Three in a bed Argos, Next and Moorcroft Advice/opinion on letter to Moorcroft

[blind-as-a-bat]

Ok im trying to come up with a reply to Moorcroft this is what ive got so far, most of it is from template letters from posters so credit and thanks too them, but im not sure on my interpretation of Section 175 CCA 1974:

 

Am i anywhere near or have i got that bit all wrong? any input greatfully recieved

 

 

Ps if im to believe the litigation threat then this should have already been sent so no pressure:eek:

 

 

Dear Sir/Madame

 

I am writing in reference to TWO alleged debts you claim to acting as agents for.

 

The first is alleged to be with Argos Ref: - xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Your Ref: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

A request for a CCA for this was sent to you on the xxth April 2008 by recorded delivery, for which I have proof of delivery signed for on the xxth April 2008, which equates to xx days at the time of writing.

 

You are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before you enter into a default situation.

 

If that request is not satisfied after a further 30 calendar days you commit a summary criminal offence.

 

These limits have expired.

 

As you are no doubt aware section 77(6) states:

 

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)

 

(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.

 

And

 

(b) If the default continues for one month he commits an offence.

 

However the contents of your correspondence dated xxnd xxx 2008 ( see copy A enclosed) are noted but I regret to inform you that as you are claiming to be acting as agent for Argos the following section of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 applies

 

Section 175 CCA 1974:

 

"175. Duty of persons deemed to be agents.

Where under this Act a person is deemed to receive a notice or payment as agent of the creditor or owner under a regulated agreement, he shall be deemed to be under a contractual duty to the creditor or owner to transmit the notice, or remit the payment, to him forthwith."

 

I could speculate as to the reason as to why you returned my request for a CCA to myself instead of forwarding to you clients as you should as stated above, but regardless of your motive it does not discharge you nor your client of your duty to supply a valid CCA as requested.

 

You and your client have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account.

 

Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

 

As you have failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, failed to send a full statement of the account and Failed to provide any of the documentation requested.

 

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

 

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect.

 

This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

 

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data.

 

It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

 

Should you not respond within 14 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

 

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY

Action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

 

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

 

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* You may not pass the account to a third party.

* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

 

Please also be aware it is your responsibility to inform your client of the above, as stated in Section 175 CCA 1974

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit.

You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint.

 

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

Regarding the second alleged debt from Next Directory Ltd Ref: - xxxxxxxx Your Ref: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

I must admit that I am rather bemused as to why this account has been passed to yourselves, as it is in dispute with the Next Directory Ltdand has been since xxth xxx 2008.

Not only is this a breach of OFT collection guidelines, but also in breach of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and Data Protection Act 1998

My last letter from Next Directory Ltdwas dated the xxth xxxx 2008 with what they claimed to be there compliance with my CCA request, which contained a blank illegible agreement and a covering letter ( see copy B and copy C enclosed) needless to say it does not, and as I am aware Next Directory Ltd have tried to pursue legal action on the strength of this and failed on several occasions Next Directory Ltd are fully aware it does not also.

As Next Directory Ltd is now in default of my Consumer Credit Act request I consider this account to be in SERIOUS DISPUTE.

As you are aware while my Consumer Credit Act request remains in default enforcement action is NOT permitted, under s127 this constitutes a complete defence at law.

Now I would respectfully suggest that this account is returned to the Next Directory Ltd for resolution of these defaults and breaches, as Moorcroft Debt Recovery Ltd cannot lawfully pursue any enforcement activities.

If Moorcroft Debt Recovery Ltd chooses to ignore my dispute and attempt enforcement, I will initiate legal action and file reports with the appropriate authorities, including, but not limited to, Trading Standards, Office of Fair Trading, Information Commissioners Office, Financial Ombudsman Service and possible court action.

After taking advice, I am of the opinion that any continued pursuit is in violation of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40 as well as breaching a number of the OFT Collection Guidelines

I hope that this will not be necessary and an acceptable solution can be accomplished.

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

Edited July 14, 2008 by blind-as-a-bat

[N.P]

Hi there baab,

 

Personally I think you would be better off sending a seperate letter for each account and also starting a thread for each account. These things can soon get quite messy with more than one account per thread.

 

Have you actually sent a reply to them yet?

 

Perhaps you should scan up the letters you have received from Morecrap so people can help out more.

 

Regards

 

 

N.P

[blind-as-a-bat]

No not sent it yet, just thought it would save on postage doing it in on, not that im tight or anything:oops: just skint.

 

Give me a min and i will post the links to what i have recieved so far

[blind-as-a-bat]

Ok i sent a CCA to moorcroft as argos had already passed it on and got this reply eventually, not had anything since

 

http://www.blind-as-a-bat.eu/moorcroft1edited.JPG

 

 

Regarding the next i sent a CCA to next who replired with these

 

http://www.blind-as-a-bat.eu/next1edited.jpg

 

http://www.blind-as-a-bat.eu/next2noeditneeded.jpg

 

then eventually passed it to moorcroft who sent me this

 

http://www.blind-as-a-bat.eu/edited-Copy-next-moor.jpg

[N.P]

Hi,

 

I wouldn`t worry about the Argos / Moorcroft account just yet, they haven`t complied with your request, so it is still in play. Untill they deliver CCA, there`s very little they can do.

 

How old is this Argos Account, I`m onto my 3rd DCA (Including Morcrap) and been through a Solicitors. What is the balance?

 

Did Next actually send you a blank CCA? If so, they`re going to need a lot more than that.

 

How old is this account and what is the balance?

