Annalh v Egg/DLA/Eversheds ** Judgement given by court **

[ANNALH]

Well done cb. Good luck I will be watching with interest. keep me posted.

[Cristal]

Hiya - I'm new-ish and hope I'm on the right thread. I'm being hounded by Eversheds for an Egg loan (5 figures). I've CCA'd them, they've signed for the CCA but obviously there is not a lot of communication between them and the relevant department. I rec'd a deliberately embarrassing (i.e., obvious) post card yesterday, informing me that one of their 'agents' would be calling in 48 hours. I called and spoke with the ever unpleasant 'Michelle' and explained that the account was officially in dispute. I then faxed her the CCA letter - which also states that any further telephone contact from them is illegal and actionable by law. In the fax, I also included any visits from their 'agents' in the latter!

 

I understand that there are few to nil examples of 'executed agreements', as requested in the CCA. Let me know how you get on and I will also keep you posted!

[Mistermind]

Cristal, if unpleasant visitor decides to invite himself in defiance of the law, suggest you take a camera photo of him, note down his car licence plate, and insist he shows his ID, from which you would record his name.

 

Debt collectors are licensed by the OFT, they can also be unlicensed by the OFT, and Debt collector Company Secretary will personally answer in law for the actions of his employees. a £2 search on www.companieshouse.gov will provide name and address of the Company Secretary.

[Cristal]

V. good advice and thank you so much. Hopefully, it will not come to that!

[ANNALH]

Had a letter from Eversheds this morning to say they WILL be attending the hearing on Tuesday! - and after they have already made me 2 offers???

Surely they cannot expect the judge to take them seriously?

[Mistermind]

ANNALH,

 

the bloodsuckers are always trying to bamboozle, initimidate, and bluff holding a hand of deuce and trey, hoping the victim caves in so they score a bloodless win. Their other routine tactic is for an improvising employee to dart out to try land an outrageous blow on the customer, then for him to scuttle back to hide anonymously behind the walls of an institution. Suggest you immediately send a letter addressed to the Company Secretarys of both Egg and DLA by name, stating:

 

(1) That as you have never signed a confidentiality clause you intend to make the fullest details available to the press and TV if necessary, naming all individuals on their side.

 

(2) That acts designed to retaliate against customers who seek lawful redress will be reported with fullest details to the Banking Ombudsman, who has repeatedly dished out reprimands and fines to financial institutions guilty of this offence.

 

(3) That DLA be reminded they continue to stay in business only so long as they continue to observe the code and conduct and hold a licence from the OFT, and that you request DLA to furnish you with their OFT licence number, if it is not printed on their company stationery.

 

It is not Egg vs ANNALH,

it is Egg vs the law of England.

[ANNALH]

I contacted Eversheds to see if they would be attending court and they basically said they will be attending to defend, and they emailed me a copy of the witness statement they will be using in court.

 

They also said they are applying for summary judgement against me on the basis that my claim stands no chance of winning. Cheeky buggars!

 

I reminded them that the judge will not look too kindly on them making 2 offers and then withdrawing them after i queried the amounts.

 

Incidentally i signed their tomlin order a couple of days ago even though it was after the 14 days they gave me to accept, because i told them the figures were wrong and asked for a breakdown of what they were offering - they never replied.

I thought sod it its not far off so i signed the agreement and returned it now they are saying i am out of time. Well looks like court it is then.

[ANNALH]

CLAIMANT

Dated: 12th March 2007

Filed: 12th March 2007

Exhibits: RAM1

RAM2

RAM3

 

KIDDERMINSTER COUNTY COURT

CLAIM NUMBER:

 

 

 

 

BETWEEN:

 

 

 

Claimant

 

-and-

 

EGG BANKING PLC

Defendant

 

 

WITNESS STATEMENT

 

OF

 

 

I, of Eversheds LLP, 1 Callaghan Square, Cardiff, CF10 5BT state as follows :-

 

I am a Legal Assistant in the employment of Eversheds LLP, solicitors for the Defendant, and under the supervision of my principals, have conduct of these proceedings. I am duly authorised by the Defendant to make this Witness Statement on its behalf and am able to state the facts set out from information acquired by me whilst acting in my aforementioned capacity.

I refer to the exhibits marked ‘RAM1’, ‘RAM2’ and ‘RAM3’ which contains copy documents to which I will refer to in my statement. References to page numbers will be references to the Exhibits unless the context suggests otherwise.

