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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

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Who has had Managed Loans?


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HI and welcome first as i have always said that you will get a lot of good advice on here,we are all trying to get our charges back from this dreaded loan which has caused me a lot of heartache,i went to cab to if there was anything i could do, so go and have a word with them to put you in the right direction how much was you loan for?well i will let others help you now,you cant have much to live on if you are paying that amount i think HSBC has got a lot to answer for they just make my blood boil,keep your chin up we are here to help

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Well, I must be the biggest mug here...

 

I'm on my second Managed Loan with these guys, I was told at the time that this was my only option available (my 2nd loan) as I had a poor credit rating and would be unable to get a loan elsewhere and was forced onto this.

 

My first time was when I had returned to being a student and was again given the old, this is your only option as we cannot extend your overdraft any more excuse, I've had charges on my account, PPI missold (when I was on a temporary working contract) however a small amount of this was refunded when taking the managed loan out (I'm going to do a separate post on that later).

 

But today I've asked them if they can convert this to a normal loan and have been advised that because I have recently been turned down for a credit card that I should not try re-applying for 3 months...

 

I don't know what to do with these guys, but rest assured as soon as everything is sorted out I will be heading off to a different bank.

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Hi, skye300801, Andena pointed me in your direction. :)

 

I'm not sure how watertight your Managed Loan agreement is, so I can't really comment on that at the moment. What did strike me was that you were refused Payment Protecton when you asked for it (because you were part-time?)

Were they charging an extra premium for PPI in your loan repayments - if so , you may have a case for mis-selling...........try this link and see if it helps:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/payment-protection-insurance-ppi/

Nemo me impune lacessit

 

 

Advice & opinions given by johnnymitch are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

 

If you think I've helped you please feel free to tickle my star :-D

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Hi, would just like to thank everyone, as reading all your post finally pushed me to ring the bank, and unlike many of you they were very helpful (i wonder why), they have suspended my managed loan for 3 months and stopped all interest on it so hopefully can sort somethng out in the next 3 months thanks again for all your help will keep you updated of what happens in next 3 months.

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Hi, would just like to thank everyone, as reading all your post finally pushed me to ring the bank, and unlike many of you they were very helpful (i wonder why), they have suspended my managed loan for 3 months and stopped all interest on it so hopefully can sort somethng out in the next 3 months thanks again for all your help will keep you updated of what happens in next 3 months.
i think they suddenly realised that we are not going to let them get the better of us,great news for you that's what we want to here.:)
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Hey, I'm new to all this, but I've got a managed loan, still owe about £8,000 but have now opened another account with the Halifax cos I just couldn't cope with all the bank charges, about £200 a month for years, so have now defaulted on the loan, they've prob closed the account and chasing me for payment of loan etc, but I've moved. Am thinking of re-claiming my bank charges, but what do you think? Is there any point when I still owe them £8,000 and have just walked away from the account? I don;t know how they expect people to be able to pay their loans and live when they charge ridiculous amounts of money? :p

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Hey, I'm new to all this, but I've got a managed loan, still owe about £8,000 but have now opened another account with the Halifax cos I just couldn't cope with all the bank charges, about £200 a month for years, so have now defaulted on the loan, they've prob closed the account and chasing me for payment of loan etc, but I've moved. Am thinking of re-claiming my bank charges, but what do you think? Is there any point when I still owe them £8,000 and have just walked away from the account? I don;t know how they expect people to be able to pay their loans and live when they charge ridiculous amounts of money? :p
who is the Managed Loan with
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Hey, I'm new to all this, but I've got a managed loan, still owe about £8,000 but have now opened another account with the Halifax cos I just couldn't cope with all the bank charges, about £200 a month for years, so have now defaulted on the loan, they've prob closed the account and chasing me for payment of loan etc, but I've moved. Am thinking of re-claiming my bank charges, but what do you think? Is there any point when I still owe them £8,000 and have just walked away from the account? I don;t know how they expect people to be able to pay their loans and live when they charge ridiculous amounts of money? :p

 

When did the loan start?

Are the charges on a business or personal account?

How much do the charges amount to?

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When did the loan start?

Are the charges on a business or personal account?

How much do the charges amount to?

 

2004, I think, and it's a personal account. Not sure how much charges amount yet. Have literally just started doing something about reclaiming them, i.e joining consumer forum . . .

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Hi Madame , welcome to the forum

 

First of all, you should open up your own thread on the HSBC forum - it'll be easier for people to give you personal advice . You'll get plenty of support on here and we're a friendly lot - so just ask - someone will come up with an answer.............

Just to get you going though try this link:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/faqs-please-read-these/31460-example-step-step-instructions.html

Best of Luck

johnny

Nemo me impune lacessit

 

 

Advice & opinions given by johnnymitch are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

 

If you think I've helped you please feel free to tickle my star :-D

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Am thinking of re-claiming my bank charges, but what do you think? Is there any point when I still owe them £8,000 and have just walked away from the account?

