Wolvesman89 -Lloyds TSB overdraft complaint

[Wolvesman89]

Hi all,

 

I am new to this forum, so go easy on me! Great site by the way!

 

I made a complaint to Lloyds TSB back on 27th February this year, as they had messed up with my overdraft facility, by removing it within a week of setting it up, and when I called to make them aware of this error and to ask for them to put it back (I was used to them messing up on my account by this time), they expected me to go through a whole new application (which can take up to 25 mins at times) for them to amend their error. I wasn't happy with this, as it would mean me wasting my time and money cleaning up their mess, so I made a complaint. Quite simple really.....you'd think.

 

I got a reply within the normal first 5 working days acknowledging my complaint, and that they needed the next 20 days to investigate my complaint thoroughly. Not sure why, as it should have been a simple case of listening to the one call that I made to set up this overdraft and confirming it was their problem, and to apologise to me.

 

Well, working in the financial services industry myself, and working in a job role that deals with complaints on a day-to-day basis, I know the timescales that are in line with FSA regulation (being 5 working days to acknowledge, 4 weeks to send a holding letter if still no resolution and a final response must be sent at 8 weeks).

 

I am still sitting here now, just over 15 weeks after initially making the complaint, and I haven't even received the four-week holding letter. Nothing since the acknowledgement. It was passed off to their Customer Service Recovery team in Birmingham on 29th February but the telephone number they quoted on the letter asked for you to leave your details for them to contact you back within approx 2 hours, which after 5 messages, they still haven't.

 

Now I know that this a serious breach of FSA regulation, and not only can I take this to FOS, but they would also be fined for breaching the regulation in the first place. My understanding is that the FOS service costs the company involved (it never costs the consumer) approx £300, and that they would be fined approx £100 as well.

 

I am looking to prepare a letter to them, confirming all this, and asking for some kind of settlement for me not to take them to FOS and costing them approx £400, instead offering me approx half of that for time, distress and to cover costs. I need some advice on if and how I should go about this. Your help would be much appreciated on this matter.

 

Cheers,

[Wolvesman89]

Anyone?

[Brassed off]

Hi Wolvesman and welcome to CAG

 

You seem to have a very good understanding of the complaints system, dealing with it on a day-to-day basis

 

The only thing I would suggest is that you write your complaint letter to Lloyds but make sure that you send it Recorded Delivery so that you are able ot track and trace it on the Royal Mail website and therefore have proof of delivery.

 

Just from experience, if it isn't sent recorded, then Lloyds may well deny receipt (this may well have happened with your initial letter).

 

When you receive a reply, start a new thread in the following forum:-

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloyds-bank/

 

Keep it updated and let us know how you get on.

 

Good Luck

 

Bo

[MARTIN3030]

The waiver agreed with the OFT pre the test case gave the Banks additional time OUTSIDE the 8 weeks timescale as defined by the FSA and Banking code,to investigate complaints relating to charges and fees.

There are exceptions to this bit I guess you dont fall into any of those categories.It was always known and suspected that the Banks would manipulate the waiver agreements-clearly it works for them in most cases.

Unfortunately you are left in an awkward position but in your case its not specifically all of your own making.

Therefore you could as you say,inform them that you will be making a formal complaint against them which will incur them costs.

Personally I would not suggest that they should pay you because of any fines that may be imposed upon them...but you could make reference to it...for example in the body of your letter...

 

You will doubtless be aware that complaints that are forwarded to the FOS can be subject to financial penalties whether the complaint is upheld or not.I am giving you the opportunity to avoid this and save these costs in settlement of my complaint.

 

 

Keep us updated and as suggested start a thread.

Edited June 15, 2008 by MARTIN3030

[MARTIN3030]

moved here and re-titled for you.

[Wolvesman89]

Hi and thank you Martin for your reply.

 

I know from personally dealing with complaints that this is a major thing for banks and building societies. Any breach of complaint procedures and they brick it. Not only does it lead to financial penalties imposed on them, but they do not like going down the FOS route as it brings their incompetencies to light to the governing body, the FSA.

