Exmonkey&nw

[Michael Browne]

Daily rate is £3058 X 0.00022=£0.67p

[exmonkey]

thanks again i told you maths wasn't my strong point

[exmonkey]

went down to the court yesterday still no defence filed to the court so i filed judgement .

does anyone know how long i'll have to wait ?

[exmonkey]

can anyone tell me if i have to reply to cobbetts because they havn't entered there defence with the court. the only thing i have got is the letter mentioned earlier in this post.

any help would be gratefully recieved

[DNA]

went down to the court yesterday still no defence filed to the court so i filed judgement .

does anyone know how long i'll have to wait ?

 

It all depends if the Court have a backlog or not. I'm based in Manchester and quite often see a few days' delay at both Manchester and Salford County Courts. Gone are the days when I could go to the counter at Manchester County Court and get a sealed Judgment in my hand within 5 minutes!

[DNA]

can anyone tell me if i have to reply to cobbetts because they havn't entered there defence with the court. the only thing i have got is the letter mentioned earlier in this post.

any help would be gratefully recieved

 

I would hang on until you hear about the result of your request for Judgment. If you receive a sealed Judgment, then don't reply. You might yet get a notice from the Court saying the Defendants have filed a Defence and you now have to file an AQ. I had a claim recently where because of an administrative error at Court, I submitted a request for Judgment and three days later I get notice that a Defence had been filed - the reason? A district judge said that it was in the overriding objective that a Defendant had to have a chance to defend the claim even if they were late in filing their Defence!

[exmonkey]

thanks for the advice i think i'll wait for something of the courts

[exmonkey]

well it's been 3 weeks since i filed judgement and still nothing from the courts they keep telling me it will be done next week apparently they've got a backlog.does anyone know if they have to work to a timescale for dealing with judgements etc.

[katesage]

no idea on the timescale for judgement but wondered whether Natwest filed a late defence at all?

 

 

good luck on everything:)

[exmonkey]

when i phoned the courts 2 weeks ago they said that no defence had been entered

[exmonkey]

ok received aq and defence from courts today defence is the same as i have posted earlier in this thread does anyone know if i should write a covering letter to cobbetts explaining that i feel they have all the information they require .if so should i senda copy to the courts aswell. i do not want to change my particulars of claim as it is the template from this site i used and has all the relivant info on it .i think they are just trying to scare me.has anyone got a good example of a letter i could send to them.

thanks pls help

[exmonkey]

pls can anyone help me with this

[exmonkey]

pls anyone

[exmonkey]

help

[BankFodder]

What happened to the judgment which you applied for?

[exmonkey]

the courts have been that snowed unde that it hasn't happenend yet and looking at the date of the defence which is the 20th of sept they got their defence in on time it's just been stuck in the system to

[exmonkey]

i found this on the site about 1am this morning what do you think should i send it.

1. The Claimant has the following account with the Defendant:

a) Account no. xxxxxxx sort code xxxxxxx (“the Account”);

b) During the last 6 years the Defendant automatically debited charges to the Account in the sum of £xxxxxxx

Full details of each and every charge applied to the accounts are already in the possession of the Defendant, from whom the Claimant obtained such information prior to this claim. However details of all charges, the amounts, dates debited and a description of each is attached to this Particulars of Claim.

3. a) The charges are punitive in nature; are not a genuine pre-estimate of cost incurred by the Defendant; exceed alleged actual loss to the Defendant; and instead unduly enrich the Defendant which applies charges with a view to profit.

b) The contractual provision that permits the Defendant to levy such charges is unenforceable by virtue of i) the The Unfair Terms In Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 particularly but not limited to Regulations 5, 6 and 8 and Schedule 2, 1 e) and ii); the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977, particularly but not limited to sections 3 and 11 and Schedule 2 and iii) the common law relating to liquidated damages and penalties in contracts.

4, a) The Claimant is unable to specifically plead the term of his contract with the Defendant upon which the Defendant relies in levying charges since the Claimant has never been provided with the Defendant’s Terms and Conditions for personal banking. However the Claimant is able to note from the Defendant’s website that it has produced standard terms and conditions for the Account, known as Personal Banking Terms and Conditions, (“the Personal Terms”). Copies of the Personal Terms have been supplied to the Defendant and will be referred to by the Claimant at the trial of his claim.

The Personal Terms contain provisions which are, as far as the Claimant is able to identify, the contractual terms upon which the Defendant relies in levying charges to the accounts. The Personal Terms do not contain numbered paragraphs that can be easily referred to and the Claimant therefore sets out the relevant terms below:

From the Personal Terms:

“Service charges

Service charges for operating the account are charged as detailed in the promotional leaflet insert relating to the account and are subject to annual review. If any changes are made, details of the revised charges will be sent to you at least one month before the implementation date for the changes.

Additional services and charges

We are entitled to charge for additional services provided to you, whether these relate directly to the account or not. The current charges for the most common additional services are detailed in a separate leaflet ‘A guide to Personal Current Account Fees’ available from any of our branches; details of services not included are also available from any branch. These additional charges, which are normally paid for at the time the service is provided, are subject to annual review. If any changes are made, a revised price list of the most common services will be sent to you at least 30 days prior to the date of their implementation. “

The Personal Terms contains the following provision relating to operations on the account.

“Operations on the Account

You must always ensure that the cleared balance (plus, where applicable, any unused agreed overdraft facility) on your account at 3.30pm on the working weekday before the day:

– cheques you have issued are presented for payment

– standing orders and direct debits are due to be paid

– you withdraw money from a cash machine

– you carry out a Switch/Maestro or Solo transaction

– you request us to make payments by any electronic means or by telephone

– any other transactions are due to take place, including the application of interest and charges

is sufficient to cover payment of all these transactions.