 

This decision is up to you of course, Madame - when you send for a S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) they'll know where you are . But if you have a substantial amount of charges to reclaim it may be worth doing, just to start clearing your financial situation.........

 

Also ,if the actual amount you owe is in dispute , which it will be if you're reclaiming charges , they can't chase you for repayment anyway.

Nemo me impune lacessit

 

 

Advice & opinions given by johnnymitch are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

 

If you think I've helped you please feel free to tickle my star :-D

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Have posted a separate thread under HSBC Bank (apols, not good enough with computers to add in a link). Has anyone here thought of using the new provisions of the Consumer Credit Act 2006 which deal with Unfair Relationships? Provisions come into force for pre-existing contracts on 6 April this year so there's a bit of time to get organised. From the reading of this thread I'm thinking that it may be a way out of these agreements...

 

P.

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If you would like to enlarge on how you see this affecting or benefitting claimants, Principessa - lay it out in a bit more detail and ask a moderator to post it forum-wide (maybe on a sticky)....It'll save you posting on all sites............:)

 

johnny

Nemo me impune lacessit

 

 

Advice & opinions given by johnnymitch are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

 

If you think I've helped you please feel free to tickle my star :-D

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Ah thanks again pete, I hadn't realised there was another thread so close on the same subject ...... :)

 

Makes interesting reading -about time railroaded loans were dealt with.... as with PPI ....it's sad -:( banks used to be institutions you could trust............

Nemo me impune lacessit

 

 

Advice & opinions given by johnnymitch are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

 

If you think I've helped you please feel free to tickle my star :-D

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Trust is a strange word, you have to be very careful with everyone these days and make your own judgment of how much trust to give them. my family have recently fallen out with the family solicitor of many years in a matter of probate, we employed them to give us advice and guide us at a time of personal loss... they failed miserably :mad:

 

you can trust the Mafia just never ever fall out with them :D

 

pete

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I know pete, but these are professional bodies which we should be able to trust........it's part of their code -or used to be.......:mad:

 

I liked your take on the mafia - they'll be round yours in the morning Ha-ha -ha! :D Cement overcoat on the M6 pete? laffin!

Nemo me impune lacessit

 

 

Advice & opinions given by johnnymitch are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

 

If you think I've helped you please feel free to tickle my star :-D

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I have a meeting this week with HSBC regarding my ML.

HSBC would like me to restart an earlier ML because my current ML is not correctly executed....(they have about as much a chance of that happening as me winning the Grand National aboard our lurcher!- and Elvis finishing second on Shergar)

 

So why am I going along? Well I am going to ask them have they included the complete repayment of my ML with compounded interest in the £8.7bn bad loan debt that they have written off.

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HSBC Fiddled - have you already had the non-executed ML judged non-enforceable? I think (again, any moderator who can confirm??) that this new law coming in on 6 April will not allow agreements to be automatically unenforceable...

 

Can anyone tell me if, when I do a SAR letter, I can also get a copy of the original personal loan agreement from 2003 (ie not the managed loan) and copies of my credit card statements that were rolled up into the ML? I can't view the statements on line anymore.

 

Also, another technical one - apols, I am currently out of the UK and my only address for service at the moment would be in Scotland. What does this mean for the choice of court of HSBC? Would it just go to their nearest court to head office? Does this affect me going back 6 years? Will I be limited to the Scots law 5 year limit?

 

Any help appreciated.

 

P.

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HSBC Fiddled - have you already had the non-executed ML judged non-enforceable? No not judged but HSBC accept that the most recent ML is not executed properly. I think (again, any moderator who can confirm??) that this new law coming in on 6 April will not allow agreements to be automatically unenforceable...Does this mean we would have to take court action to make unenforceable?
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I sent of to hsbc for my original M/L in january and have not heard back they had my postal order but have not received my agreement back shall i write to my bank in weymouth, what do you advise please.sorry for butting in.

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Well I am going to ask them have they included the complete repayment of my ML with compounded interest in the £8.7bn bad loan debt that they have written off.

 

Oh dear, HSBCfiddled, if they haven't they'll have to scrape it out of the £12bn which they still made:rolleyes: - obscene or what?.........:mad: :grin:

Nemo me impune lacessit

 

 

Advice & opinions given by johnnymitch are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

 

If you think I've helped you please feel free to tickle my star :-D

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I sent of to hsbc for my original M/L in january and have not heard back they had my postal order but have not received my agreement back shall i write to my bank in weymouth, what do you advise please.sorry for butting in.

 

1. Stop making payments.

2. write to Head office.

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Oh dear, HSBCfiddled, if they haven't they'll have to scrape it out of the £12bn which they still made:rolleyes: - obscene or what?.........:mad: :grin:

 

 

Yeah too right...If it wasnt for the charges they would have been in the red and getting charges from THE BANK OF ENGLAND.:)

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