 

I really am not sure whether I should offer them a last chance of offering me a financial settlement as resolution to my complaint. It could backfire, but I would still be able to take them to FOS regardless and they would face a fine for not adhering to the rules and regs.

 

I'll just have to see how it goes I suppose. I'll keep you updated, I'll be drafting a letter and publishing it on here before sending it off, if you could possibly check it over?

 

Cheers in advance.

[MARTIN3030]

Yes agree completely.You are well past the 8 weeks allowed by the FSA and banking code.Of course you could still fire off a complaint even if they resolved matters at this late stage...The crux would be whether the bank could show that you had agreed settlement of any terms in their resolution as being acceptable.

Aside from any financial deprivation to yourself-theres the question of them failing in their duty of care in properly looking after your account.

I think you know all this already but for others reading I have just re-enforced it

[Wolvesman89]

Hi everyone,

 

I haven't been able to use this site lately, due to a family member illness and death, so I also haven't been able to chase this complaint.

 

Just to put you back in the picture, I finally managed to contact the Customer Service Recovery department in Birmingham in early November and they have told me they sent me a letter back in March this year! I never received the letter nor did I receive a follow up checking I had received it and was happy with the conclusion. I asked the woman I was speaking with to read the letter to me during our conversation and it had, in no way whatsoever, answered my concerns.

 

I reopened the complaint and they said they would need a further 14 days to respond. I agreed to allow them this time to respond to my concerns in full, and I have still not heard from them, nor have I received a copy of the first letter that I requested. Therefore, this is the last straw, and I have drafted a final warning letter and wondered if anyone could give me some advice. The letter is long, so I apologise in advance but hope that you could read over it and let me know if this is OK.

 

Dear Sir or Madam,

RE: Complaint reference ******* – dated 27th February 2008

I am writing to you with regards the above complaint, of which I made on the above date, 27th February 2008.

I made a complaint to your Telephone Banking team as they had made an error on my overdraft facility, which was removed unexpectedly only a few days after it had been agreed as a permanent measure. This was not the first time this had happened; in fact, only a week beforehand the Telephone Banking team had made exactly the same mistake. This had been a simple matter for the team to correct in the first instance (for which I also made a complaint, resolved within 5 working days and was credited with a goodwill payment of £30.00 and told it would not happen again), and called expectantly, although a little aggravated that it has happened once more.

To my horror, I came across a rather rude and arrogant agent, who informed me that I would need to go through a completely new application for the overdraft facility that I had only set up days earlier. I was, quite frankly, appalled by the agent’s attitude and the process she was explaining to me. I explained the fact that I had only set this up days earlier and felt it would be a waste of my time and money to go through the 25 minute application once again (as this would need to be passed onto the specialist team for these queries) to clear up their error, only to be told that this was the process and I could “take it or leave it”. I lodged my complaint during this call, after speaking to the agent’s supervisor. I was told I would hear from them within 5 working days.

I received a letter, dated 28th February 2008, confirming that my complaint had now been passed on to your department, the Customer Service Recovery team based in Birmingham. The letter read as follows:-

“Dear Mr ********,

I am just writing to let you know that we’ve received your complaint and to say how sorry I am to learn that you’re unhappy with us.

You have my assurances that we will investigate the concerns you have raised with us – this may take a little time but we would expect our enquiries to be complete within the coming 20 days. We will then be able to respond in full to your complaint and at this stage, I hope, resolve matters between us.

Yours sincerely

Michaela Lea

Customer Service Officer”

After receiving this letter, I waited the 20 days you requested, and unfortunately, I did not hear from you. I actually allowed your department a further 10 days before contacting you, giving you a further 5 days outside of your stated timescale and also allowing 5 days for postal turnaround. Still, I had not heard anything. I took it upon myself to contact you after this time, using the telephone number (0121 224 3547) quoted on the letter I had previously received. To my dismay, I could not get through to any person at your offices in Birmingham, and left 17 voice messages between the dates of 29th March 2008 and 1st May 2008, and was expecting a return call from yourselves within 2 hours, as stated on your recorded message at the time. At no point did I receive a reply.

