Lee vs NatWest ***WON***

[PLucky]

Hello, Im sorry I dont mean to hijack a thread here but I am planning to start my claim soon against Natwest. Ive been reading through alot of these threads and one thing is popping up alot is that Natwest are filing a defence.

 

Now this may come accross thick, and i will openly admit, i'm not clever at stuff like this. But because they are filing a defence does that mean you have to actually go into a court infront of a judge etc etc?

[Guest NATTIE]

Plucky- the answer is NO usually is settled before court and Good Luck Lee

[lee_obrien]

Thank you everyone. For some reason I'm not getting the email reminders to tell me that you've all replied and I'm working weird hours at the mo so only get a chance to glance at my emails. Received the county court letter today. The claim is deemed to be served on the 16th September. They need to reply by 30th September. A defence needs to be submitted by 14th October. Hope all goes well :-| . Nobody answered my query about starting a thread in the litigation section. Is this advised ?

[Michael Browne]

You can't start a thread yourself. PM a Mod with details of your claim

[lee_obrien]

Howdy. I've just looked on the moneyclaim website and the claim is 'acknowledged' and dated 14/9/06. Does this mean they still have 28 days from the date of service (which is 16/9/06) or from the acknowledgment date? Also, I'm an idiot.....I never even thought about it before but any of those numptys at Natwest could be reading this and it wouldn't take a rocket scientist (or a lawyer) long to figure out from my user name exactly who I am etc. Is it possible to change this username? I know it would mess up all the threads but I could start a new one and bring it up to date and this one could be deleted. Let me know. Ta.

[Michael Browne]

28 days from date of service.

 

Re: ID. Horse and stable door come to mind. But so what, they know who you are, you've filed a claim, remember! And it's the claim that counts, not what you say on here.

[lee_obrien]

....still waiting.

[lee_obrien]

:idea: Right.....got their defence. Seems a fairly standard affair. Request persuant of CPR 18. I have until the 27th to respond to them...apparently. they are saying I have not specified which charges I am claiming back, am I claiming I should not have been charged and if I am why, was I in breach of contract, I should prove that the charges are unfair and disproportionate etc, etc, etc. I hope this is a fairly standard letter. It runs to about 9 pages and lists 8 points and sub points which they require clarification on. Is there a standard letter to reply to this ? I'm gonna do it tomorrow...too late to start now. I think it basically needs a letter back with the spread sheet I've already sent them and a bit more legalese doesn't it ? :idea:

[lee_obrien]

:!: HELP, HELP, HELP, HELP...etc, etc...SHOULD I PANIC etc,etc... Please see the previous posting in this thread. Do I not respond to the CPR 18 request? (I know this only counts if its over a £5K claim, I think...) Do I threaten them back, requesting a breakdown of how they charge etc? Should I duplicate the entire letter into this thread so somebody with a bit more of a legal mind can translate for me? I also have it scanned on to the computer if thats any help. Should I wait until the court ask me for this information? :!:

[Michael Browne]

This is Cobbetts latest scare tactic

As the claim, strictly speaking, has not yet been allocated, they can make a CPR Part 18 request, so you must respond. You must also send a copy of their request and your reply to the court. You can if you wish, respond in full. Altenatively:

 

Dear Sir or Madam:

Claim No: XXXXX in XXXX County Court

 

I acknowledge receipt of your defence & request for further information and clarification.

 

I would like to advise you that I am a litigant in person in this matter, and so do not feel that I am adequately qualified to understand or respond to the points you raise in your letter. Consequently, I have decided that I will await the hearing on xx/xx/xx, at which I will ask the judge for guidance on the best way to respond to you.

 

I anticipate that the claim would be allocated to the small claims track and would not then expect to have to deal with a Part 18 request since these are specifically excluded under Part 27 unless the court specifically orders me to do so of its own initiative

 

However, for clarity, I enclose a schedule of charges and I confirm the charges I am claiming were applied to the following account:

 

Account Name: XXXXX

Account numbers: XXXXX

Sort Code XXXXX

Amount XXXXX

 

Yours sincerely

[lee_obrien]

Thank you Michael. Will do that. Can I ask them under CPR 18 how they calculate charges for bank charges etc. (including manual intervention etc), will this not show to the court that I have attempted to resolve the matter outside court? Also...does this count as a defence as on their request it states it is just that....a request not a defence.

[Michael Browne]

This might suit you: (Can't remember who originally posted it!!)