BACKGROUND

The Claimant and Mr x entered into an Egg Joint Loan Agreement with the Defendant on 4 October 1999 (the “Agreement”). I attach a copy of the Agreement together with the Defendant’s standard Terms and Conditions (the “Terms and Conditions”), marked as RAM1.

Under section 3 of the Terms and Conditions of the Loan Agreement (“The Terms and Conditions”) states:

“We may also charge you for any costs and expenses we incur, including our administrative costs and legal costs and expenses, in obtaining payment of any overdue amount….”

A copy of the Terms and Conditions was supplied to the Borrowers at the commencement of the Loan Agreement, and on signing the Loan Agreement the Claimant confirmed that she had read and agreed to, the Terms and Conditions.

The Borrowers have on numerous occasions failed to make the monthly payments. A copy of the Statement of Account is marked as RAM2.

DLA were instructed on 28th March 2001 to recover the arrears resulting from multiple missed payments. The charges invoiced to Egg by DLA were added to the Loan accordingly. A copy of the charges from DLA is marked as RAM3.

On 29 August 2006 the Claimant issued proceedings against the Defendant for the recovery of the debt collection agency charges upon the basis that the charges are “a disproportionate penalty”.

The Defendant is of the view that the Claim relates to DLA’s legal costs alone and not any further default charges.

It is denied that the charges are “a disproportionate penalty” as alleged. The charges represent the actual cost to Egg of attempting to enforce the Agreement and recover the debt , as evidenced by exhibit ‘RAM3’. The Claimant clearly agreed to the Terms and Conditions allowing the Defendant to recover such charges, in entering into the Loan Agreement.

ACCOUNT DETAILS

The Claimant’s Loan Agreement with the Defendant is ongoing and has an outstanding balance of £2,670.14.

THE DEFENDANT’S POSITION

The Defendant is not willing to refund the charges to the Claimant as the Agreement clearly provided that the Defendant may recover its enforcement costs. Further, there is no issue of the charges constituting penalties as the debt collection agency fees represent the actual costs for which the Defendant was invoiced.

CONCLUSION

 

11. In view of the above the Defendant respectfully requests that the Court give Summary Judgement in favour of the Defendant further to CPR 24.2 upon the basis that there is no reasonable prospect of the Claim succeeding. And there is no other compelling reason why the Claim should be disposed of at trial. In the alternative, the Defendant requests that the Court exercise its power under CPR 3.4 and strikes out the Claim upon the basis that the Particulars of Claim discloses no reasonable grounds for bringing the Claim.

 

 

 

Signed…………………………………….…….

 

Rebecca Anne McIntosh

 

Date……..……………………………………..

 

KIDDERMINSTER COUNTY COURT

CLAIM NUMBER: 6QZ58442

 

 

 

 

BETWEEN:

 

 

 

 

Claimant

 

-and-

 

EGG BANKING PLC

Defendant

 

 

EXHIBIT RAM1 TO THE WITNESS STATEMENT

OR

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

KIDDERMINSTER COUNTY COURT

CLAIM NUMBER: 6QZ58442

 

 

 

 

BETWEEN:

 

 

 

 

Claimant

 

-and-

 

EGG BANKING PLC

Defendant

 

 

EXHIBIT RAM1 TO THE WITNESS STATEMENT

O

 

KIDDERMINSTER COUNTY COURT

CLAIM NUMBER:

 

 

 

 

BETWEEN:

 

 

 

 

Claimant

 

-and-

 

EGG BANKING PLC

Defendant

 

 

EXHIBIT RAM2 TO THE WITNESS STATEMENT

OR REBECCA ANNE MCINTOSH

 

KIDDERMINSTER COUNTY COURT

CLAIM NUMBER: 6QZ58442

 

 

 

 

BETWEEN:

 

 

 

 

Claimant

 

-and-

 

EGG BANKING PLC

Defendant

 

 

EXHIBIT RAM3 TO THE WITNESS STATEMENT

OR REBECCA ANNE MCINTOSH

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

IN THE KIDDERMINSTER COUNTY COURT

 

 

CLAIM NUMBER:

 

 

B E T W E E N :

 

 

 

Claimant

 

-and-

 

 

EGG BANKING PLC

 

Defendant

 

 

 

WITNESS STATEMENT

 

 

 

MESSRS EVERSHEDS

1 CALLAGHAN SQUARE

CARDIFF

CF10 5GY

 

 

 

Solicitors for the Claimant

[Cristal]

Cristal, if unpleasant visitor decides to invite himself in defiance of the law, suggest you take a camera photo of him, note down his car licence plate, and insist he shows his ID, from which you would record his name.