On several occasions, I also contacted both your Telephone Banking team and Head Office in Gresham Street, London, both of which sent numerous emails to your department asking you to contact me, none of which were acted upon by yourselves.

For a long time now I have had the right to contact the Financial Ombudsman Service regarding this complaint, but wanted to give your company a chance to explain its actions. I finally managed to get in touch with your department by telephone in early November, to be told that you had replied in writing to my complaint around the 3rd March 2008.

I requested that your colleague send me a copy of this letter, as I had not received this in the post and had not been contacted to check that I had indeed received this. I also asked your colleague to confirm the content of this letter during our conversation, to which I was most disappointed. In no way did the response address the complaint, only confirming that Lloyds TSB apologised for any inconvenience that the overdraft problem had caused and that it wouldn’t happen again. This is not good enough. I reopened the complaint as your department had ‘so kindly’ closed the file and taken it as settled, even though I had left around 30 messages, by both email and voice message, for you to contact me. I was this time told that your team needed 14 days to investigate my initial concerns as stated at the start of this letter, even though it had now taken over 30 weeks for the initial response to be communicated to me and hadn’t even answered the concerns in the first place, again, a major disappointment. However, I allowed this time for your department to respond, and had hoped I would have received a response by now. I still haven’t as of the date of this letter, nor have I received a copy of the first letter.

I am now giving Lloyds TSB their final warning. I will not hesitate to take this to FOS if needs be. You have had a ridiculous amount of time to respond to my complaint properly, I have spent a vast amount of time trying to get to the bottom of this and now is the time to respond. I give you notice of 7 working days (including Saturdays) from the date of this letter to respond, whether in writing, by telephone or by email, for which my contact details are enclosed at the end of this letter.

I would like the problems addressed, and also some form of compensation for distress, telephone calls, the initial concern and the time it has taken for you to produce a valid explanation of your incompetence. I have already contacted the FOS on an enquiry-only basis, and, based on the time you have taken to contact me and that this complaint has not been dealt with in the correct manner, not only do I have valid grounds to pass this complaint onto FOS, but you will also be subject to an FSA fine of approximately £300 for breach of regulations with regards your dealing with this complaint. You will doubtless be aware that complaints that are forwarded to the FOS can be subject to financial penalties whether the complaint is upheld or not (i.e. case costs are not incurred by the consumer), and also leave a bad mark on the company’s compliance records with the FSA. I am giving you the opportunity to avoid this and save these costs in settlement of my complaint.

Therefore, I breakdown my first and final offer of financial settlement of £180, without prejudice, as follows:

Telephone calls and correspondence (£20.00) – Up to 35 telephone calls were made to both the Customer Service Recovery team, Telephone Banking and Head Office in London. Costs - rate of 25p per minute to London, 12p per minute to Telephone Banking, and 5p per minute to Birmingham, also this letter and any further contact initiated by myself or Lloyds TSB.

Initial concern (£95.00) – Due to the fact that this complaint has not been dealt with in the correct manner, and that I still have not received a thorough response to my initial concerns after 9 months of waiting, I expect a financial award of £75. I feel this fair as this same problem had happened only a week before, after which I had been told it would not happen again, and had been given a ‘goodwill payment’ of £30 for my inconvenience.