 

Dear Sir,

 

I write in response to the recently submitted Defence and Request for Further Information you submitted to XXXXXX Court, relating to my claim (claim number – XXXXXXXX) against your client XXXXXXX Bank

 

I understand you have asked for a detailed schedule individually listing all charges debited to my bank account. I have of course provided a schedule of the charges and believe this is sufficient for your clients to exactly understand the details of my case. Please find an additional copy enclosed. Particularly, as your clients have always been fully aware of all charges they have made to my account and indeed, my calculations have been taken directly from information they have supplied me. I suggest you obtain a schedule from your clients as to their confirmation of the charges they have made (and interest thereon).

 

I believe both yourselves and Nat West have been supplied with all of the details necessary to move this claim forwards.

 

I am aware that the Court can order certain and further information from both parties, you appear to have attempted to obtain this information suggesting I am under strict obligations to obey your requests rather than the Courts. With this in mind, I see no reason why I should be sending you any further information relating to this case. It is the Court that decides whether or not any further information is required, not yourselves.

 

Where the Court orders such detailed information, I shall request reciprocal documentation from your clients detailing those same charges and interest to which I am reclaiming along with evidence to confirm the exact costs to which your clients have been subjected and from which they have added profit margins to arrive at the eventual charge made to my accounts for each and every charge.

 

If you feel it other than an abuse of the process to request for further information in the manner you requested it, I have no difficulty in making a reciprocal request.

 

On the advice of other claimants, whose claims are in identical circumstances to mine and who have been passed onto you by Nat West, I will be sending a copy of this letter to the Court. I will also be sending them copies of the letters, which clearly show the schedule of charges and details that you claim I have not yet supplied.

 

I consider that upon allocation this case will be referred to the Small Claims Track; accordingly I consider your CPR Part 18 request to be irrelevant as Part 18 would not apply. I shall not be responding to your requests. I shall of course respond to the order of the Court leaving the matters to be settled by the court

[lee_obrien]

This is what I've put in the envelope (not sent yet), also the letter to the court (not sent yet) all ok ?............ I've changed a few bits. Mainly about what I want from them.

 

Dear Sirs,

 

I write in response to the recently submitted Defence and Request for Further Information you submitted to Northampton County Court, relating to my claim (claim number – xxxxxxxx) against your client National Westminster Bank.

 

I understand you have asked for a detailed schedule individually listing all charges debited to my bank account. I have of course provided a schedule of the charges and believe this is sufficient for your clients to exactly understand the details of my case. Particularly, as your clients have always been fully aware of all charges they have made to my account and indeed, my calculations have been taken directly from information they have supplied me. I suggest you obtain a schedule from your clients as to their confirmation of the charges they have made (and interest thereon).

 

I believe both yourselves and National Westminster Bank have been supplied with all of the details necessary to move this claim forwards.

 

I am aware that the Court can order certain and further information from both parties, you appear to have attempted to obtain this information suggesting I am under strict obligations to obey your requests rather than the Courts. With this in mind, I see no reason why I should be sending you any further information relating to this case. It is the Court that decides whether or not any further information is required, not yourselves.

 

Where the Court orders such detailed information, I shall request reciprocal documentation from your clients detailing those same charges and interest to which I am reclaiming along with evidence to confirm the exact costs to which your clients have been subjected and from which they have added profit margins to arrive at the eventual charge made to my accounts for each and every charge. Additionally, if your client alleges the charges are applied in return for the provision of a banking service to the claimant, I shall request exactly what service was provided and documentation including notes, memoranda and evidence of any manual intervention to support any such alleged service. I will also request confirmation as to whether these charges are made automatically.

 

If you feel it other than an abuse of the process to request for further information in the manner you requested it, I have no difficulty in making a reciprocal request.

 

I consider that upon allocation this case will be referred to the Small Claims Track; accordingly I consider your CPR Part 18 request to be irrelevant as Part 18 would not apply. However, in the interests of clarity and expedience I have, once again, enclosed a schedule of charges and I confirm the charges I am claiming were applied to the following account:

 

Account Name: xxxxxxxxx

Account number: xxxxxxxxx

Sort Code : xxxxxxxxx

Amount : xxxxxxxxx

Interest: xxxxxxxxx

 

On the advice of other claimants, whose claims are in identical circumstances to mine and who have been passed onto you by Nat West, I will be sending a copy of this letter to the Court. I will also be sending them copies of the letters, which clearly show the schedule of charges and details that you claim I have not yet supplied.

 

LETTER TO COURT -

 

Dear Sirs,

 

I write in response to the recently submitted Defence and Request for Further Information submitted to Northampton County Court, relating to my claim (claim number – xxxxxxxx) against National Westminster Bank from the defendant.

