Jump to content


  • Tweets

  • Posts

    • A full-scale strike at the firm could have an impact on the global supply chains of electronics.View the full article
    • He was one of four former top executives from Sam Bankman-Fried's firms to plead guilty to charges.View the full article
    • The private submersible industry was shaken after the implosion of the OceanGate Titan sub last year.View the full article
    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
  • Recommended Topics

  • Our picks

    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
      • 1 reply
    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
        • Thanks
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 161 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
        • Like

Welcome Finance Investigation


style="text-align: center;">  

Thread Locked

because no one has posted on it for the last 4987 days.

If you need to add something to this thread then

 

Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

Recommended Posts

Don't worry about me i'll be fine i've got through a hell of alot worse :).

 

I'll probably leave the work thing and just sort out the wages that i'm owed and leave it at that as i don't feel strong enough to deal with a tribunal at the moment.

 

I think the letter is great i'll post it to them tomorrow and see what they say, i've also changed the Global letter to put 'in dispute' instead so i'll post that too.

 

See how they like that :D

 

Thanks for all your help yet again i really appreciate it

 

AL

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Replies 450
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

dipply

 

we are trying to get an answer from welcome ref these insurances and its obviouse we have hit a nerve

 

just a thought

 

we know welcome front load these insurances for max profit and pay the underwriter a fraction of the payment. thats if there is a third party and not welcome themselves (alledged )

 

how do we know these insurances are front loaded, the customer is charged to that effect by welcome, but i have yet to have proof to that.

 

i have allways believed these insurance policies are kept in house and direct group try to give it credability, unholy alliance comes to mind

 

welcome allways neglect to include this info in sar requests

 

the truth will come out

Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting postggj. will have a dig about, I need to understand more about front loading etc.

 

If it was all done in house (allegedly), the direct group/welcome thing would be a very convincing paper smokescreen. Either way - each policy had to have been underwritten by someone, which there must be a papertrail for. If there is nothing to hide then why can't we get basic info from a simple ppi policy?

 

If they were not underwritten? Big trouble.

Dipply75

 

I am in no way a legal advisor and only speak from my own experiences and the helpful advice of those in the same boat! :p

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi there not sure if this of any help but I too am trying to reclaim PPI from welcome, just dug out all my paperwork including a leaflet on PPI which was given to me in 2005. the key facts of the policy are summarised & 2 insurance companies are mentiond: Direct Group Ltd & Norwich Union.

not sure if tis of any help or what it tells us?:confused:

Link to post
Share on other sites

i've been to court with welcome re: PPI and lost.

 

two of the issues were that the PPI agreements (which were supposedly original copies) had addresses on them which i didn't move to until three years after taking the loan out!! so i alleged that the policy documents did not exist making the policy void as it was impossible to make a claim without the documents which never received.

 

secondly, i SAR'd Direct Group who sent back saying they had no information on me at all, no policy numbers or anything. when i showed this to the judge, welcome produced an email string of a conversation between welcome and direct showing that they had trouble with locating my account and had written to me later in the claim (nothing received by me of course). very convenient i thought and this evidence was not submitted prior to the hearing.

 

i lost by the way purely because it said Optional on the agreement

Link to post
Share on other sites

welcome need to be investigated by oft, just because form said optional does not make it optional,,,, when they say the loan will not be given without taking out the insurance ( this is not optional especially when you are vulnerable.... and lets face it if you were not vulnerable you would not be approaching welcome.... the reason you are there is because of a poor credit file.... CRA have a great deal to answer for... It is no wonder the entire financial system is in the state it is in.

Only direct action by the masses will work....

 

Look at all successes they have never come from negotiation!!!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi pears23, thankyou, helpful info as it seems that agreements up to around 2005 stated clearly Norwich Union on the agreements as the insurer - after that the wording changed to "a reputable insurer". My older agreement (2003) listed Norwich Union, my partners in 2006 was the vague reputable insurer. Can you tell me if this was just on the back of the agreement or did you have an actual 'key facts' document? I have read you are supposed to get these but have no idea when this started!

 

Hey mcfadwmc - firstly, hats off to you for taking them on. I take it you had one of those judges that would believe any crap put in front of them? I am so sorry you lost, from what I read it was a ridiculous decision. Fergal is right, the OFT and the FOS need to pull the finger out.

