newbie - advice required in dealing with financial investigations & recoveries europe (fire) ltd/cabot financial

[mr.concerned]

hi to all

 

ive searched through the forums and i think im getting a little confused, so i thought id post and hopefully get some brilliant advice from all you experts out there!!

 

basically, i have an old credit card debt from 2003 (the account was opened in 1997), which at the time was about £6k, but has grown to nearer £10k over the years - interest charges, etc.

 

recently a representative from fire called and told me about the outstanding debt, which to be honest, i had forgotten all about - many things have happened personally since 2003!

 

we initially spend about 40 minutes going through all my income/expenditure and circumstances - i explained that i an a lone parent on income support and in the process of job hunting. i borrow from my folks each month to make ends meet, but he was not happy with this and asked how i can pay off the balance.

 

i said i cant but am willing to pay £1 per week/month to show commitment - he said that was unacceptable. after a further 20/30 minutes of basically the same crap, he said that i had until the end of june to pay £400. i said that was impossible and after more toing and froing, he reduced the payment to £200. i still said that would be impossible...

 

the debt, although currently with fire, originates from cabot who in turn got it from halifax or citibank (not sure). anyway, when i checked all three credit agencies, there is no record of the debt showing - is this significant?

 

the other thing is the fire do not have my current address - they have (apparently) been sending correspondence to an old address - they did ask for a new address, so i gave them one, just not my current address! (cheeky i know but they said your address, not your current address)...

 

they only have one number to contact me which is a messaging number and this routes through to any number i want, so has proved very handy. if they start calling and annoying me, i can turn call screening on if i wish - then they would have to say who they were before i talked to them, but i dont want it to get to that.

 

the representative did say that they would take further action ie. doorstep calls and court action if i wasnt clearing the balance. this is the bit that worries me...its the last thing i need. although they dont have my current address, im sure they would carry out the appropriate checks first become instigating any visits.

 

i know theres a letter i can use to request they provide proof that they have the authority to collect the money - i cant find it, and i hope someone can point me in the right direction...

 

also, can anyone help with advice and the whole thing about it not showing on any credit checks - does that mean anything. the fact that its almost 6 years old, can that be in my favour at all?

 

i dont want to put up any more details, cos you never know whos reading this - but if required, i can pm trusted members.

 

i look forward to all your tips and comments.

 

regards

[mojo130]

Do not send them any money and do not acknowledge this debt in writing.

 

Send them a request for a copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement entered into when this account was first taken out. Enclose a £1 postal order and do not sign the letter at all. You will find the letter to write in the template letters section on here.

 

Unless they are able to produce a properly executed agreement they cannot taken any enforcement action against you. Whilst they look for the original agreement the account id effectively on hold.

 

Good luck

[PGH7447]

hi to all

 

ive searched through the forums and i think im getting a little confused, so i thought id post and hopefully get some brilliant advice from all you experts out there!!

 

basically, i have an old credit card debt from 2003 (the account was opened in 1997), which at the time was about £6k, but has grown to nearer £10k over the years - interest charges, etc.Exact dates could be important here, getting or could be statute barred if no payment or acknowledgement made in all this time

 

recently a representative from fire called and told me about the outstanding debt, which to be honest, i had forgotten all about - many things have happened personally since 2003!

 

we initially spend about 40 minutes going through all my income/expenditure and circumstances - i explained that i an a lone parent on income support and in the process of job hunting. i borrow from my folks each month to make ends meet, but he was not happy with this and asked how i can pay off the balance. Dont ever talk to them ever again, if they ring say everything in writing please

 

i said i cant but am willing to pay £1 per week/month No your not to show commitment - he said that was unacceptable. after a further 20/30 minutes of basically the same crap, he said that i had until the end of june to pay £400. i said that was impossible and after more toing and froing, he reduced the payment to £200. i still said that would be impossible...

 

the debt, although currently with fire, originates from cabot who in turn got it from halifax or citibank (not sure). anyway, when i checked all three credit agencies, there is no record of the debt showing - is this significant? OK if it is not stat barred then CCA this creep and get them to prove they are allowed to collect the alledged debt see post above

 

the other thing is the fire do not have my current address - they have (apparently) been sending correspondence to an old address - they did ask for a new address, so i gave them one, just not my current address! (cheeky i know but they said your address, not your current address)...