 

Please find attached copies of all my correspondence with the defendant relating to this case including the latest, a CPR Part 18 request, which states that the defendant is not in possession of the details of charges I am claiming back in relation to this case.

 

I believe the enclosed demonstrates that the defendant has been fully aware from the beginning of this process of the exact charges I am attempting to claim back, and I wish to make the Court aware of this.

 

It is my understanding that upon allocation this case will be referred to the Small Claims Track; accordingly I consider the CPR Part 18 request to be irrelevant as Part 18 would not apply. However, in the interests of clarity and expedience I have, once again, supplied a schedule of charges and interest being claimed to the defendant.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

 

 

ANY GOOD.....? I'll send 'em tomorrow if you give me the thumbs up. Ta.

[Michael Browne]

Fine.

[lee_obrien]

Cheers !...Fingers crossed.

[lee_obrien]

Got a copy of their defence along with the allocation questionnaire. I'm gonna fill this out. They say that if my claim is for over £1500 they want a £100 fee. The amount I am claiming is under £1500 but the interest thereon takes it above this amount. I spoke to the court today and they were very vague. Do I need to pay it ? I only ask because that takes my expenditure for this to £220 odd quid and if they try to settle out of court I'm essentially going to be out of pocket for this money.

[Wheresmewallet]

Got a copy of their defence along with the allocation questionnaire. I'm gonna fill this out. They say that if my claim is for over £1500 they want a £100 fee. The amount I am claiming is under £1500 but the interest thereon takes it above this amount. I spoke to the court today and they were very vague. Do I need to pay it ? I only ask because that takes my expenditure for this to £220 odd quid and if they try to settle out of court I'm essentially going to be out of pocket for this money.

 

I think it is just your charges. So you are okay

 

Best check with a Mod though

[Michael Browne]

1. The fee is payable on the claim plus interest

 

2. Now that you have filed a claim, initial court fee + allocation fee are reclaimable from the bank even when they settle out of court

[lee_obrien]

Thank you.

[lee_obrien]

Here we go. Got a letter from Cobetts on 26th Oct. Standard letter....'we think you'll fail, blah, blah, blah, transparency of information, blah, blah, blah.....as a goodwill gesture we offer £1000 etc, etc, etc.' And heres my dilemma. I'm not sure its a fair offer considering.....

 

Amount owing : £1252.85

Interest : £ 499.22

Outlay : £ 220.00 (court fees etc)

 

Total : £1972.07

 

So, what do you think (anyone)? Should I take the money and run or stand firm ? They've offered just enough to make me think about it. I've gone through it in my head all last night and today and I'm still not sure. The offer stands until 1st November 2006. I still stand a chance, if I accept the offer this weekend, of cancelling the cheque to the court for £100.00 shaving a oner off the above amount for court fees. So any suggestions / advice ?

[Michael Browne]

They've offered just enough to make me think about it. I've gone through it in my head all last night and today and I'm still not sure.

 

If it was my claim this would be a no brainer. £780 against a claim of £1751 or 45%. Not even close. Do you really want to say goodbye to £1000?

 

But it's not my claim, so it's entirely up to you.

[lee_obrien]

Yes, thats what I'm thinking....however.... are they likely to offer anymore? I'm not sure I've got the bottle or the street smarts for court (or the legal smarts for that matter). And besides if it did come to that, I'd be REALLY pestering you guys for the next few weeks for rebuttals to their legal arguements and I'd have to familiarise myself with all the statutes, consumer law etc.(have I got enough time to do that?) I'll have to get the law pack too, have I left that too late?

 

I really want to say, "sod it, you can poke your grand up your arse" and carry on with the action. I may have to sleep on it again. As I said I've got till Sunday night if I'm gonna cancel the courts cheque.

 

Is there anywhere on the site that has help for when you're going to court. Likely defences, arguements against, what to say and when.....somebody to hold my hand (preferably a girl - I'm not holding hands with another fella)?

 

Anyone else reading this feel free to comment.....

[cheddar]

The letter and offer you got are a standard have a read around this section and the success section at the top as well to see that this is normal usual bog standard practice from Cobbetts and Natwest. The only smart thing you need to do is write a very simple letter saying you will accept in part payment on the understanding that you get the rest of your money back with no conditions attached.

[Michael Browne]

Have a read through 2 or 3 of the Natwest Successes. Not one has gone to court and they'll give you a good idea of what to expect:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/natwest-successes/

[lee_obrien]

Thanks, I'm feeling a bit more bouyed now. I'll still consider it over the weekend but it looks like I'm gonna carry on...why not...nothing to lose really. Cheers everyone. I'll keep ya posted.