Distress and time taken to contact (£65.00) – I feel this would be a fair settlement for the time I have spent trying to contact you, taking over 7 months to finally get in touch with you, leading me to feel like my complaint had simply been ignored. Also for the way your agent had spoken to me during the initial conversation and the fact that I was expected to go through a completely new application to set up an overdraft facility that had been wiped off due to your company’s error

I am sure your company has the best interests of their customers at heart, which is why I have given Lloyds TSB an opportunity to admit wrongdoings and settle the concerns of a previously very loyal and valuable customer. I can only allow so much, however, and I must reiterate that this is Lloyds TSB’s final chance. If my queries are not resolved within 7 working days (including Saturdays), and unless I am compensated as outlined above, I will have no alternative but to take my complaint to the FOS, who will be more than willing to take my case on. Furthermore, I would like to reiterate my disgust at the disgraceful treatment I have endured during this sorry affair. I wait to hear from you.

Yours Sincerely,

Mr ******* *******

 

I am sick of waiting for them to explain their incompetency, after 30 weeks of chasing and getting nowhere, and feel I should be compensated in some way, considering I am quite within my right to take this to FOS, whose fees are in the region of £300-400, all paid for by the bank. FOS have also already informed me that they would fine Lloyds TSB around the same amount for breach of complaint regulations. Just wondered if I am taking it too far with the amount I am asking for. Your views would be greatly appreciated.

 

Cheers,

 

Wolvesman

[BankFodder]

Any breach of complaint procedures and they brick it.

 

Sorry, I haven't read through the entire thread but I did notice this comment of yours.

 

I only wish it were true.

Frankly, I don't think that they are too bothered. They routinely break the terms of the Code. If FOS action was really effective and really expensive and really public then yes they would brick it and they would start taking things a bit more seriously.

 

In any other utility-type industry, persistent breaches of regulator guidelines would lead to large fines and lots of embarrasing publicity. FSA has erecently fined Egg a large sun of PPI misselling but that it pretty unusual.

The FOS route is mainly meaningless. Of course you may get some redress for yourself - and this is not a bad thing. However I don't think that it would be correct to say that even a succesful FOS complaint is likley to persuad any bank to change their way of doing busness for other customers.

 

However, if as is expected, the banks find themselves the subject of more effeictive regulation, then things might change. Don't hold your breath, though

[NYM]

Hi,

 

I too have waited for Lloyds to address a complaint that I made to them....6 years I've waited. well, it will be on the 21st of this month.

 

I wasn't aware of any action that I could have taken to force a response until I came upon this site. Undoubtedly, it's far too late to contact FOS or anyone else about it now.

 

But I'm still thinking about it......

[mariolatomczyk]

UNHAPPY LLOYDS TSB CUSTOMERS | Facebook pls guys post your comments and complaints maybe this way we will get somwhere

[LOLA555]

THIS WAS THE EMAIL I SENT TO THE LLOYDS TSB CHAIRMAN

 

Hello

 

I live in the West Midlands. I have a serious complaint and I am GETTING NOWHERE with the branch who were supposed to be dealing with my problem

 

To summarise:

 

I received letters and phonecalls asking me to attend an appointment to discuss my account in April/May 2009

 

 

• I was PRESSURED into taking a loan I did not want BUT only agreed to take it after the agent PROMISED and shook my hand that the interest rate of OVER 22% would drop to around 7% or 8% after a 6 week period. She also said I had NO CHOICE but to also have the PPI and could not cancel for a 6 month period.
  

 

• I returned in July as scheduled BY HER to have my rate of the promised 7% or 8% only find she had been SUSPENDED due to giving customers false information
  

 

• I complained to the branch manager **** who noted everything and said he would investigate and deal with this.
  

 

• Also a man called ***** based in South Wales was supposed to ring me about the insurance part of the complaint last November and has yet NEVER rang me! I am told his manager is called ****
  

THIS ALL STARTED IN EARLY JULY, LAST YEAR - 2009

• Since then I have had only a handful of phone calls asking me if I received my PPI refund for a totally UNRELATED LOAN FROM 2 YEARS AGO!
  

 

• I had spine surgery on September 15th last year and I called the day before, September 14th and cried and said I was desperate to get closure on this issue, I asked that if they had NOT resolved this issue BY END OF SEPTEMBER that they do NOT take the loan payment out of my account and put some sort of freeze on my account until such times as they SORT IT OUT.
  

