CPW/T-Mobile Help Needed Please (Long)

[figgis01]

As a long time lurker (but not a member) I would be very grateful if someone could give me some legal advice on a problem I have with CPW/T-Mobile. I have copied below the letter that I have sent to C Dunstone at CPW (it is rather long, sorry) and am waiting for a reply. I believe that even if they wont cancel the contract, I am within my rights to demand a new, different model phone. Please help!

 

Quote

Having taken out various contracts with Carphone Warehouse over the years, we decided to once again use their expertise. On 25th March, we visited the ** branch and, after being told we would have no problems with T-Mobile as we were with Virgin, we took out two contracts with two new handsets, Sony Ericsson W890i.

 

This information was wrong. As we had outstanding minutes with Virgin, we didn't use the new phones for a week. It was only then that we discovered that we had been mis-sold the phones as they couldn't get a signal or when they did you could not move as the signal would drop (from 4 bars to none). I sent an email to CPW on 2nd April and explained that the phones/network were unacceptable as the phones kept cutting off/loosing signal. We were invited to the shop where they changed one battery (faulty) and changed the setting from 3G to GSM only. It was hoped that this would solve the problem. It didn't. After various conversations with both customer services and the branch, it was agreed that CPW would change the phones, but only like for like.

 

We returned to the shop but unfortunately they didn't have any in stock and had to order them. The phones were changed on 11th May, but even on the way home, one phone had five bars, the other had one. I contacted CPW who said that they (the branch) sadly could do no more and that I should contact Customer Services. I did this but they said that there was nothing further they could do and that I should contact T-Mobile.

 

On contacting T-Mobile on Tuesday, 13th May, I was advised that they would contact "the channel feedback team" which apparently liaise between T-Mobile and independent retailers. Numerous phone calls later, I was told last week that I would finally hear in 3 days. It is now 6 days and apparently T-Mobile have not had a response from CPW. Speaking to T-Mobile yesterday, I have now said that I wish to cancel the contracts. I have stated from the outset that the handsets/network under SOGA were not fit for purpose but I wanted to give both CPW and T-Mobile the opportunity to rectify the situation. Both have failed to do so and as the phones are costing so much more than anticipated, e.g. dropped calls means having to redial, calls missed for potential work, I would be very grateful if you could now intervene and authorise the cancellation of the contracts for the telephone numbers above (without incurring any penalties or any further monthly payments) and supply me with both PAC codes.

 

Unquote

 

Thanks for any help/advice you are able to give.

Edited June 4, 2008 by figgis01

[pin1onu]

As a long time lurker (but not a member) I would be very grateful if someone could give me some legal advice on a problem I have with CPW/T-Mobile. I have copied below the letter that I have sent to C Dunstone at CPW (it is rather long, sorry) and am waiting for a reply. I believe that even if they wont cancel the contract, I am within my rights to demand a new, different model phone. Please help!

 

Quote

Having taken out various contracts with Carphone Warehouse over the years, we decided to once again use their expertise. On 25th March, we visited the ** branch and, after being told we would have no problems with T-Mobile as we were with Virgin, we took out two contracts with two new handsets, Sony Ericsson W890i.

 

This information was wrong. As we had outstanding minutes with Virgin, we didn't use the new phones for a week. It was only then that we discovered that we had been mis-sold the phones as they couldn't get a signal or when they did you could not move as the signal would drop (from 4 bars to none). I sent an email to CPW on 2nd April and explained that the phones/network were unacceptable as the phones kept cutting off/loosing signal. We were invited to the shop where they changed one battery (faulty) and changed the setting from 3G to GSM only. It was hoped that this would solve the problem. It didn't. After various conversations with both customer services and the branch, it was agreed that CPW would change the phones, but only like for like.

 

We returned to the shop but unfortunately they didn't have any in stock and had to order them. The phones were changed on 11th May, but even on the way home, one phone had five bars, the other had one. I contacted CPW who said that they (the branch) sadly could do no more and that I should contact Customer Services. I did this but they said that there was nothing further they could do and that I should contact T-Mobile.