If a sufficient cleared balance (plus, where applicable, any unused arranged overdraft facility) to cover payment is not available on your account by 3.30pm on the working weekday before the day on which these transactions are due to take place, payment of some or all of the transactions may be refused.

However, if at any time such transactions would result, without prior arrangement, in the account being overdrawn or the arranged overdraft limit being exceeded, we may exercise our sole discretion and without contacting you, allow an overdraft to be created or allow the borrowing limit to be exceeded. In these circumstances, the new or excess overdraft is an unarranged overdraft.”

b) The Claimant contends that the term “Additional Services and Charges” is not a core term of the contract and therefore falls within the remit of The Unfair Terms In Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 and that the term is subject to the Unfair Contract Terms Act and the common law as set out in paragraph 3b) of this Particulars of Claim.

c) The Claimant avers that the circumstances giving rise to the levying of charges by the Defendant are all breaches of the provision relating to Operations on the Account and which sets out a mandatory requirement in respect of the maintaining by the Claimant of cleared balances on the accounts. As such failure to adhere to that contractual requirement is a breach of the agreement between the Claimant and the Defendant.

d) The Claimant further contends that the Defendant is only entitled to be compensated by the amount it would be able to secure in a claim at common law in the event that the Claimant was individually sued for breach of contract by the Defendant. Accordingly the charges that result from the breaches are by their nature as set out in paragraph 3a) of this Particulars of Claim and are therefore unreasonable and/or unenforceable and/or in terrorum in respect of each and every occasion that they have been debited to all of the Claimant’s accounts.

e) The Claimant avers that the Provisions relating to “Service Charges and “Additional Services and Charges” provide no details whatever of the extent or type of services that might be provided and that it was not clear from the contract to the Claimant at the time the contract was made that the Defendant would be providing anything other than a free banking service. Further, the leaflets setting out charges referred to therein were not made available to the Claimant at the time the contract with the Defendant was made and are therefore not incorporated into the contract. To the extent that they may be found to be so incorporated and therefore form part of the contract between the Claimant and the Defendant the Claimant avers that the items referred to in such leaflets do not constitute service charges but punitive penalty or default charges for acts of default. Further the Claimant contends that these show that the Defendant has structured the Claimant’s accounts in order to present events of default spuriously as additional services for which a charge may be made and that any purported fees for “services” or “additional services” are no more than disguised penalties. The Claimant avers that no additional services are supplied by the Defendant in relation to acts of default or at all.

f) The Claimant further avers that the sole discretion referred to in the provision relating to Operations on the Account does not refer to or make clear that the Defendant is providing an additional banking service to the Claimant in exercising that discretion, nor that a charge for such alleged “service” will be made. The Claimant also contends that the discretion referred to is limited to allowing payments to be made where insufficient funds are or were in the Account and therefore relates only to the Defendant’s “paid referral fee” and that this discretion has no connection with fees applied immediately for refusing payments or for unarranged borrowing/excess borrowing fees applied later to the Account for being overdrawn or exceeding any overdraft limit in the preceding month, card misuse fees or other fees.

5. a) To the extent that it is found that the Defendant’s charges are for the provision of banking services the Claimant contends that the price thereof is unreasonable pursuant to section 15 of the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982.

6. Accordingly the Claimant claims:

a) the return of the amounts debited to all the Claimant’s accounts in the sum of £xxxxxxx;

b) Court costs;

c) Interest at 8% per annum pursuant to section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984 on the charges debited to the Account in the sum of £xxxxxxx and continuing at the daily rate of £xxp until judgment or sooner payment

I believe the facts stated in this Additional Particulars of Claim are true

Signed…………………………………….

Claimant

Dated this xxth day of xxx 2006

[BankFodder]

If you haven't been allocated to the fast track then simply send them another copy of your schedule of charges. Make it clear to them that you know that they are wasting your time as you have already sent them one on XXXdate and XX date (I hope that you have).

Tell them that if the case is gfast tracked then you will send them a full part 18 reply.

 

Don't be too wordy. Be abrupt.

 

They really only are doing this because they know that it puts you off.

Send a copy of your letter to the court as well so they know what style of litigation you are having to deal with

[exmonkey]

thanks for the advice and yes they have had several copies of the schedule of charges. iv'e followed all the step by step onstructions and used all the templates off this fab site .

thanks again for everyones help

[exmonkey]

received an offer this morning of £1800 on my claim of £3500 just about to pen a thanks but no thanks letter . i never thought i'd get this far.

[katesage]

well done monkey. it feels good to get to this stage.

 

loads of luck getting to the next and hopefully final stage.

[Shelty]

Hi Monkey, I got an offer this morning aswell. Have you had your AQ, as I'm not sure about completing section G....I wondered what you had put ?

[exmonkey]

i just put that i felt they hadall the information to proceed with this case

[exmonkey]

this is the letter i am sending to cobbetts any comments welcome

Dear Sir or Madam

 

 

Your Client:National Westminster Bank plc

Claim No: xxxxxxx

 

 

I acknowledge and refer to your letter dated 25 October.

 

 

I respectfully decline your offer of £1,800 and request, once again, that you return to me all charges imposed to me on this account, interest and court fees, now totalling £3,582.40.

 

 

I will accept the sum offered only as part settlement and only on the clear understanding that I will pursue recovery of the remainder.

 

 

I would be willing to withdraw the claim upon receipt of fullsettlement of my claim. I would be willing to waive the £197 accrued in charges that have been applied to my account since the start of these proceedings.

This offer will remain open for 7 days until Friday 3 November 2006 .After which time i shall proceed in court with this claim and start a further claim for £197.

 

 

I trust this clarifies my position.

 

 

Yours faithfully

exmonkey

[exmonkey]

just thought i'd give them a 7 day deadline like they gave me