit Act 1974 s 127(3)

 

As the draftsman of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 I would like to thank Dr Richard Lawson

 

for his interesting and well-argued article (30 August 2003) on Wilson v First County Trust

 

Ltd [2003] UKHL 40, [2003] 4 All ER 97.

 

Dr Lawson may be interested to know that I included the provision in question (section

 

127(3)) entirely on my own initiative. It seemed right to me that if the creditor company couldn’t be bothered to ensure that all the prescribed particulars were accurately included in the credit agreement it deserved to find it unenforceable, and that the court should not have power to relieve it from this penalty. Nobody queried this, and it went through Parliament

without debate. I’m glad the House of Lords has now vindicated my reasoning and confirmed that nobody’s human rights were infringed.

 

 

 

 

I may cause a few eyebrows to lift, but I am posting a copy of a CCA agreement that section 127 actually refers to, and what it actually means.

I believe it means that the executed agreement should contain ALL the original term and conditions in its whole entirety itself not in a separate document.

 

I post below what I consider a CCA that complys with all the regs and Act.

This I believe is one of the very few CCA agreements that is completely lawfull and cannot be fought very easy ...its a good one.

 

You will see that page 1 contains all the financial particulars ...properly formatted.

pages 2 & 3 contain all the terms and conditions.

 

Page 4 contains the signature boxes etc etc etc.,

 

This means that you sign the full agreement at the very end, and that all the terms and conditions are embodied in the actual agreement. .....You can't say you never read them or anything as all the signatures are at the end of the agreement and not on the first page.

 

I argue that this is how all CCA agreements must be formatted like, if they don't I don't think they are lawful.

 

I think this agreement can be used to show that any agreement that is not in this format is most likely UNLAWFULL and does not fully conform to the CCA or Regs.

 

I know its a HP agreement but it is a CCA agreement, its the layout that matters.

I think this is what Francis Bennion was trying to say.

 

Comments anyone

 

sparkie

 

 

 

Page 2 terms & conditions

 

Page 3 More terms & conditions

 

Haven't posted those to save space, but they are spot on.

 

Edited August 13, 2008 by Sparkie1723

[Guest Old_andrew2018]

Bump

[Sparkie1723]

B e f o r e :

 

LORD JUSTICE WALLER

VICE PRESIDENT OF THE COURT OF APPEAL

CIVIL DIVISION

LORD JUSTICE TUCKEY

and

LORD JUSTICE JACOB

____________________

 

Between:

WILSON & ANR.

Defendants/

Appellants

 

- and -

 

 

HURSTANGER LTD

Claimant/

Respondent

 

 

 

 

Schedule 1 to the 1983 Regulations sets out the "information to be contained in documents embodying regulated consumer credit agreements". Some of this information mirrors the terms prescribed by schedule 6, but some does not. Contrasting the provisions of the two schedules the Judge said:

 

33. In my judgment the objective of Schedule 6 is to ensure that, as an inflexible condition of enforceability, certain basic minimum terms are included which the parties (with the benefit of legal advice if necessary) and/or the court can identify within the four corners of the agreement. Those minimum provisions combined with the requirement under section 61 that all the terms should be in a single document, and backed up by the provisions of section 127 (3), ensure that these core terms are expressly set out in the agreement itself: they cannot be orally agreed; they cannot be found in another document; they cannot be implied; and above all they cannot be in the slightest mis-stated. As a matter of policy, the lender is denied any room for manoeuvre in respect of them. On the other hand, they are basic provisions, and the only question for the court is whether they are, on a true construction, included in the agreement. More detailed requirements, which are designed to ensure that the debtor is made aware, so far as possible, of specified information (including information contained in the minimum terms) are to be found in Schedule 1.

The discretionary power under section 65 (1) to order enforcement of an agreement which does not comply with schedule 1 may be exercised on terms discharging the debtor from having to pay any sum payable under the agreement (section 127 (2)).

 

This ruling reinforces the Wilson ruling and members should consider these two together when they take action against Banks when the bank just present an application form and try to pass it off as a CCA agreement.

 

sparkie

Edited August 16, 2008 by Sparkie1723

[Undercover-Elsa]

Subbing for reference. Great stuff Sparkie1723.

I'm researching my own loan agreement's enforceability, my main issues with what the bank sent in response to my CCA request being:

No total amount repayable figure given

No total amount of interest payable given

No "Right to Cancel" statement

Most Terms and Conditions are on 3 seperate pages and the copy I was sent of these seperate T&C's.

The copy sent was photocopied at half size therefore hard to read without magnifying.

No statement of account was sent.

 

I'm currently researching as much as I can about enforceability. Any comments most appreciated as my main thread on this has dried up.

Many thanks

Elsa x

Edited July 28, 2010 by Undercover-Elsa

[patrickq1]

thanks for this sparkie,i am unfortunitely unable to absorb any more than a page at a time then i get lost and find myself reading the same parts over and over again ,all this is due to illness of my main arteries have shrunk and my brain is not getting enough oxygen to to help me absrb info,this is why i ask that someone goes to my thread and looks at the two agreements and tells me are they legal cca compliant agreements....

patrickq

1http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/123193-patrickq1-hfo-morgan-stanley.html