 

Debt collectors are licensed by the OFT, they can also be unlicensed by the OFT, and Debt collector Company Secretary will personally answer in law for the actions of his employees. a £2 search on www.companieshouse.gov will provide name and address of the Company Secretary.

 

Not sure if you can help and I've been all over this site to find a definition of 'executed agreement' that I can actually absorb. Egg sent me an agreement that is 2 pages, signed by me and Egg, headed by the Credit Agreement regulated by the CCA 1974....which incorparates the Persoanl Loan Agreement T&C supplied to you with your copy of this agreement.... blah, blah. It includes my name & address, agreement number, interest rate, APR, No. of monthly payments, payable by. 2nd page: 'important, read your rights, blah, blah', when the money will be paid into my acc't, my signature under 'this Credit Agreement blah, blah,' and then signed on behalf of Egg banking. No separate T&C. Can anyone confirm it they've rec'd anything from Egg like this and is it legit?

[Cristal]

CLAIMANT

Annalh - just writing to say what a drag and I hope they bottle out before court. I hope they're very sorry if they do decide to proceed. I'm dealing with Eversheds on an Egg debt and they are fairly hideous - not even sure if the 'agreement' Egg sent me (described above) complies with the CCA regulations. And Eversheds is also on another debt of mine. I shall be watching your progress and am hoping and wishing the very best for you. Hang tough.

[Mistermind]

Anna and Cristal,

 

If Egg wishes to make out their case is a won game all over bar the shouting, do ask Egg ever so politely to explain why they abandoned their winning position and ran for the hills, in the 21 cases listed in V-E Day thread, quoting chapter and verse with some court case numbers.

 

All claimants agree they were in the wrong when they failed to make the minimum payment on time. However the agreement they signed with Egg cannot override the law of England. Any unlawful terms in the contract, signed or not, remains null and void in the eyes of the law.

 

If a cardholder were terminally ill, and signs an agreement with Egg for Egg to perform mercy killing and so put her out of her pain, such an agreement is in breach of English law and has no legal validity. Following the fatal act, despite the signed agreement Egg will be hauled into court facing a murder charge. Any bank which employs 6-figures-salary lawyers to vet the wording of their contracts, which then knowingly invites the unknowing public being laymen before the law, to sign such an unlawful agreement, has demonstrated contempt for the law of England.

 

Where a late-paying cardholder causes Egg inconvenience, natural justice would expect SOME compensation to be paid. Egg however, is expecting unnatural injustice.

 

Compensation needs to be tailored to fit the cost of the inconvenience caused, as clearly established in the Dunlop case of 1911. Egg doggedly refuses to reveal in evidence:

 

Itemised analysis of their expenses incurred,

Total number of punitive charges levied.

 

I have read that many times Egg threatened to go into court, but most times they took french leave at the last minute. Just brinkmanship, intending to work on the victim's nerves so she caves in for a quiet life.

 

I gather only once did Egg show up in court, in Oxford on 21st November 2006. They lost their case, paying the claimant's legal expenses and refunding the charges. The judge ordered a reduction of charges from £20 to a compromise figure of £5 a time. In the Oxford hearing the claimant who happened to be a lawyer produced evidence of studies from Australia showing that expenses incurred by automated IT systems handling late payments and overlimit situations amounted variously from 50 pence to £3 per item, not £20! Let appear to be no UK figures available. What figures they banks have, they hide.

 

Dear Cristal,

 

Not to be initimidated by debt collectors who are probably on piece work, individuals being paid a bonus percentage of what they can browbeat and squeeze out of victims improvising tactics on the day. By all means obtain the name and address of the Company Secretary before the promised visit, and make it clear you hold the C.S. personally responsible in law and before the OFT Licensing Committee, for the behaviour of his proxies. It is not Eversheds v Cristal, it is Eversheds v the majesty of the law.

 

The law stands with you, and Forum members wish you well.

[Cristal]

Endless thanks, Mistermind! This is a v. sophisticated thread and will take a long time for me to fully appreciate it. I admit I am dazzled by the info here. I must invest in a scanner so I can post my Egg Loan agreement for the expert opinions available here. The Egg agreement looks terribly official but I've just noticed it lacks any reference to 'cancellation rights'. It also refers to separate T&C form, tho it does refer to it. It's a minefield!!!