 

they only have one number to contact me which is a messaging number and this routes through to any number i want, so has proved very handy. if they start calling and annoying me, i can turn call screening on if i wish - then they would have to say who they were before i talked to them, but i dont want it to get to that.

 

the representative did say that they would take further action ie. doorstep calls Not allowed and court action scare tactics if i wasnt clearing the balance. this is the bit that worries me...its the last thing i need. although they dont have my current address, im sure they would carry out the appropriate checks first become instigating any visits. if they do turn up tell them to leave then call the police

 

i know theres a letter i can use to request they provide proof that they have the authority to collect the money - i cant find it, and i hope someone can point me in the right direction...

 

also, can anyone help with advice and the whole thing about it not showing on any credit checks - does that mean anything. the fact that its almost 6 years old, can that be in my favour at all? hopefully then its stat barred

i dont want to put up any more details, cos you never know whos reading this - but if required, i can pm trusted members.

 

i look forward to all your tips and comments.

 

regards

 

Good luck

[42man]

As has been said above send them letter 'N' from here....

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/20758-creditors-dcas-letter-templates.html

 

Also after 6 years the debt is statute barred !!! so if you haven't paid towards nor acknowledged the debt then they cannot take any legal action against you !!!

[mr.concerned]

wow!! what fantastic advice and so quick to respond too...many thanks to all!

 

i have just a few questions though:

 

as they do not have my current address, is it acceptable to fax the letter to them requesting that all future response by via fax. i will simply put my number at the top of the letter.

 

fyi, all the faxes i receive are recorded by my telephone messaging system and emailed as images, so i have an audit trail (and proof should it be required).

 

i just do not want to give out my current address.

 

btw, these fire people are sneaky - on the two occasions they have phoned and ive answered, they have been different numbers - one landline, one mobile but they are both switchboard/ghost numbers.

[PGH7447]

Dont see why faxes cant be used, as long as they admit they recieved them, what you could do is write and tell them all correspondence to be faxed to your number

 

Also send them the phone harassment letter, to stop them calling

[mojo130]

I would ask that they only communicate to you in writing at your current address. Do not let them contact you by phone. Fax is not a good way to get them to send you a CCA agreement. Should they still phone you, a telephone harrassment letter should be sent straight away.

 

If things are sent to you in writing you have control of the situation and can construct a reply without having undue pressure placed upon you.

 

Remember to send all requests unsigned with a postal order if necessary and recorded delivery. For a CCA request you will have change from £2.50.

[mr.concerned]

just realised that i cant fax them if i have to send them a postal order!!! doh!!

[mojo130]

It would be very interesting if a CCA came back with your new address on it!!!!!

[pmhcfc]

just realised that i cant fax them if i have to send them a postal order!!! doh!!

 

Hi Mr Concerned!

 

Perhaps it would benefit you to read some of the Cabot threads in the 'Sticky' section. Post # 164 here > http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/67053-information-cabot-5.html?highlight=Cabot is a great start.

 

FIRE - ARE Cabot - just in disguise- it's the same company!...Everything you need to know about Cabot is easily at hand...Just gotta look or ask

;-)

[PGH7447]

It would be very interesting if a CCA came back with your new address on it!!!!!

 

That would be a classic

[mr.concerned]

many thanks for all for your time and replies with invaluable words of wisdom and advice...i havent had the need to add to this thread, but today i received something in the post that has made me wonder - what next?!?

 

first a brief summary of the correspondence received since i wrote the initial (template) letter at the beginning of july...

 

• 7/7/2008 reply from cabot financial europe ltd acknowledging receipt of request under sections 77/78 of cca 1974 - interesting that that say they "are not obliged to provide this information but are pleased to help...does not accept the statutory fee required under section 77/78 of cca 1974 and as a result cabot has returned the £1.00 fee you have sent". they then anticipate 12 days to get the photocopied information.
  

• 14/7/2008 letter from fire stating they "are prepared to accommodate your request on the strict understanding that you fully co-operate with us by setting up an agreed repayment plan". included was a budget form which they wanted filled in and returned within 7 days. if i did not, they stipulted that it would "leave us no alternative but to reinstate telephone contact or instruct doorstep agents to call upon you". never returned the budget form - had done it once over the phone on the initial call...
  

