Jump to content


  • Tweets

  • Posts

    • He was one of four former top executives from Sam Bankman-Fried's firms to plead guilty to charges.View the full article
    • The private submersible industry was shaken after the implosion of the OceanGate Titan sub last year.View the full article
    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
  • Recommended Topics

  • Our picks

    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
      • 1 reply
    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 161 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
        • Like
  • Recommended Topics

Questions from : Have you received threatening demands for debts older than 6 years?


style="text-align: center;">  

Thread Locked

because no one has posted on it for the last 2808 days.

If you need to add something to this thread then

 

Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

Recommended Posts

Send both letters in the same envelope. DO NOT sign them and DO send by recorded delivery.

 

Hi, sorry I'm new here, found when Googling looking for something on Robinson Way, however this thread pulled my attention.

 

When you say, "DO NOT sign them" please explain. Do you just have your name typewritten at the bottom of each but don't physically sign? Or do you mean your name shouldn't appear at all?

 

I'm not being funny, I'm just confused... I get that a lot... I'm the type that ends up in bother even though I've done nothing wrong LOL

 

Also, why wouldn't I sign such a letter? What bad things can a DCA or anyone else do to me if I do that?

 

Many thanks in advance

Have a great day

T

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Replies 457
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Philr1

If limitation don't work argue that any action after all this time would be highly prejudicial to your case

 

Time Limits in Equity

The doctrine of laches does not apply where the law provides a limitation period. In that event the claimant has the full period within which to launch proceedings.

The defence of laches is normally relevant, therefore, in two distinct situations. First, where the cause of action arises at common law but equity affords a particular remedy, such as specific performance, which is not available at common law. In these circumstances, the claimant will lose his remedy if he delays unreasonably and fails to act promptly, often within a matter of days or weeks. Secondly, laches may also be a defence where the cause of action arises exclusively in equity and no statutory limitation period applies to the cause of action, e.g. where the claimant seeks to set aside a transaction for undue influence, mistake or fraud.

Relief may also be refused in these circumstances on grounds of delay. But in these circumstances the critical question is usually whether the claimant acted promptly after becoming aware of his or her legal rights. If the claimant was ignorant of his or her right to bring proceedings until years after the event, e.g. because he or she remained under the influence of the wrongdoer or was wholly ignorant of the facts giving rise to the claim, the claimant may not be barred from seeking relief, even years after the event

 

Relevant judgement

 

Judgement - Nurdin v. Peacock

Link to post
Share on other sites

ok, views differ so here is mine:-

 

it is possible that the the s78 request is likely to go to a different department to be dealt with ( it usually goes into the main office and they then make computer requests for production of the agreement.

 

there is no legal requirement for it to be signed.

 

a SAR is always given, without any other interference- to the Data controller so there is much less likelyhood of it getting lost in the office somewhere else

 

many caggers will argue that the creditor or dca has been dealing with them over a number of years and sending staetments etc and that they are just being awkward when they write back in response to a SAR and ask for a signature or ID

 

that may indeed be the case, however it is also the case that the data controller may NOT necesarily be involved in the day to day running of the credit account - indeed he may be based at an outsourced or contracted out archive centre and as such may have no previous knowledge of dealings with the customer

 

the SAR can take up to 40 days

 

there is a lot of nonsense talked (IMO) as to creditor lifting signatures off one document and putting them on another (allegedly an agreement)

 

Just as a cheque can be "crossed" to prevent fraud- so can your signature be crossed if this aspect is a concern to you

 

otherwise you can lose vital weeks arguing the toss about signatures when what you probably need rather quickly is the information you are requesting

 

It is no big deal which way it is done but personally I would send them seperately - if you send them together the letter will go into the general office for the s78 request to be dealt with and then the SAR forwarded direct to the data controller (who could be off site) and much more chance of things going missing.

 

(also In any further proceedings it is useful to be able to have a recorded delivery slip attached to each request)

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
if it is the CCJ they are trying to enforce it does not become statute barred

Understood that bit

 

however

 

they cannot enforce the ccj if you have not paid it for over 6 years without applying to the court

 

a/ they seem not to be the original claimant

 

b/ they would have to produce the judgement to the court (the court will NOT any longer have a hard copy)

Can I confirm please?

If the CCJ was to be enforced, does it have to be the OC who applies to the court to enforce the debt, or can any old DCA apply to the court to "enforce" the CCJ / debt.

 

Basically, RW have contacted me re an 18 yeard old debt, it's not SB as a CCJ was awarded in 1996, but I'm concerned if RW decide to "enforce" the CCJ by seeking permission from the court.

Link to post
Share on other sites

you are kidding.... 1996!!!

they dont stand a chance!

 

it has to be in their name unless they have purchased the debt and the oc has written to you saying they have sold it to them and they write you a notice of assignment.

 

ignore them totally

 

hehe they are scrapping the barrel here somewhat!

 

thats why we call them robin ways!

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

Link to post
Share on other sites

you are kidding.... 1996!!!

Yes, the alleged debt is from 1992, a CCJ was awarded around 1995 / 1996, I'm going to write to RW informing them they need the courts permission before I enter into any dialogue with them.

 

From what I've read about RW, they don't go away easily, which is why I'm writing and insisting they go through the court before contacting me again.

 

Thanks for your help.

