do i have to pay back more?

[tomato08]

I left my last employer last December owing them around £500, the remaining amount owed for a course I undertook. When i left i was asked to sign to say i would repay the amount when I was paid from my new job but heard nothing from them about repaying. I moved house in January and subsequently forgot about the money I owed, until last week when I received a voice message from a debt collector company saying if I didn’t contact them in the next few days they would be starting legal action.

I called them back and discovered they had been sending letters to my old house, which I was unaware of. I agreed that I would pay the money back, however I couldn’t afford to do so in one lump sum but could pay back in monthly instalments – of which I proposed £30 per month (after looking at my finances to see what I could afford.)

I have just received an email from the debt collector saying that my ex-employers have rejected my offer to pay £30pm as it would take too long to repay the debt and said they would accept £60pm.

I’ve looked again at my finances and I cannot afford to pay £60pm due to other financial commitments such as mortgage, bills etc.

I signed to say I would pay back the money but the contract did not state when the money was to be repaid by, how I was to go about repaying or whether I was to repay monthly, weekly or in one lump sum.

Can they make me pay more? Can they start legal action if I don’t pay them what they ask?

Any advice anyone has in this area would be most appreciated!

[hanzo]

If they took you to court, and you put in a time-to-pay application, the court would generally see an offer of repayment over 1 year as reasonable. anything over a year and it would likely be rejected (naturally with regards to your circumstances). £40 per month would pay it off in about a year. Try offering them that.

[Weird Al Yankovic]

I disagree.

 

If £30 is what you are only able to afford then then that is what you should offer. Especially with no prior arrangement of terms of repayment in the original contract.

 

If they refuse to accept this then by the time it gets to court your circumstances may change where you could be out of work and you may only afford a £1 a month. However, a change for the better and you may be able to afford £50 a month.

 

Detail this to them. If they still refuse then I would suggest they are being unreasonable and could pay out court fees and costs for a situation where you have agreed to pay what is owed at a rate you can afford.

 

I doubt they would consider court action when knowing this.

[hanzo]

No. You cannot know the internal procedures of the debt collectors. We do not know whether they will raise proceedings against the OP. They have a debt that is admitted as lawfully due, they have demanded payment, and they have not received payment. They would be perfectly entitled to raise proceedings against the OP, and they would get their expenses. What is a reasonable time to pay/payment arrangement would be for the court to decide. If the OP were unemployed at the time of judgment, then the pursuers would still get a decree. The only thing that would change would be the ability of the Pursuers to enforce that decree.

[Weird Al Yankovic]

They have not received any payment as they have refused them.

 

That is a very different scenario. The OP has acknowledged the debt and offered payment.

 

Why would the OP jepardise their mortgage payments to pay an unaffordable unsecured debt that had no original terms of payment in the first place just to satisfy a debt collector?

Edited May 31, 2008 by Weird Al Yankovic

[tomato08]

thanks for the advice on both sides - might give it a try offering them £40pm at a push, but i really cant afford to go any higher than that at the moment.

although the main reason i cant afford to pay back much more that £30 a month is because in the 2 months before i left, my ex-employer took half of one months salary without telling me or giving me advance notice and then took the entire months salary the next month - i was told of this beforehand but when i contested it they refused any other option. This consequently put me in a large amount of debt which i am still trying to pay back.

Do you think its worth trying to push for the £30pm on this basis or should i give in a little and offer them £40pm - £10 per week? i'm just a bit worried that if i agree to pay £40, they might try and push for more money again and that i'm going end up with more financial problems!

i understand they they want the money back as soon as possible and that my financial situation is irrelevant to them but can they really dictate how much i am to pay?

like you say, my financial situation may change and i may be able to pay more at some point in the future but also, may end up with no way to pay at all!

[Weird Al Yankovic]

But your financial situation is relevant to them as it is the basis of what you can afford to pay.

 

If £30 is affordable then pay it. If only £20 is affordable then pay that.

 

All a court action will prove is what you are able to pay, you are not even disputing the debt. If, as you say, £30 is your limit then I fail to see how the court will order more than that in the circumstances of the contract.

[hanzo]

Ah, well that changes things substantially.

Are you still owed money by them? Even if they eventually paid you, if you have racked up debt because of the late payment you would be perfectly entitled to counterclaim for the debt caused by their actions as losses cuased by breach of contract in the event they did raise proceedings against you.

If the debt caused is about £500 then why not put it to them that you would counterclaim and suggest a compromise agreement to drop all claims to or by.

[tomato08]

well the money they took was to cover the bulk of the cost of the course and this £500 is the last little bit owed. (long story but basically the course was £3500 and i had to pay 1/2 as long as i stayed with the company for 6 months afterwards, but i left after 5 months a 1 week meaning i had to pay the 1/2 paid by the company - which they took the month and a half salary towards, leaving just £500 left to pay when i left).

 

I'm happy to pay it back as i said i would but i dont want to get into more debt by doing so. I will email them and offer £40pm as i just want to get them off my back!

 

I dont really want it to get to the point of court though, as it may affect any applications made by me or my partner in the future and i dont really want it to put marked against our new address.

[Guest Old_andrew2018]

well the money they took was to cover the bulk of the cost of the course and this £500 is the last little bit owed. (long story but basically the course was £3500 and i had to pay 1/2 as long as i stayed with the company for 6 months afterwards, but i left after 5 months a 1 week meaning i had to pay the 1/2 paid by the company - which they took the month and a half salary towards, leaving just £500 left to pay when i left).