 

I can't believe there aren't enough complaints logged not to arouse any suspicions so far. I know I am due a refund but I would much rather see them properly investigated and see the truth come out.

Dipply75

 

I am in no way a legal advisor and only speak from my own experiences and the helpful advice of those in the same boat! :p

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi, Sorry not been on for a while BT cut me off and they don't even know why.

 

Anyway i've recieved a letter dated 6th Nov from Global saying Welcome have instructed them to start litigation the day after Welcome recieved a letter from me regarding the questions on the PPI.

Also i recieved a phone call from a company that claim to keep certain companies files upto date and they were ringing for Welcome asking to confirm my name, address and employment status. I can't remember the name of the company as she kind of said it under her breath. she asked me to confirm my details once i questioned who she was she went through my details and asked me to confirm it instead and then quickly hung up the phone. The number was witheld.

Global should of also recieved there letter on the 7th saying that i will not consider any offers for clearing the account until the disputes that are currently with FOS and ICO are resolved.

 

Do you think they will start litigation or are they just trying to scare me because of my complaint

 

AL :)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi pears23, thankyou, helpful info as it seems that agreements up to around 2005 stated clearly Norwich Union on the agreements as the insurer - after that the wording changed to "a reputable insurer". My older agreement (2003) listed Norwich Union, my partners in 2006 was the vague reputable insurer. Can you tell me if this was just on the back of the agreement or did you have an actual 'key facts' document? I have read you are supposed to get these but have no idea when this started!

 

Hey mcfadwmc - firstly, hats off to you for taking them on. I take it you had one of those judges that would believe any crap put in front of them? I am so sorry you lost, from what I read it was a ridiculous decision. Fergal is right, the OFT and the FOS need to pull the finger out.

 

I can't believe there aren't enough complaints logged not to arouse any suspicions so far. I know I am due a refund but I would much rather see them properly investigated and see the truth come out.

 

Loan was taken out july 2005 and this information is stated in a leaflet entitled "take the worry out of repaying your loan", a policy summary & key facts. hope this helps.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Animal lover, thought you had got bored of us lol. Very strange that phone call....what was all that about? Can you post the Global letter on here? Folk on here are getting good at spotting companies standard threatograms as opposed to real threats.

 

There are some strange happenings going on to a few of us with the same type of complaints in against them...check out the recent posts on this link:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/37780-welcome-finance-any-dealings-51.html

 

Think yours is connected too?

Edited by Dipply75
forgot to add the link - sigh

Dipply75

 

I am in no way a legal advisor and only speak from my own experiences and the helpful advice of those in the same boat! :p

Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh pears23, (eyebrows raised!) I got all excited when I read your post (sad, I know lol)....is there anyway you could post a copy of leaflet on here for us to see?

 

I am dying to see what their version of a keyfacts leaflet looks like, it may be very useful indeed! ;)

Dipply75

 

I am in no way a legal advisor and only speak from my own experiences and the helpful advice of those in the same boat! :p

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi formerwfsemployee

 

i know it was a while ago, but can you remember if Welcome took responsibility for the IPT levied on the single premium policies and paid it, or did you just pass the premium to the insurer and let them take care of that?

Dipply75

 

I am in no way a legal advisor and only speak from my own experiences and the helpful advice of those in the same boat! :p

Link to post
Share on other sites

Bt probably cut you of for not paying your bills animal lover!!!

 

Actually that's not why as i wouldn't be on now would i, and like i said they don't know why it happened, they would of told me there not like Welcome who treat there customers like xxxx on a constant basis.

 

if you haven't got anything to say about the thread and instead post comments that make people feel small knowing that other people can read it then don't bother posting.

 

Dipply

 

As soon as i find the letter i'll post it. The thread is very interesting and yes it sounds alot like the things there doing to me so it will be interesting to see what happens.

 

I haven't had any replies to the letters i sent to Welcome and Global so who knows maybe i might get a visit next

 

AL

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi guys,

 

whats the big problem with welcome?

 

Is it the add-on insurances or more?