Link to post
Share on other sites

1992 gets even better...

my mrs still gets an annual anal poke for a debt from 1983.

 

i would not write to them at all.

 

how do you/they know there is a CCJ & two it has not already been paid off.

 

simple they dont!

 

ignore them

 

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

Link to post
Share on other sites

as far as i am aware only the claimant can apply to enforce (which would IMO include someone acting on their behalf)

 

a claimant with a debt as old as the one you mention is about as likely to get permission from the court to enforce it as I am of getting catherine zeta jones and katherine jenkins in bed with me at the same time!

Edited by diddydicky
Link to post
Share on other sites

how do you/they know there is a CCJ & two it has not already been paid off

About 5 years ago before these type of forums existed, I was contacted by a company called Global, they said it was not SB as a CCJ was awarded, (they supplied the the CCJ reference number) so I called the court, and was informed they had to apply to the court to enforce the debt, I informed Global of what the court said, and heard nothing more, until now.

 

as far as i am aware only the claimant can apply to enforce (which would IMO include someone acting on their behalf)

Thank you

 

I'm going to write to RW because from reading, they send people round, I don't want anyone turning up at my door, I've moved on from 1996, and don't wish to that part of my life to be dragged up again.

Link to post
Share on other sites

a claimant with a debt as old as the one you mention is about as likely to get permission from the court to enforce it as I am of getting catherine zeta jones and katherine jenkins in bed with me at the same time!

If I just ignore them, they won't go away from what I've read.

Link to post
Share on other sites

and if you write them you are opening up a whole can of worms and that way they will def NOT go away as their phishing trip has caught a fish that is worried.

 

you certainly wont get a doorstep visit for a debt that old

 

so, does the current leech know about the CCJ?

if they do, its because you got suckered into talking to global

  • Haha 1

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

Link to post
Share on other sites

it won't hurt or harm you position to make it clear

 

Dear Sirs

 

i refer to you letter of XXXXXXXx

 

 

if you feel that a court will grant you permission to enforce this CCJ no doubt i will receive notification in due course.

 

in the meantime all future communications will be filed unanswered

 

Y F

  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

it won't hurt or harm you position to make it clear

 

Dear Sirs

 

i refer to you letter of XXXXXXXx

 

 

if you feel that a court will grant you permission to enforce this CCJ no doubt i will receive notification in due course.

 

in the meantime all future communications will be filed unanswered

 

Y F

 

:D :D Simple

 

On the other hand, I created a 3 page letter going into great detail about aboy OFT guidelines (some great template letters on here) who I'll complain to and they need the courts permission for any alleged debt etc., etc.,

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks to you both, may I ask, is there anyway to stop these alleged debts being passed around, for example from Global to RW, etc., etc., or do I just have to go through the same paper exercise each and every time a new DCA contacts me.

Link to post
Share on other sites

IMHO, the more you write the more 'mug awaits' markers get put on the DCA phishing list.

they certainly will not put on there that you chased them off because it was sb'ed or unenforceable or WHY so thay legally cannot fleece...else they next leech will not 'buy' the debt.

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Right, lets get thigns straight, first off, upon having not very nice comments on here on my last post,|I have been lying low, last week,was court datewith us and a dca...if we hadnt have taken legaladvice and gained representaion, we wouldof lost,end of. Lost our house, so its allwell n good harping on about fight fight fight...sometimes you cannot. For us, even though we have agreed a vol charge,it is written in a contract by our solicitor who was a godsend...sumofem are decent out there. So, whilst i used to take advice of this site and take every piece of advice to heart, this could have lost us our home!!

 

We got what we wanted and at least the dca know we have a solicitor so they are being very nice. becasue that was my wife's issue, i just got involved in it as didnt want to lose the house obviously..written in to it is the fact they cannot sell it etc..the other side only recieved instructions 3 mins fromcourt time, had not complied with sar etc..we culd have screwed him court but we had already withdrawn the application to set aside so wasa lost cause..first judge was right stuck up, thsi was months ago.,she refused the set aside even if when i got advice fro the affadavit. The judge last week was very nice, obviously much older and wiser than the previous one. So, thanks to allwho helped with the affadavit, but,wen it comes to your home,please seek legal advice. Plus, dca's are now using your professions against you..i.e teachers etc..as a set aside would have to be decvlared to your employer and bankrupty petitions...ery nasty tactics. So I am here, but wiull not tolerate the bashing i had last time from other members. We are gratefulfor the advice,and they do read this site...(dca's that is..

 

i don't think anyone on this forum who gives advice does so for a monetary gain, unlike a solicitor who may or may not be acting purely for financial gain,

 

Nor does anyone on this forum guarantee success- if we could we would bottle it and sell it!

 

Nor do i think you would have "lost your house" if you had followed advice on this forum

 

the facts of the matter are that for whatever reason- you were not forthcoming with the documents and information that was required in order for folk to give you the best advice, therefore you were the author of your own downfall in that respect.

 

any poster on this forum seeking legal help and who is not prepared to post up the documents he refers to (minus identity) is always going to be treated with suspicion

 

I am pleased that your solicitor has got the result you wanted

 

is that all we can help you with, - or is there something else?

Link to post
Share on other sites

style="text-align: center;">  

Thread Locked

because no one has posted on it for the last 2808 days.

If you need to add something to this thread then

 

Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...