 

• 2 weeks later I received a letter saying they had added a CHARGE to my loan for £307 for the PAYMENT HOLIDAY - I was disgusted and horrified, what a JOKE!
  

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE somebody help me get this whole mess sorted out

 

I do not dispute I owe Lloyds TSB money, but I have been treated appallingly and NOBODY seems to be doing anything despite countless calls I have made to my local branch who RARELY call me back.

 

I spoke to a lady called ***** at the ***** branch a few days before Christmas and she actually stood and CRIED in front of me because she said she cannot believe how terribly I have been treated. Her number is **** **** ****.

 

 

I have had numerous arguments with my husband, who works with his family in their own Solicitor's Practice, mainly because he cannot understand how I could fall for a lame promise from a bank agent about the interest rate, I suffer many sleepless nights due to this whole mess.

 

Please can you help me?

 

Kind regards

 

******

[jdes26]

Lola

 

We Can Help

 

Explain Your Situatuation Please And We Shall Get To The Bottom Of It.

Why Did You Need Loan ... Do You Have Agreement?

[jdes26]

Lola You Need To Start Your Own Thread.... And Then You Will Get Answers

[LOLA555]

Hello

 

I had a few 0% interest credit cards that were due to end the special rate and return to around 15% within a 3-6 month period. Also I had a small amount owed on a TSB overdraft and she said that I could get my daughter a car. (which I did not really agree with).

 

The bank woman told me that if I started the loan at around 22-24% that she would give me a MUCH BETTER RATE OF INTEREST of around 7-8% which is the ONLY reason I took the loan out!

 

Anyway - I have since had a phonecall from somebody at the chairman's office who have PROMISED to investigate and ring me tomorrow

 

WE SHALL WAIT AND SEE

 

Lola

[jdes26]

so you had a loan

Which they put PPI on thst you didnt want.... they will have a recording of that conversation and you can get that to prove you didnt want it... that wud be a legal SAR request which cost £10.... you can put a count in dispute and not pay anything until its resolved

i can show and tell you how if you need info

[LOLA555]

Hiya

 

There is no recording - she denied it

 

They are dealing with the PPI now I believe BUT I want my interest rate I was promised and the £307 charge back

 

What I would like the most is for a VERY GOOD settlement figure under the circumstances - say around HALF

 

That would be a miracle!

 

Lola

[jdes26]

LOLA

 

NOW LISTEN........

thats rubbish there will be a recording and if they deny that they can be fined heavily.

Firstly you want a copy of the loan agreement so we can evalute what you actually signed for. Its called a CCA request it cost £1 and they have 12 days + 2 to provide it. Once you have that you then ask them for a data request and find out exactly what u paid and what apr %interest rate and the PPI payments you have paid. THIS IS LAW you are entitled this information. Now once you have this you can deal with theses idiots

[LOLA555]

Hello

 

It was a face to face meeting and she made little or no notes. I was on my lunch break from work and she knew I was in a hurry!

 

Believe me I WISH I had actually recorded the convo on my i-phone!

 

I do have written down exactly what apr interest rate and the PPI payments I have paid so far - and they know this

 

This is sooooo frustrating

 

Lola

[jdes26]

YOU NEED AGREEMENT... and you need the details make a complaint to the FOS heres there number FINANCIAL OMBUDSMAN SERVICES SOUTH QUAY PLAZA 183 MARSH WALL LONDON E14 9SR

0845 080 1800

you see lola there is a procedure step by step and you will get a result... i have claimed all ppi from loan £2400 lloyds also ppi on credit card mbna £1062 credit card charges mbna £980 llyds credit card charges £540 still in progress and lloyds tsb ppi credit card £590 + ci + 8% still in progress so please TRUST ME it can be done with spirit fight and knowledge things get sorted

now stop being upset pour yourself some wine and with this site we will try and sort out your loan/PPI and you never know you might just get a couple grand to spend on a chanel bag if we can prove you were mis sold

 

x.

