self employed cis payments

[agamemnon]

Hi im not sure how I stand here and maybe someone might be able to point me in the right direction.

Being self employed I am registered with CIS for tax payments and contractors are required by law to pay a % of my wages to the tax man. this is not a problem when I subcontract as the contractors pay CIS for me. the problem I have is when I need to use an agency to cover any gaps I might have in work. It seems that all the agencies use a 3rd party company called the Guild to pay any CIS payments. The Guild charges 8.33% of any payment for a handling fee and the agencies all say they will not pay me direct nor will they pay my CIS payments direct so I dont seem to have a choice but to pay for this service.

My problem is twofold

A. 8.33% is a very large chunck of wages just to do a payment on mybehalf.

B. I am in effect being forced to use a second accounting service on top of the payments i would need to make for my year end books.

Are these agencies allowed to stipulate you need to have one of these handling companies and are these companies justified (allowed) to charge as high a rate as 8.33% ?

[Goldlady]

Hi, this sounds very wrong. I would suspect it is in the contract you have with the agency, but it is a rip-off. I presume if you refused to use their handing company you wouldn't get any work, but I think it needs looking into further.

[agamemnon]

they give no choice but to use a handling company. the problem i see is that every employer on paye pays your tax and ni without charging you for this so why should they be allowed to farm out the tax payments at a fee i have no control over

[Goldlady]

You are so right, I am just not sure what you can do about it.

 

Maybe you should ring the Inland Revenue and ask their advice. Thinking about it if an employer has to make deductions from someone's wages for council tax/fines etc they are allowed to charge the person £1 for doing so (although most don't).

 

Can you not just tell the agency that you are quite capable of calculating your own CIS and that you do not want to agree to this arrangement? If other people are in the same situation I bet there are others who object too.

[Weird Al Yankovic]

I think this is a classic hurdle one encounters when being self employed rather than being employed.

 

I feel for the OP but I have been there too. One tries to get off one's arse and be a wealth creater yet gets hit for something ridiculous like this.

 

It's a farce.

[Goldlady]

Tell me about it Weird Al - self employed for fifteen years, kept who knows how many people in jobs whilst getting SFA ourselves, been to hell and back, and it is getting progressively worse. How the country is going to survive at all when those who try to create wealth for the economy, for themselves and for others are treated so badly is something I can't even begin to understand. Mind you I would not like to go back to being an employee either:D

[donald1234]

Hi all,

I'm in the same situation as posted above, when i first started working for my current agency, i was told i could have the job providing that i enrolled through their choice of 3rd party payments company to handle my CIS deductions,This was fine at the time as i had been out of work for sometime,But it was still around 4% more expensive than the one i had previosly used. I have since found out that the agency recruiter working on behalf of the agency recieves commision for every worker they enroll onto there company etc....It seems so unjust.....To top it all off i have just been informed by my manager where i work at present...not the agency!!! that as of last week,my hourly rate has been reduced..I spoke to my point of contact within the agency and it was left as a case of like it or lump it or in his words" There's 20 people waiting to fill you position MATE!!!"...... What can i do?!!!!

 

With my cis deductions and 3rd party margin i effectively pay 26% tax

no NIC

 

Feel a bit better now!!!!

thanks for listening

[RTBuilding]

I know about this contractor and they definitely don't charge 8.33%. They have a flat rate charge which can be as little as £10 and for that I got four levels of insurance, pay text messages and same day payment guarantee. No problems at all! Hope this helps?

Hi im not sure how I stand here and maybe someone might be able to point me in the right direction.

Being self employed I am registered with CIS for tax payments and contractors are required by law to pay a % of my wages to the tax man. this is not a problem when I subcontract as the contractors pay CIS for me. the problem I have is when I need to use an agency to cover any gaps I might have in work. It seems that all the agencies use a 3rd party company called the Guild to pay any CIS payments. The Guild charges 8.33% of any payment for a handling fee and the agencies all say they will not pay me direct nor will they pay my CIS payments direct so I dont seem to have a choice but to pay for this service.

My problem is twofold

A. 8.33% is a very large chunck of wages just to do a payment on mybehalf.

B. I am in effect being forced to use a second accounting service on top of the payments i would need to make for my year end books.

Are these agencies allowed to stipulate you need to have one of these handling companies and are these companies justified (allowed) to charge as high a rate as 8.33% ?

[barriejohn69]

As an accountant I agree with a few of the posters on here. The guild situation is immoral in some ways but the amounts quoted here are in someones imagination unless they are earning £100 a week. Having dealt with 120 people who deal with them in the last month I can say it is a lot less than that.

 

Don't get me wrong I think it is a cash cow but speaking to my cients most said they would rather be in work and pay around 1.5-3% as a fee than be on the dole. When you took the job you mybe shouldhave looked a little clser at the small print. I am dealing with people from the North East down to London and the highest fee paid is around 3% which is covered by the "holiday pay" element you receive.

[wayneb]

Hi all

As an ex employee of The Guild, and now with a competitor, allow me to explain.

 

Recruitment agencies are not allowed to pay C.I.S directly as it breaches HMRC's IR35 rules on employment. So the agencies have a choice, pay you as an employee and have additional costs of holiday pay and employees national insurance, or save that cost and use a "3rd party"

 

The Guild are a contractor who assist agencies by placing you on their books as one of their self employed contractors, and therefore subcontract you to the agency.

 

The scheme works as the agency can either pay you more to go C.I.S, charge the client less for you, or keep the margin to themselves. You get to keep your C.I.S status, and do your end of year return as usual, but as it's agency work, have to pay The Guild a fee for the privelage.

 

The Guild charge £10 if your Gross pay is £299.99 or less, and they charge £18 if you earn £300 or more. This is taken off before you are taxed and so actually in true terms costs a little less. After tax they then take a £3 fee for your public and employers liability as well as your accident insurance, health and safety assistance and text messaging service.

 

I hope that helps many of you, I have moved to a different company who in all honesty are more competitively priced than The Guild but won't advertise on this site. Feel free to contact me if you do want to know more.