 

When did you receive the Pre-Court Letter from Morecrap?

 

 

N.P

[Curlyben]

Yeah my letters always tend to have the desired effect

[blind-as-a-bat]

I recieved the Moorcroft letter Re Next friday afternoon,

 

All aledged accounts are quite a few years old well before the 2006 changes. but untill they supply the agreemants i cant give you exact dates :-?

 

The next account is just short of £800

[blind-as-a-bat]

Yeah my letters always tend to have the desired effect

 

Didnt need to change/add much either Curlyben saved a bit of time searching so thanks:)

[blind-as-a-bat]

Yeah my letters always tend to have the desired effect

 

Sorry Curlyben looks like your letter has lost,s affectivnes

 

recieved this in the post today:rolleyes:

 

 

Question are the amounts they quote based on the value of the alledged debts as i got one of these for the argos account and they where a lot more than this one:confused: Makes no differance just curious:p

 

Whats the best reply to them egnoring the account is in despute letter?

 

Ive tried doing a couple but dardnt send them (well i dare but may not be wise:p) Or is this not even worth a reply?

[Curlyben]

Not to worry.

You have nothing further to say to them anyway.

It now time to report these "people" to Trading Standards as they are clearly demanding payment on an unsubstantiated debt.

[blind-as-a-bat]

Ok time to learn the next bit then, is there a thread or sticky with how to go about doing that Curlyben?

[Curlyben]

Call Consumer Direct, explain what's happened and that Moorcroft are threatening all kinds of legal action with supplying or validating the debt.

They in turn will pass your complaint onto your local TS for action.

[blind-as-a-bat]

Thanks Curlyben will do

[palomino]

And which 'major public utility' has breached the Data Protection Act?

[blind-as-a-bat]

Do you mean as in the OC for passing the details to Moorcroft?

 

Who if i understand it correcty are in breach themselves anyway as they have no agreemant to prove there right to hold the data anyway

[palomino]

Do you mean as in the OC for passing the details to Moorcroft?

 

 

No - in the letter in post 9 above it say 'Please note that we have confirmed with a major public utility that you are in occupancy at the above address'.

[blind-as-a-bat]

Oh yes never read that bit, i got as far as "Notice of" before i got bored:p

 

Normally they put we have added £12 for sending you this pointless letter there:rolleyes:

 

What do you reckon the chances are of me finding out which utility they imagined, er sorry i mean did contact:grin:

[notsoevil]

Hi dont worry to much about the letter - if you read it is says it MAY which is very careful worded threat. It doesnt say it will!!!! Again I would call the company say you have written letters which they have not responded to, you suggest they read the letter before sending out any scary letters! I would then put the phone down leaving the DCA to look into your account. If you get any more letters etc ignoring yours then speak to a solictor or CAB office.

[N.P]

Hi there blind-as-a-bat,

 

Have you noticed they say if Legal action is nescessary then the debt will increase? They seem to think they will automatically get judgement if they issue a claim.

 

Clearly this is just a pointless last minute threat to try and scare you into giving in.

 

Let them get on with it and waste their time and money. Without a valid CCA they won`t get very far. Then you can counterclaim for harrassment and demand a public apology and explanation for their very existence, when all they do in life is send irritating letters to people for debts they haven`t proved.

 

 

 

N.P

[palomino]

 

What do you reckon the chances are of me finding out which utility they imagined, er sorry i mean did contact:grin:

 

Hang on a mo - I can see Lord Lucan riding past on Shergar. I'll see if he knows ...

 

 

... damn, he went past without stopping. Sorry.

 

Ooh, hang on another mo. There's a canoe out there...

 

 

... blast. Not doing so well here - there's no-one in it.

[creditcardmug]

Hi dont worry to much about the letter - if you read it is says it MAY which is very careful worded threat. It doesnt say it will!!!! Again I would call the company say you have written letters which they have not responded to, you suggest they read the letter before sending out any scary letters! I would then put the phone down leaving the DCA to look into your account. If you get any more letters etc ignoring yours then speak to a solictor or CAB office.

 

You will notice that the OP says both accounts are in dispute, this means the DCA must CEASE all collection activity until the dispute is resolved.

Therefore he does not need to go to a solicitor or the CAB, he just needs to wait until the DCA has resolved the disputes.

Do you agree??

[thunderballs]

Don't expect an answer to your question from notsoevil. See the 'I am a debt collector' thread for the reason.

[blind-as-a-bat]

Well if there was ever any doubt that it was just an empty threat (which there wasnt:p) then Moorcroft have made themselves look daft again.

 

Recieved a "we confirm Next cant supply an agreemant" letter after that one arived

 

Does waffle on about account outstanding, goods supplied, Then ask me to confirm goods where supplied (yeh right as if, isnt that theres and Next,s job to prove there where?)

And how i propose to settle the bill (IF they can prove goods where supplied...... slowly......... if at all:rolleyes:).

 

They obviously are judging my inteligence by there own standards:p

 

My guess is i now need to remind them of the Data Protection act they are in breach of by proscessing any information as they cant prove permision was given in a contract to do so? Am i correct?

[N.P]

Hi blind-as-a-bat,

 

I received one of those from them regarding an Argos Account, then I never heard from them again.

 

I was later hassled from Fredrikson International, who did show up with a dodgy looking Agreement, but were later scattered. I am at presently being pestered by JBDR, who I like to call BJ

 

You should have nothing more to fear from Morecrap.

 

Regards

 

 

 

N.P

[creditcardmug]

Yes you can send them a notice to cease processing your data, as they do not have your permission to do so, send it to the OC as well though