• 21/7/2008 letter from cabot financial europe ltd stating that "the original lender is experiencing a delay in retrieving the information from its archives....as a good will geature put your account on hold until we receive further communication from the original lender".
  

• 5/8/2008 letter from cabot financial europe ltd stating still experiencing delay - "although 24 days have passed since your request, we hope to be able to send the information to you shortly...your account shall remain on hold until further notice."
  

• 14/8/2008 letter from fire big bold typeface "make us a reasonable offer"!!! "as a final attempt to resolve this matter and to stop any further action, fire will guarantee to consider any sensible offer in full and final settlement of your account...by 29th august 2008".
  

• 27/8/2008 letter from cabot financial europe ltd providing copied original of credit agreement with terms and conditions, a representation of letter sent on 4/11/2003 (this isnt that actual letter but a print of the template with form fields), "additional information" including such points like "kings hill (no.1) ltd is the legal owner of the account referenced overleaf" (but not sure what overleaf refers to!), a representation of letter sent on 4/11/2003 from the original lender to me regarding the assignment of my account to cabot financial europe ltd, and an account summary with interest charges.
  

so, the question is...now that they have finally provided me with the information i requested, are they legally allowed to pursue for payment, taking into account the dates and lengths of time taken to retreive the original photocopies.

 

this is where it gets confusing for me, but im sure it may be quite clear to some of you with the experiences gained and your knowledge of the cca...

 

all replies welcome!...

[KER]

so, the question is...now that they have finally provided me with the information i requested, are they legally allowed to pursue for payment, taking into account the dates and lengths of time taken to retreive the original photocopies.

 

 

 

Assuming the agreement is legit, then yes they are. The account is only unenforceable whilst they are unable to produce the agreement, once they produce the agreement in the legally proscribed form, then they can enforce the debt.

[mr.concerned]

...thanks for that, but from what i understood, they had to provide the requested information within a certain time period, otherwise it becomes illegal for them to collect the debt...i read something along those lines within a thread posted on here...

[KER]

...thanks for that, but from what i understood, they had to provide the requested information within a certain time period, otherwise it becomes illegal for them to collect the debt...i read something along those lines within a thread posted on here...

 

The agreement cannot be enforced until they produce the agreement, once it has been produced, then they can collect*. The time period you are thinking of is the 12+2+30, which is now just 12+2.

 

I'll do a search for you and post the relevant bits.

Edited September 3, 2008 by Kyr
*this assumes that the agreement is in the proscribed form and contains all the correct terms!!

[KER]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/157873-still-bit-confused-about.html#post1687963

 

This post explains it very well from one of the site team.

[KER]

btw, it's great that you've been reading around the site, so don't forget to stay around and help others too

[mr.concerned]

hi...thanks for the responses...ive just received another letter from fire ltd - this one is a 'pre-visit notification' letter, stating that if i do not contact them within 48 hours with either a ful settlement or suitable offer of repayment, they will instigate legal proceedings or doorstep agents to call upon me...

 

what options do i now have because i have been through my finances with them via a telephone call in july, showing i cannot pay anything back, but they were not willing to do anything about it or show any leeway. since that call, my circumstances have not changed at all...

 

the last thing i need presently is a knock on the door or any legal proceedings brought against me...

 

please does anyone have any advice to share!

 

thanks

[mr.concerned]

hi all

 

well the 48 hours have passed and im none the wiser as to what to do...im not sure if they, cabot/fire, are in breach of any laws because they didnt supply the requested information within the 12 days that everyone seems to go on about. yes, it was retrieved eventually but does that make any difference?

 

also, if they do start doorstep challenges (in more than one sense of the word!), what should i do? what are my rights? is the process illegal? ive read so much on here, i think im getting confused with it all! but the one thing i know is i am beginning to worry...

 

also, the 6 year time period before the contract becomes statue barred - when do you start the 6 years from exactly - can anyone please clear that point up?

 

im really hoping someone out there has the knowledge to answer these questions!...

 

all posts welcome....

 

thanks...

[OnMyWayOut]

The 6 (5 in Scotland) years start from when you last made a payment to the account or made a written acknowledgement that you owed the money.

 

They aren't allowed to come to your home without making an appointment with you first, and you do not have to agree to one. If they turn up, tell them to leave and call the police if they don't.