 

On contacting T-Mobile on Tuesday, 13th May, I was advised that they would contact "the channel feedback team" which apparently liaise between T-Mobile and independent retailers. Numerous phone calls later, I was told last week that I would finally hear in 3 days. It is now 6 days and apparently T-Mobile have not had a response from CPW. Speaking to T-Mobile yesterday, I have now said that I wish to cancel the contracts. I have stated from the outset that the handsets/network under SOGA were not fit for purpose but I wanted to give both CPW and T-Mobile the opportunity to rectify the situation. Both have failed to do so and as the phones are costing so much more than anticipated, e.g. dropped calls means having to redial, calls missed for potential work, I would be very grateful if you could now intervene and authorise the cancellation of the contracts for the telephone numbers above (without incurring any penalties or any further monthly payments) and supply me with both PAC codes.

 

Unquote

 

Thanks for any help/advice you are able to give.

 

You are on the right track using the SOGA- as the problems have been with you from day 1 you should be able to seek damages against the retailer.

 

I'd be inclined to send them a letter before action warning if they don't get their act together you will seek to recover damages under the SOGA in county court. Give them 14 days and take them to court.

 

I'd also escalate to the top people in the organisation (it's amazing how quickly things move if you press the right buttons) T-Mobile director of sales is listed on their website as Gordon Ballantyne and there is an e-mail link. CPW UK chief exec is listed as Andrew Harrision. A letter to both may work wonders.

[figgis01]

Thanks for your reply pin1onu, much appreciated.

 

Have noted the LBA but what damages would I actually seek against CPW, the cost of cancelling both of the T-Mobile contracts plus the extra costs incurred by going over allowance due to dropped calls etc? It may be worth noting that I cannot allow T-Mobile to keep the numbers as they are work related.

 

If I do not receive an answer to my letter, I will take your advice and send a copy to Gordon and see what he comes up with.

 

As an aside, C Dunstone is founder and CEO of CPW so I guess I've sent my original letter to the right person

[figgis01]

I have received a reply from CPW and I've copied it below along with my response. If anyone can give any further advice, I would be very grateful. I will be sending an LBA as advised by pin1onu if I don't hear anything by Wednesday (ie after giving them a week to reply)

 

Many thanks

 

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]

Sent: 05 June 2008 11:21

To: ***

Subject: Re:handset repair [scanned]

Dear ****

 

Thank you for your email.

I tried calling you today at 11:10 on telephone number **** but there was no response.

 

I am sorry to hear of the inconvenience you have experienced in regards to your handset signal failure.

Having looked in to this matter further, I can see that T mobile have contacted our CEO department in regards to your wish to cancel the contract. The CEO officer in charge of this case has stated that it is not possible for you to cancel your contracts with us, but you are able to bring in your handsets for repair.

 

I am sorry that there is nothing further I can do in regards to this issue as this matter has been dealt with by the CEO office which has greater authority over my department.

Kind Regards

Customer Support Team

 

 

To: '[email protected]'

Cc: '[email protected]'

Subject: CPW/T-Mobile Complaint - Help Needed Please!

Dear

Thank you for your email and trying to telephone me on my home phone number but, like most people, I work and that is why my work phone number is always added to my emails.

 

As I understand from T-Mobile, it is your customer services department who made the decision to only offer to repair the phones as they stated that if the repair failed, then my complaint would be escalated, which is why I wrote to Charles Dunstone only to be replied to by someone else from the "Customer Support Team".

 

I hope that you will understand our frustration that we have had replacement phones which also exhibit the same fault and we have been trying to remedy this for several months to no avail. As we have been loyal customers of CPW for several years, we would have hoped for a more satisfactory response from Customer Services. We have little confidence that a replacement or repaired phone will work any better and would request that the phones are replaced with an alternative new model of equivalent value.

 

If you are unable to grant the request for new telephones, then I am of the opinion that under the Sale of Goods Act the telephones are not fit for purpose and therefore, as I believe that I have given you and T-Mobile the opportunity to solve the problem, I feel it may be necessary to take legal advice.

 

Due to the poor reception of the phones, received calls are often automatically diverted to Voice Mail which under our tariffs cost 20p per minute. Therefore, please remove the Voice Mail service from both phones immediately and confirm when this has been done.

Regards

[buzby]

What I cannot understand, is that the coverage you had with T-mobile, would be IDENTICAL to that provided by Virgin Mobile. Why? Virgin actually uses T-Mobile's network infrastructure! If there were issuesw with coverage, it would be related to the handset either being faulty or not sensitive enough.