[LOLA555]

Hello

 

I feel I was ABSOLUTELY mis-sold this loan

 

Would they 'write it off'?

 

Lola

[jdes26]

NOW your getting it lola

If you can prove you were missold PPI you get back ALL PAYMENTS

 

EXAMPLE IF you paid £60 per month 4 12 months thats £720

so u get back £720+ contract interest + 8% what a court would award

But you have to prove it........... but with caggers we will try and help you do this... and if i can do it ANYONE CAN

u get me hun?

[jdes26]

PPI misselling can render CCA loans unenforceable - Very significant for new CCA agreeements

 

User Rating: / 0

PoorBest

A recent judgement at South Shields county court may have far reaching effects not only for pre-2007 Consumer Credit Act agreements but also for Consumer Credit Act agreements under the new 2006 legislation.

 

The case which was brought against MBNA in respect of an alleged credit card debt was decided for the claimant predominantly because MBNA were unable to provide a true copy of the original credit card agreement. This is very established law and causes no surprises as this principle has been often tested since 1974. In fact the only real surprise is that MBNA decided to defend the case at all.

 

What is particularly significant about this case is that there had also been mis-selling of Personal Protection Insurance (PPI). The judge referred to this aspect of the case in her judgement and decided there had been an unfair relationship between the claimant and MBNA because of the way she had been sold payment protection insurance.

 

This case is highly significant for claims brought under the old 1974 legislation because it adds another important basis upon which Consumer Credit Act agreements may be rendered unenforceable. This is in addition to the very much more usual ground for an enforceability that the agreement is flawed in some way because it is not properly executed, or that a true copy cannot be produced by the lender.

 

It now seems highly likely that even where an agreement seems to be properly executed, if the agreement has been accompanied by PPI which has been mis-sold, this mis-selling itself is a basis upon which to vitiate the entire loan agreement.

 

This principle that a Missold insurance policy is capable of tainting and invalidating the entire agreement is likely to become a very dominant feature in challenges to Consumer Credit Act agreements which have been concluded under the new 2006 legislation.

 

Whereas the 1974 legislation required very strict adherence to highly detailed requirements in any agreement, as well as requiring a fair and balanced relationship between the contracting parties, the 2006 Act is not so concerned with the form of the agreement and whether all of the I's have been dotted and the T's crossed. The entire focus of the 2006 legislation is upon the relationship between the lender and the borrower and seeks merely to ensure that there is a fair, balanced, transparent and nonabusive relationship between them.

 

The decision at South Shields County Court suggests very strongly that where an apparently fair agreement is accompanied by mis-selling of PPI, then that mis-selling may well be taken as evidence that the lender has exercised an unfair relationship and has therefore tainted the entire loan agreement.

 

This seems to be an entirely satisfactory state of affairs and is probably a very necessary style of reasoning in order to serve as a very strict warning to lenders to do not conduct themselves properly that the consequences for them will be severe.

 

Of course, this was only a County Court Decision. It would need to be decided at High Court or Court of Appeal level to become completely authoratative. Would any finance company dare go to the senior courts and risk a binding decision which would destroy the millions made out of loanagreement tied to [problem] PPI deals? Unlikely, but on the other hand we have seen for years now that the finance industry are incapable of thinking strategically when it comes to litigating against their customers.

 

It is only this kind of far reaching decision that is likely to drum home a properly-learned lesson into the mindset of the finance industry.

 

If you rip off your customers in anyway, then the consequences may well be that you will lose far more than merely a refund of premiums.

[LOLA555]

Hi

 

I did get back the PPI on a loan I paid off early 2 years ago - that was settled in December

 

This new matter is unrelated - I am only due to get back around £250.

 

My main concern is being mis-sold the ACTUAL LOAN itself

 

Lola

[jdes26]

then speak to FOS they will help you and and make an OFFICIAL COMPLAINT