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

Click Here To Make A Donation

I am not legally trained or qualified, any advice i offer is gleaned from experience and general knowledge, if you are still unsure after receiving advice please seek legal advice.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Martin2006

 

They are experts at taking advantage of people, for huge profit. When you visit a branch everything is done in a tiny private room, all verbally, with high pressure selling techniques, lies and even forgery.

 

No application forms are filled in, you just have a 'chat' where they seem all concerned, lovely people. Welcome know that when someone approaches them, they need the money and this is where folk are really taken advantage of - me included. This chat is to figure out how desperate/vulnerable you are. They new the tax credits messed up my claim and I was desperate for money to pay childcare - she then knew she could get away with murder with me. tactics include:

 

Taking all your details verbally - they then go into another room and enter all your details into the system. Many have discovered total lies were entered to approve huge borrowing they would not have got.

 

No application forms, so no proof.

 

When the salesperson returns with the agreement already filled in or completes it in front of you, the cheque is placed on the table in front of you. They only tell you how much you can borrow and what your monthly payment is and focus on the affordability of that payment. Unless you know ask nothing else will be explained to you.

 

If you DO ask there are various tactics - 'you won't get money anywhere else, the rate is so high because of the risk (65%??), the system decides the figures nothing I can do, if you don't miss payments we can re-negotiate a cheaper deal later in the loan, just phone me (thats a cracker) - all while holding the cheque in front of your face.

 

The agreement, which has not been discussed at all, is slid across the desk and you are asked to sign 'here and here' - while they still hold the top of it (in my case she actually covered all the figures at the top with her hand as well)

 

If you spot the PPI added you are told 'no ppi, no loan', it is company policy etc, again while holding that cheque in front of you. No health related questions, nothing about paying interest on the premium, no discussion at all except 'sign here'.

 

Once you have signed? they will mark your credit file, even if yo uhaven't missed a payment, which keeps you going back to them. Miss a payment (even by a few days) and there are letters and calls, charging you for each. Mysterious charges are levied, sometimes hundreds of pounds. They will visit your house over and over and charge you each time - knowing people think they have no choice in this "you signed a contract, thats it" crap.

 

And the PPI - the high premiums are taken, but no-one can every find any trace of an actual policy being opened anywhere, underwritten by anyone. They even refuse to tell you who your insurer apparently is! Hmmm, suspicious

 

They cannot wait to get you to re-finance and arrears are the biggest doorway to that.

 

Prime example - I knew of one couple, in their late 60's, who had unsecured borrowing and owed about £8-10K. Illness struck, got into arrears and they went to the branch to ask for help. They were warned they could be made bankrupt, lose their home, not much could be done except re-financing the loan which would have to be secured. This would require PPI, every other type of insurance welcome sold 'for protection', fees for the arranging the security blah blah. They were advised basically that this was their only option and by the time they left they had borrowed £26000. By the time they will have paid it off in about 15 years, they will have paid over £75000 for an £8-10K debt. Probably paying that for the rest of their days. I still feel sick every time I think about that.

 

I have always worried about that couple and hope they managed to fight that and get away from them.....but that is a PRIME example - not a one off.

 

Sorry for the novel, but they really get me going :mad:

Edited by Dipply75
more disgusted ranting!

Dipply75

 

I am in no way a legal advisor and only speak from my own experiences and the helpful advice of those in the same boat! :p

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yep that's what happened to me, well put Dipply

 

Recieved letter from Welcome today saying there doing an investigation into the points i have raised and will contact me as soon as they conclude it.

Usually within 4 weeks - probably need that time to think up new excuses as i don't see why they need to investigate it they just need to answer it.

 

AL

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yup:D Investigate what exactly lol...they are simple enough questions asking for basic facts about your insurance policy and their membership to the FLA.

 

Maybe its all locked in that big filing cabinet called "stuff no-one will ever know to ask"?

 

Well, since my old agreement listed Norwich Union as the insurer - letter going off to them to complain about my policy, their involvement with the likes of Welcome, the blatant abuse going on in NU's name that they should be aware of and that they should reconsider authorising them in future etc.

 

Lets see what response that brings

Dipply75

 

I am in no way a legal advisor and only speak from my own experiences and the helpful advice of those in the same boat! :p

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...