[figgis01]

You are quite correct Buzby, Virgin do indeed use T-Mobile (apparently 30%) and that was explained to us in the shop. The reason I've now asked CPW for new phones (rather than disconnection) is that I want to give CPW/TMobile every opportunity to rectify the situation before taking any legal action. If new (different model) phones also don't work........

 

Sadly we also thought that "you wont have any problems with TMobile as you are already with Virgin" they had the same rules re rolling minutes (not that that matters at the moment) and also Voice Mail charges (which does matter)

[buzby]

I don't know who told you 30%, it's quite a bit more than that. (100%, to be precise). Virgin Mobile is an MVNO (Mobile Virtual Network Operator), they own absolutely NO network infrastructure, and they totally rely on T-Mobile (One-2-One as was) for all their coverage.

 

As for 'legal action' you Do know they are not legally required to provide you with ANY coverage? It's in the T&C's of all the networks!

[figgis01]

Oh good grief, no I didn't know that T-Mobile are not legally required to provide any coverage!

 

Does that also mean that CPW (whom I am asking to replace the phones as that is where we got them from or take legal action against them) are not legally required to "sell" us phones that work? What do you suggest I do now? Take the offer of repair or...... Do I have no legal rights (under SOGA) at all?

[buzby]

Can you get hold of another T-Mobile handset from a friend? If the issue is one of handset sensitivity, then you've a great chance to invoke SOGA as the handset, whilst otherwise 'working' is effectively blind to the lower power signals available at your location. By proving this (another handset that works absolutely fine) you could assert that a 'repair' is not going to fix the problem.

 

Do remember that all phones are NOT equal - even those of the same make, model and batch. Each will have varying degrees of performance issues, but manufacturers don;'t aim for them all to fit the same target figure, there is a range of parameters they must fall within and THAT gives plenty of scope for one handset to be markedly better than another. Getting a 'deaf' handset repaired may do nothing much, unless the complete RF stage is replaced....!

[figgis01]

Great minds think alike We put one of the sims into an old phone this morning and, as far as I am aware, it seems to be working (no dropped calls or straight to VM).

 

So, if CPW refuse to exchange the phones for a different model, only repair the W890is, what is my next move?

 

Very many thanks for your help

[buzby]

In that case, depending on your actual time using the handset, it is your right to decide whether to accept a repair or replacement. If under 30 days I'd expect a boxed replacement as your rights under SOGA. Do be wary, they may try to palm you off with a refurb" which may well be OK, but it may have been similarly returned!

 

*Refurb (Refurbished)

[figgis01]

We've been trying to sort this out since 2 April! We have tried replacement (like for like) phones but they had the same problems. Since then I have been trying to get either new (different model) phones or cancel the contract. Does that mean that I've got no chance now because it is over 30 days? The replacement phones were picked up on 11th May, does that help at all. Do I need to storm the branch today

 

Thanks again Buzby

Edited June 10, 2008 by figgis01

[buzby]

Because you accepted a replacement means SOGA cannot now apply, as you lose the right to reject the goods (because you already accepted a replacement). Your contract is separate from your phone, as this continues irrespective of what handset you choose to use. I would think a chat with the manager is called for, you need his discretion to resolve the issue. The words to use a 'handset sensitivity', your location requires a good signal, and the handsets you've tried just don;t cut it. And OLD handset you've tried does, so if the handset isn't up to the job required of it, you're looking to him to provide one that can! The more reasonable and polite (whilst persistent) you are, the more he's likely to attempt to resolve your problem.

[figgis01]

Thanks Buzby, the manager, whom I have known for a number of years, has told me quite categorically that he cannot do anything, it is out of his hands.

 

I have spoken to Consumer Direct this afternoon and they advise that under the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982, CPW are in breach of contract as the goods provided under the contract are not of a suitable quality. They also stated that the manager should have been able to sort it out! I have now written to CPW (via Recorded Delivery on CDs advice) stating the above and requesting resolution within 14 days (i.e two new, different models with equivalent retail value). Guess now have to sit and wait.

 

Will keep you posted.

[buzby]

TS are wrong, unfortunately - as you lose those rights (of a new replacement) when you accept ANY swap from the original - it ONLY applies to the first item you recieve.

 

Next time, I'd vote with your feet and buy elsewhere! Good luck.

[figgis01]

Well looks like I did something right as I've got two cancelled contracts and my PAC codes Nice.