 

I'm happy to pay it back as i said i would but i dont want to get into more debt by doing so. I will email them and offer £40pm as i just want to get them off my back!

Hi having read what debt collectors do to get money off people I suggest you send your ex-emloyer your offer directly, it quite possible that the DCA have not put your offer to them.

 

I dont really want it to get to the point of court though, as it may affect any applications made by me or my partner in the future and i dont really want it to put marked against our new address.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[heartopp]

Ok. I dont know everything... But,

 

1st - From what I know, and if you look into the debt stection for more. DCA can not refuse a payment, and i think that this is under the OFT Guidelines, so as long as you can prove that you can only afford 30.00, you only pay £30.00.

 

Also, they would have to prove the debt is yours to a court. They would have to have the signed aggreement. Your ex employer would also have to have this, so you could just send a SAR to them, to see if they have it.

 

This could also push them into them accepting £30.00. From past experiance with a halls of resedence, I find it best to deal directly with the employer.

[popeye1]

I think they did not have the legal right to deduct from a persons wages without that persons approval,put that bit in to all the best

[heartopp]

I think they did not have the legal right to deduct from a persons wages without that persons approval,put that bit in to all the best

 

I guess he would have to look at the contract of his employment, but it does normaly say " we can deduct any overpayments, and stuff... "

 

Well not stuff, but you get the idea!

[popeye1]

But other than tax,ni we have to agree with them how they deduct it,they need our agreement

[Alexandra45]

There were no original terms on the repayment therefore you could come to your own terms on how you wanted to repay. You didn't sign anything to say you would give them a certain monthly installment so you could decide your own terms, as long as it didn't involve paying them back over something like a 10 year period! I would say push for the 30 pounds because it is wrong that they put you in a difficult financial situation upon you leaving and then won't except your terms on paying it back. Hope it all works out for you

[tomato08]

thanks!

 

i went back to them witha maximum offer of £40pm and said that i cannot afford to go any higher than that due to other financial committments so waiting to hear whether they agree to that or not. although i sent this via email almost 3 weeks ago and have not had a response as yet.should i chase the debt collector or is it best left waiting for them to come back to me?

 

i'm just worried that they will refuse this offer of payment as well and will end up taking me to court to try and make me pay back more over a shorter period.

 

i may contact my old employer to find out who is dealing from there side adn try and negotiate with them rather than through the debt collection company and its already dragged on for almost a month.

 

thanks for everyone's advice-much appreciated

[tomato08]

i've had a response...

I emailed my ex-employer directly yesterday as I had not had a response from the debt collection company to my offer to pay £40pm and explained to them (my ex-employer) that I could only afford to pay £40pm and the reasons why. I thought it would be easier to negotiate and liaise with them directly rather that going back and forth through a third party.

I have just heard back from my ex-employer and they have refused my offer of £40 per month and have insisted that they will only accept £60per month and they said if I am unable to comply with this they will be forced to pass the matter back to the collection agency.

However, by chance I happened to check an old email address to find a response from the collection company (even though I told the debt collection company that I rarely used and that my work email was the best way to contact me and all communications from me had come from my work address) to say that their client (my ex-employer) had accepted the £40pm on the basis that I started payments immediately. This email was dated earlier this week.

Where does this leave me?? I definitely cannot afford to pay back £60 per month and wonder where I stand in negotiating the amount am I to pay back?

I’m worried that if they pass the matter back to the collection agency they will take me to court to prove I can only afford £40pm but I really don’t want it to get to that point!

Can I go back to my ex-company with the email I’ve just found and re-negotiate seeing as they had already agreed the amount with the agency?

[Weird Al Yankovic]

You have been advised on what best to do in the circumstances but you appear to just be ignoring any help offered.

 

Why are you going around in circles?

[tiglet]

Possibly because the OP is nervous, Al - perhaps you could try being a little more compassionate?

 

Back on topic, if the DCA have put it in writing to you that your ex-employer has accepted £40 per month, then start paying that - afterall, their only threat at the moment is to refer it back to the DCA.

 

Paying back course fees - was this in your contract of employment?

[Weird Al Yankovic]

Possibly because the OP is nervous, Al - perhaps you could try being a little more compassionate?

 

Back on topic, if the DCA have put it in writing to you that your ex-employer has accepted £40 per month, then start paying that - afterall, their only threat at the moment is to refer it back to the DCA.

 

Paying back course fees - was this in your contract of employment?

 

 

Maybe, perhaps tiglet, you read through the initial post and subsequant posts more clearly?

 

The contract of employment is not the most significant factor here.

It is the agreement to repay course fees the OP was asked to sign after he left.

 

The issue is what the OP can afford to repay as no repayment instructions were detailed within this agreement.

 

The OP has indicated that £30 a month is affordable but £40 is a struggle.

 

Advice given is that if £30 is all that can be offered then that is the amount that should be offered.

 

Instead the OP ignored this and offered £40 which was still refused as they want £60.

 

Now, the employer can threaten what they like but if £30 is what is affordable for the OP, in the absence of an agreement with no repayment details, then they can scream and shout all they like as it is unlikely any court would increase this amount.

 

If the OP chooses to ignore this advice then they are just asking the same thing over again.

 

What is the point in that?