 

Thank your for your inspiring vote of confidence. I hope Annalh uses your advice and takes Egg to the cleaners! Cx

[ANNALH]

Well i phoned court this morning and they said the judge has had your letter requesting adjournment but hasnt made a decision yet. You better come to the hearing and see what she says.

 

So I went to court at 2pm, defendants solicitor was already there, he introduced himself and then asked if we could have a chat. The usher took us to a private room and we discussed the basis of my claim for 20 minutes, during which time he told me he was instructed NOT to settle.

I told him i only had their witness statement last night and none of the exhibits were attached. He showed me what they were and then went off to photocopy them for me. I said if he explains what RAM3 was as i hadnt seen it before i would go ahead with the hearing.

 

Apparently 'RAM3' Karn was DLA's account to Egg (a list of all invoices they charged egg) and their 'time sheet' which 'proves' they spent x amount of time on my file and charged egg for such time.

I told the judge that they only told me some of the charges were in fact legal costs very recently so i did not have time to prepare my answers to this.

 

She was very understanding and we went through what egg could 'prove', which turned out to be only 6 items on my schedule of charges, unfortunately they were the larger amounts.

 

The Judge then said well as Egg cant prove all the other charges and have no idea what they were added on for, i will award you judgement on these.

 

Then we spent the next hour and a half discussing whether the 'legal costs' were in fact incurred and whether egg was entitled to recoup them from me. I disputed that i didnt receive many letters from them (including notice of default) so i was not happy that they had spent all the time they said they had on my file.

The Judge agreed with Egg's point that the t&c's I signed said egg were entitled to charge me such costs etc, so basically that was the reason she wouldnt let me reclaim those. Which is fair enough now that i know what they are!

I pointed out several times that i have asked Egg many times to explain what all the charges were, and the judge said yes as you have provided them with a full breakdown there is no reason why they shouldnt have given you an answer.

 

The rest of it was a blur pretty much as i had earrache throughout and was keen to get back to work before my boss threw a fit. I was there for 2 hours 15 mins in the end.

 

Egg now have to pay me £945, which is made up of £743 charges, £170 court fees and £32 interest.

 

They have 14 days to pay, so i am assuming they will deduct this from my balance and then i will settle the account and finally see the back of Egg!

 

A very good result under the circumstances.

[ANNALH]

And i didnt even need to argue whether they were unfair penalties or not! I did mention it but it turned out to be irrelevant as Egg didnt even know whether they were legal costs or penalty fees or what! They admitted their records are a bit slack and the Judge said I did what i thought was right with the information I had.

[caro]

Congratulations Anna. Good result.

[Guest ian cognito]

Well done Anna, I was checking in at work all afternoon, no comments, got home and no internet, finally got it back on and database errors!!!

 

Anyway, now I know the result, really pleased for you xx

[Cristal]

Annalh, multiple congratulations. Sounds incredibly stressful but the outcome is really wonderful.

[livelylad]

Well done.

[dpick]

Hi from someone at the start of three claims you are making it easier for us to get them.

 

dpick

[angry cat]

Hi Annalh!

 

Very Good News Indeed-

 

I know just how you must have felt at the hearing...been there, done that, got the T shirt.

However, praise is the order of the day for you:)

 

Just goes to show that if one is courageous and stick to ones convictions in exercising your Rights, it is amazing what one can accomplish.

 

Lots of Love

AC

ps I hope that your earache has gone!

[Yasmin]

Good result Anna.

[ANNALH]

I have just realised that PPI was added onto this loan amount but i never had any docs for it - just checked the agreement with egg and it must have been something they added on over the phone because all we had to sign was the loan agreement, which had the PPI added on and the signature box says " I confrm i have read terms and conditions etc and have received PPI information". When i got into trouble after i was made redundant Egg never said "why dont you claim on the PPI insurance". I was young and naiive at the time and never even knew i had it until now. I didnt even know what PPI was until i read about it on this forum a few months ago. This was a loan i took out in October 1999, a bit hastily maybe and without really knowing what i was doing. Do you think I can get the PPI back?

[kippy2]

most probably. have a read on the ppi forum lots of useful information

[ANNALH]

As it was arranged over the phone im not sure if they added it on without telling me or if they told me i had to have it in order to have the loan - which would be my safest argument??

[kippy2]

did they say you have to have the ppi in order to have the loan.